fred johnson

I couldn't wear a scout campaign hat. It would get destroyed too quick. Kids. Dogs. Camping. My current one is an eight year old Indiana Jones style hat, but it's semi-rigid with good airflow at the top. I can roll it up or flatten it and it pops back up. Love that hat. Multiple times it's been crushed in a backpack or dropped onto the bottom of a canoe. Last time I just dipped it in the river and squeezed it out. Great hat. ... Probably needs to be washed soon ... with soap. Seriously.

I've seen a few merit badge fairs that went well. Most don't, but a few did. - Metalworking merit badge done in a metal shop. Scouts bent metal and built tool boxes. - Photography was done with dozens of cameras and assembled a slide show - Archaeology done with experts at a local dig site. The big difference is making it worthwhile with something unique and special. I've begun to think merit badge fairs are not that much different than the normal situation except that dozens of scouts emphasizes bad counseling. I've begun to think MB fairs are really not worse. It's just more evident when scouts get little out of the merit badge ... except the merit badge.

I've talked with 100+ boys working on their Eagle rank. We've talked about their scouting career. Not a single one has mentioned anything interesting from Tiger. Only near comment is about Pinewood derby but then again they do that in their 1st grade, 2nd grade, 3rd grade, 4th grade and sometimes 5th grade. Beyond that, no significant impact.

BSA will kill the program with short term fixes by chasing numbers in a weaker part of the program that costs membership in the core program.

I've given that same advice. Heck, I had 15 years of Cub Scouts and now 12 years of Boy Scouts ... and counting ... It got to the point I looked for excuses to not sit through another pack meeting. I've given advice and I do recommend not starting until Wolf or even Bear. IMHO, you get full value out of the program by waiting until the Bear year. The big value is when scouts start to be old enough when they detach from their parents. If I had to do it again, my boys would join in 2nd or 3rd grade.

I agree with your statements. Scouts have plenty of hoops to jump. No need to add complexity. ... wow ... I agree with Stosh. ... long week.

I can accept that. Troops have traditions that work for them. IMHO, troops make what they decide they want to do either work or not work. In my working with many troops, I've seen more commonality in situation than difference. It's more deciding how to handle situations is where the difference and tradition come in.

Well said.

No as I said ... Sometimes ya just make a choice of how you want it to work and then you make it work. If your troop wants to make it work that way, fine. I am sure you can make it work the other way too. IMHO, this is more a matter of troop personality than a structural obstacle.

Yeah, people get funny when money is involved. I can sympathize with both sides. I lean toward the scout unit though as the CO usually doesn't help fundraising or managing the equipment or the budgets. As such, there is little involvement of those funds. But you are right it might leave a bad taste. On the flip side, the CO via their COR approved the unit leadership. As such, it is the CO's scout leaders who are making the best choices to support their scouts. Sometimes it is hard to find a win win ... especially given BSA's CO model ... owning the unit but rarely being involved. Approving the leaders, but not really knowing who they are. etc etc.

Agreed. The only slight difference is troop checking is often just a routing path. parents pay $$ for camping. Troop pays the camping expenses. But, you are probably still right. Under the lens of more strict financial accounting, it would be very questionable. ... being a business man though ... and knowing scouts are not often a focus of audits ... I'd still do it to protect the scouts money. But it would be difficult to defend.

Only real option. Dollars in bank are for that purpose. Prepay your summer camp bill. Pay "legitimate expenses". Route incoming dollars to a new account or to a new CO account.

... just text a few of the parent committee members to return early or stay late to get a BOR done. This is really not that hard of a thing.

I keep hearing "in a large troop" and I think it's bunk. Heck, if anything, most larger troops that I know have more adult volunteer leaders. Sometimes you just choose to make it work. Sometimes you look for excuses to defend the status quo. I've had the honor of being involved with four different troops. All great troops. The smallest was about fifteen scouts. The largest 60 scouts. There was virtually ALWAYS plenty of registered adult committee members present and if not almost always enough parent volunteers to make BORs happen and/or to cover for the scoutmaster if he was asked for a SMC. If there were not enough, we text a parent committee member who dropped off their scout to see if they could return 15 minutes before end of the meeting or stay late after the meeting. ... EBORS being a different beast ... Sometimes this issue is affected by how troops to SMCs and BORs. I've seen troops that do 30+ minutes SMCs. I've seen troops that do formal 40+ minute BORs. Our SMCs are a minimum of 10 minutes and up to 20 minutes. Our BORs average 15 to 20 minutes, never over 30 minutes. Heck, in the 60 person troops I've seen, you need to find a reason to keep adult leaders busy otherwise the committee members start interfering too much with the troop program. Sometimes ya just make a choice of how you want it to work and then you make it work. If you want to schedule BORs and SMCs, fine. Both can easily be made to work. It is much much more a matter of the personality of the troop than a structural obstacle.

Absolutely. But you only have so many leaders with only so much time. When the leaders are in year three or four ... or for those with 3 or more boys ... year ten or year twelve ... I challenge any pack to not repeat a drastic amount. - Pack meetings themselves are repetitive. A game. A song. Awards. Some program element (varied). ... I challenge you to attend 10+ years of cub scout meetings and not see them as anything but repetitive. - Blue and gold ... pinewood derby ... pack camp outs ... It is by definition repetitive. You can alternate ... pinewood derby becomes space regalia or sailing regatta. Still pretty much same thing. Boy Scouts suffer from this when you offer them year four of the fall district camporee. But boy scouts is easier to keep varied because it is much much less work for the adult leaders. .... If I had my say ... Cub scouts begins in 2nd grade ... an age where the boys begin to develop social interaction with each other and some independence from the parents.

Yeah, five+ years is too long. IMHO, this could only be good if councils took Lions and Tigers and ran it as a city wide council staffed program. Cubs should be 2nd grade where they can play with knives, fire, cooking, etc. Let the younger ones try soccer and then switch to Cub Scouts when they are more mature. #1 reason ... burn out ... people will drop out of scouting before trying the most useful and satisfactory program ... boy scouts

Fully agree. Everything we do teaches our scouts lessons. Being responsive to the scouts teaches a strong lesson about helping others and putting people before processes.

Use this exception that gives you flexibility. From BSA GTA ... 8.0.2.0 Particulars for Tenderfoot Through Life Ranks (or Palms) The preceding applies to boards of review for all Boy Scouting ranks, but there are a few differences for the ranks other than Eagle, and for Eagle Palms: 1. The board is made up of three to six unit committee members—no more and no less. In units with fewer than three registered committee members available to serve, it is permissible to use knowledgeable parents (not those of the candidate) or other adults (registered or not) who are at least 21 years of age and who understand Boy Scouting’s aims. Using unregistered adults for boards of review must be the exception, not the rule.

Patients is taught working to learn and complete the hundreds of individual requirements. Getting them checked off and completed. BORs are about recognizing accomplishments. I see no reason to justify delays to congratulate the scout.

Sorry ... There is what BSA teaches and there is what many troops do. It can be drastically different.

You are dealing with the quirks of internal troop relationships and people controlling their turf. Beyond that ... Everything we do teaches lessons. Flexible or inflexible. Process or person oriented. I don't care for the lesson your troop is teaching, but others could justify it. Beyond that ... In our troop ... All ranks ... Our SMCs (for any rank) are on demand, if the scoutmaster has time. Otherwise as soon as possible, given coordination between the scout and the scoutmaster. Troop BORs (not EBORs) ... are on-demand. Usually, as the scoutmaster goes to do the SMC, the scoutmaster asks the CC or the adv chair to prepare for a BOR. Hopefully, we can do it that night. If not, then as soon as possible EBORs ... are usually one to two weeks ... sometimes three ... after the council approves the paperwork. They are scheduled usually a Mon, Tue, Wed or Thu night. Usually there are multiple that night, but not required. ... Not finishing a BOR (any of them) quickly affects advancement and teaches lessons. Plus, BORs are not a scout requirement. They area a process step to make sure the troop is doing a good job and to encourage a scout to continue. As such, IMHO BORs should never be delayed.

Calling it such is not useful and escalates a bad situation. We teach our scouts how to work together. A key part of that is "civility". Escalating from calling it ignornace to incompetance serves no purpose and moves toward a non-recoverable situation where people have to be thrown away. That's not scouts. As my son's recruiter said, "Attitude is everything".

Time for me to back out. People are losing their grip on reality.

There is a huge difference between breaking the rules and a screw up by everyone involved. People need to stop inferring the scout or anyone else was dishonest.

You are reading dishonesty into it. The original poster has multiple times said no one was trying to deceive. It was a mistake by everyone involved. To start from a question of dishonesty is to do another injustice to the scout.