fred johnson

Your examples are strongly biased. The kid doesn't even know there is an issue. It's the adults. The question is not who the scout is blaming as much as do the scouts create further hardship based on an issue from over a year earlier. IMHO, it's more a lesson about taking care of others. Loyalty. Courteous. Trustworthy.

BSA ... Actually, no. It depends. Our role as leaders is NOT to be a gatekeeper or to keep an accountant keeping a spreadsheet. It's about teaching life lessons. Here we have a scout in a bad situation. It is absolutely wrong to say "too bad ... ya got to start over". The right thing is to look back and now say "how to we make the situation whole?". Having a scout as for a Life BOR and respond by saying whooops we made a mistake, ya need to start over. That would be the absolute worst response. As for the 11 year old scout, there may not be anything that must be done.

The trouble is once the council registered him and the troop accepted him, he was eligible to earn advancement. The mistake was accepting him as a boy scout. That was the mistake. The original poster never discussed cheapening the requirements or lowering expectations. I was just reminded that the scout wants a Life BOR when he's 11 years old. To be honest, that's fine. PORs and Active require four and six months. That's 10 months. The scout was eligible at 10 years old. So there is no need to delay. IMHO, confirm with council. Focus little on the issue. Focus on providing learning and growing experiences. Get the kid out doing things.

I wish you the best. I agree. I don't think there is a way for a useful, meaningful "do over". Most things are a fresh learning experience only the first time. Plus, we don't penalize scouts for mistakes by the adults. My only recommendation is to make sure the timeline is long enough between the scout turning 10 (minimum eligible) and earning Eagle.

Our district EBORs are scheduled on-demand, usually one to two weeks after their paperwork is cleared at the council for an EBOR. On the night of their EBOR, usually there are three EBORs. 6pm, 7pm and 8pm. The EBOR are run by one main district rep who invites troop leaders of other troops to participate. Judgement is a bad view of the EBOR role. Confirmation is a more appropriate term. Scouts earn the rank. Once the project paperwork is signed by the scoutmaster and beneficiary, it's a good project. Merit badges signed are completed requirements. Scoutmaster signing off on Eagle paperwork indicates completed PORs. Unless there is some blatant issue, the scout will pass. I've sat on a good number of these EBORs. It's a nice view of how other troops run things.

My citizenship merit badge ideas ... Tour. Be active. Do something special. Take advantage of any historic or appropriate item in town. No power point presentations or the absolute minimum possible ... Scouts get that enough everywhere else. No class room. Best ever citizenship merit badge session was sitting on a bench at a scout camp. Citizenship merit badges have the advantage of being the simplest badges but also the most boring because scouts cover these topics really well in school. As such, I think our coverage is light weight at best. IMHO, the best away to make the citizenship badges memorable (aka not a waste of time) is by doing something special. My favorite is touring a national historic landmark that I was qualified to give tours of as a tour guide (the real tour guides smiled at me as we know each other). I'd give scouts tours and work in the topics of the badge. Then, sit on the front steps covering remaining topics while having a snack. Sometimes it worked out well. Other times, it was just okay. But it was always memorable.

Yeah, I don't really understand how Troop Guides would work with new scouts assigned into all the other patrols. Unless Troop Guides work "one on one", the result is pulling scouts from their patrol for troop guide instruction. IMHO, that's bad as the whole idea of a patrol is a set of kids who camp, play, work and do things together. If scouts leave a patrol for Troop Guide time or instruction time, then it defeats the purpose of the patrol. The only way I see mixed patrols working is if the patrol takes responsibility for training the new scout. Then, "Troop Guides" end up having no job.

Our troop has had NSP as long as I've been involved. It works smooth and the scouts seem to like it. Also, it's seems less about a "NSP" and more about trying to get the scouts to form groups of friends they will be close to for the next 5 to 7 years.

You're right. You as scoutmaster can work with the scouts to game the system and implement your own program. It's interesting that we are in a program to teach character and leadership and you're talking about how to get around the rules to create your own. Wow ... The quotes were right from documents that we as leaders use with our scouts. The Patrol Leader Handbook. The Senior Patrol Leader Handbook. We've provided the SPL a copy of his handbook and the PLs can share the troop copy of the patrol leader handbook. As for your request for references ... It was announced in 2009 with the new version of the handbook. http://scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/new-boy-scout-handbook-is-21st-century-guide-for-life/ .... "For the first time, the printed Handbook is accompanied by an online site,www.bsahandbook.org, which contains expanded content and illustrations on handbook topics and advancement requirements." http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2009/08/13/the-bsa-handbook-goes-digital/ ... "... the official Web site of the Boy Scout Handbook."

Eagle BOR's are not special. We are discussing EBORs because there is no risk with lower level BORs unless your troop has a troop BOR member who doesn't agree with the troop's alternative implementation. EBORs are just where the issue can become a show stopper.

Agreed. That is what I have seen too. And I agree, it's not the scout's fault in this type of situation and I am sure the district representatives will try to make the situation whole. Depending on the situation, one of many resolutions can occur including asking the scout to complete the position or getting a waiver if the scout does not have time left. But, it can be an issue.

We're getting into deeper semantics. ... but the quote right above your post lays it out. The following leadership positions count toward Boy Scout advancement. For more information, see the Senior Patrol Leader Handbook (#32501) and Patrol Leader Handbook (#32502A). Scribe - The scribe is the troop’s secretary. Though not a voting member, he attends meetings of the patrol leaders’ council and keeps a record of the discussions. He cooperates with the patrol scribes to record attendance and dues payments at troop meetings and to maintain troop advancement records. A member of the troop committee may assist him with his work. None of this is new. It's how BSA laid it out a long time ago.

I agree with your frustration, but that's the BSA structure. Just be careful with the Eagle rank as that is visible during the EBOR.

WWW.BSAHANDBOOK.ORG is BSA's online presentation of the boy scout handbook. They've been growing it for a while and the PDF file was BSA authored and published.

There is no problem with multiple in each position. The issue is when it is solely patrol focused. It would be especially an issue if like SPL appointing Scribe and librarian, the patrol leader appointed the patrol scribe and patrol librarian. There is no credit for patrol level positions lower than PL.

Socialism. Meh. Pick a fight elsewhere. The issue is some books are big profit centers (Boy scout handbook, cub scout rank books). Some books are around break even after you adjust for cost of shelf space and all the paper BSA throws away when the versions are updated. Even then, we're already paying for the books through dues and other fund raising. Cost to update and publish a new online PDF document version is fast, easy, cheap and very cost effective. Cost to publish a physical paper document stocked in 100s, if not 1000+, scout stores is extremely expensive, takes a lot of time, coordination and causes lots of waste when the old versions have to be thrown away. Even more important, we'll have a better program by making the leader materials as easily accessible as possible. We want the absolute best leaders possible. To get there, we want the materials readily accessible so when leaders are driven to learn, they can grab it right away and start. Not wait a week or or a month or so until they are at a scout store ... when the spark to dig in and learn is gone.

Stosh, Hedgehog and others ... You can manipulate wording as you want. You can run your troop as you want. Just remember to coach your scouts for their EBOR when the district representative is present and/or the scout is in front of a complete district run EBOR. If your scout says his patrol leader appointed him or his patrol voted him to be quarter master for the patrol ... or even if his troop assigned him as librarian for the dragon patrol ... be warned ... I know many ... if not most ... district advancement chairs that would not approve the Eagle rank as the scout did not explicitly complete the Eagle rank requirements as intended by BSA. It's just that it's explicitly against how BSA defines the positions. BSA's own publications explicitly identify "troop" for librarian, historian, quartermaster, instructor and scribe. http://www.bsahandbook.org/PDFs/troop.pdf The only patrol level POR that counts is patrol leader. If the scouts say they were XXX for the XXX patrol, it will often become an issue in their EBOR. If a scout said he was the Eagle patrol quartermaster that coordinated the Eagle patrol needs to the troop quartermaster or the senior quartermaster, then even if you word smith it as "troop quartermaster assigned to the Eagle patrol", it will be an issue. As a BSA leader, we are guided by BSA's words. I just get concerned when our practices don't match BSA's words.

I agree on the binding discussion. I just get frustrated. I am betting of the scout units in our council, less than 10% of the troop leaders have bothered to get the old or new troop leader handbooks / guides. I am betting less than 5% read them. As for the new books, I doubt anyone will notice any of the updates as the books just won't be read in much detail. BSA SHOULD PUBLISH THE ADULT LEADER GUIDES (troop leader, committee, charter org) as PDFs ... ONLINE ... and ... FOR FREE. I've seen many people throw around quotes from the GTA now that it's easily accessible. We can whip it open at any time. I know many parents that even open it. Same to Guide To Safe Scouting. IMHO, the program would be better and BSA would save money if they just made these books available ONLINE and FOR FREE. It should NOT be a profit center or even a break even center. Only books that should be published and expected to be bought is the Boy Scout Handbooks ... and maybe .. the Cub Scout rank books (maybe).

You must have an interesting council and an interesting district. 40'ish units. I can believe that. It would be a large district, but not unreasonably large. But usually in a district, some units are thriving and some are on life support. Eagle averages ... 25% with 12+ ... top 50% with 9+ ... remaining 25% with 5-8. Doesn't add up. If top 50% have 9 per year, then that would also include the 25% that have 12+ per year. Another 25% have 5-8. So either 25% are missing or the "top 50%" is the "middle 50%". If units are having an average of 9 Eagles leading to 360 candidates, then each unit would need to recruit 20 scouts a year and each of your 40 units would need to be 60+ scouts in size and the average age of Eagle would need to be about 13 or 14. Given as Baden Powell said, the ideal troop size is 32 and I often see troops of 10 to 20 scouts and troops of 50+ are the unusual, I just don't buy the numbers. Maybe your district is unusually successful. But our district has 70 to 80 Eagles a year and we are a large district with an above average rate of Eagles. Even then, it averages to about 1.65 eagles per troop per year. Heck, there just arn't enough PORs in a troop to successfully produce 9+ eagles a year ... year after year. But then again, maybe your district is unusual. ... Now if you said "council", I could believe it as some councils are much smaller and effectively a very big district.

Advancement ... Be careful. ... Though it will rarely blow up as an issue as lower rank BORs are not audited; ... except patrol leader, ... patrol level PORs do not count for rank advancement. I'd hate to see a scout sit before an EBOR and some POR question reveals it was a patrol POR instead of a troop POR. It would be a stopping point.

I bet your numbers are off. We are a very large district and we have 70 to 80 total EBORs a year. Some troops have 5+. Most have 1 or 2.

Wow. I wish all questions were as thoughtful as this one. I applaud you on your wanting to do what is right. I am similar to Stosh and others. Wear the uniform and epaulet color that reflects the reason you are attending. If you are a volunteer in the unit, wear the unit colors. If you are attending to represent the council, wear those. I've seen the reverse and it causes friction. Example --> A unit committee member who helps at the district or council wears silver epaulets with the intention to use the credibility from that role to get more influence in his unit. Sometimes when that happens, the volunteer has an agenda that is unhealthy for volunteering in the troop. When in doubt, be humble.

... So ... it's been a week or so ... what did the council say to do to handle the situation?

Very good. I like it and think it is a good idea. ... In our district, there are no magic words. I've sat on alot of EBORs. Some scoutmasters say words. Some just say HI and sit down in the back and let the scout start his EBOR. I just like the scoutmaster saying some kind words as a way to set a friendly tone for the EBOR. Only difference in our district is the unit leader sits in the back of the room. They don't leave the room unless they are the parent too ... at which point hopefully a different unit leader attends. Also, all our EBORs are district EBORs. They are schedule on-demand usually two weeks after the council approves the paperwork for an EBOR.

Okay. Makes sense. I've seen too many adults that clumsily jump in to get their way without getting making sure the scoutmaster and the other key adult leaders are on the same page and agreeing to go that direction. Without that scoutmaster buy-in, it can get ugly and you need to be careful to work without your bounds of influence. Otherwise, you can easily do more damage than good. Thanks for the clarification.