Eamonn

As others have pointed out, the James E. West award is for a donation of at least $1,000.00 to the Council Endowment Fund. The donation of $5,000.00 could be given in five lots of a thousand dollars. Along with the knot, comes a very nice certificate that looks great in a frame. While the money does have to go into the fund and can not go into a units funds, the award can be given in the name or names of just about anyone. The company that is donating the money might want an award in the name of the company (Joe's Dry Cleaning Inc.) One award in the name of the the owner (Joe Smith) one award in the name of his wife and so on. I have in the past arranged for a James E. West in the name of a Lad who attended the 2001 Jamboree, but sadly died in a car accident. We presented the certificate to his mother and his name is on the James E. West plaque that hangs near the entrance of our Council Service Center. Have just looked over what was posted about the unit not getting the money! The award is for the donation to the Council Endowment Fund. Not for any other reason or purpose. So the unit should not ever see any of it! Whoever is making the donation needs to think and know what they are donating too? If they want to make a donation to the Chartering Organization with the money being earmarked for use by the unit, then clearly this donation doesn't fit into the criteria needed for a James E. West Award. The donation in fact has nothing to do with the Council or the BSA. It could be said that the donation is being made to the CO and if they want or have some way of recognizing donors? It would be up to them to do so. The CO could or might say that they need the donation! Maybe saying it would help offset the cost of having a Scouting unit. I don't think they would, but they could!! Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I always looked at the Charter as belonging to the CO. While the ideal charter presentation would take place at an event where everyone was there (Scout Sunday for a unit chartered by a church.) As we know not everything is always ideal. Still for a unit Chartered by a church, doing the presentation in the church with the unit members there would seem like the best idea. The Ship I serve is chartered by the local Elks, they wanted the Charter presentation done at a Elks board meeting, we took photos for the local newspaper and posted a few on the notice board inside the building. I'm not that keen on over the top ceremonies. A few words thanking the organization for their support and for a new unit maybe a bit of a sales pitch, going on about the values of the program that they are supporting. My thing was keeping it very simple and short. Ensuring it was covered by the local newspaper was a very important part, as this highlighted that there was a unit where it was and helped let the members of that organization know that they did play a part in local Scouting. Eamonn.

I really wasn't trying to be funny! It's the truth. Here is SW-PA there are a lot of small towns and communities that sprung up because of some local business. While I live just outside of our little town, it at one time had the first Rolling Mill in PA -least ways so I'm told. (Truth is I don't know what a Rolling Mill is or does!) Other small towns were built around coal mines, railway facilities, coke ovens or because they were close to one of our many rivers. A drive around some of these small towns can be very depressing. Many of the big old buildings; banks and churches have fallen into a state of disrepair, shops and stores are closed and boarded up. But it seems the Funeral homes must do well! They all seem to be well kept and doing OK. HWMBO Grandmother was a teacher at the Pittsburgh School of embalming, teaching hair and make up. Her Grandpa had been a butcher for the Company Store. I'm unsure which company but Frick was a big wig in our area (In fact where I live is where he kept the pit ponies. Some people say he treated the horses better than the workers! They opened one of the early Funeral homes. Her Dad went on to get his license. Sadly her Dad died before her Grand-pap and the business closed. They lived above the Funeral home. I t always seemed odd to me when we visited for holidays and birthdays having a dead body laid out downstairs. Eamonn (Not as odd as the transition from Butcher to Funeral Director!)

"I run ranges because I want the boys to have some fun. High fives as they enter, handshakes as they leave." Cubmaster Mike I have a long time ago!! Ran the BB Gun Range and the Archery Range at Cub Scout Day Camps (I took the training's needed which at that time were done in Council. I have not kept up to date with what is required today.) I have no problem what so ever with telling a Lad as he leaves the range "Well done or "Good Job". Somehow I don't ever see myself doing the high-five thing as they enter! For me that would kinda set the wrong tone! (If you get my meaning.) While of course we do what we do because we like kids and we enjoy seeing kids having fun and I agree that kids do have fun on the ranges But I have always thought that the lessons learned from participating in shooting sports do more than allow the Scouts to just have fun! I see them learning a lot about learning discipline, following commands, understanding commands and following orders. All these skills are needed by good leaders. I don't think anyone is saying that there is a need for the guy in charge to be yelling his head off. I do think the big lesson that everyone needs to understand is that there are times when messing around is OK and is acceptable, but there are times when it is totally unacceptable and on the range is a time when it is not acceptable. I'm willing to admit that having not been raised around firearms /weapons?? That maybe I'm not as comfortable as others are around them. I might add that I have been known to raise my voice when a Scout goes above deck without a PFD on! Kinda, sorta the same thing but different! Ea.

Have not played with one of these since 1999! The last old course I staffed. I always thought of it and called it a commando belt. We never used a dowel, just a thick twig which we cut to accommodate the rope. I really don't see myself ever trusting these for any sort of climbing and I'm only a little fellow. Eamonn.

OJ had dealt with a person who had been ejected from her car, one night when he was driving home. The person did die. Luckily, another car did stop to help and the Lady was an RN. (She had worked in the ER with my wife.) I have to admit that I get annoyed when I see the local firemen trying to direct traffic after an accident and at times I don't like the sense of humor that many EMT's and Paramedics seem to have. I suppose they need it to cover what they are really feeling? I do know that it's something that I think I'm not cut out for. Up until I moved across the big pond, I'd never seen a dead body. In England when I lived there all the funerals were closed caskets. Of course I had to marry into a family that were a family of Funeral Directors. Eamonn. Eamonn.

Have to own up to most times being willing to go with the old "Even a clock that isn't working is right twice a day". I have never been a member of a unit with a poor leader. So my dealings with poor leaders has come from my serving as a member of the District Committee. While of course you'd have to be blind not to notice what was and what wasn't going on. In most cases for whatever reason this poor leader (I'm not talking about Immoral or amoral) doesn't have a replacement lined up and the adults who do come on board, don't seem to hang around for long. From looking at charters from the past few years (Part of something I'm doing as Membership Chair.) I looked at the charters from some of the weaker units. Then I looked at the charter from the unit that has shown the biggest growth in the past five years. The units with the biggest growth were the unit that the guy who had been District Commissioner and who went on to become District Chairman belonged too. (He was listed on the Pack/Troop/Crew charters as being the Executive Officer.) It seems that if and when someone (Youth or adult) wasn't happy where they were at he invited them to join "His" Unit. I pointed this out to our now District Chairman and he became very upset, going on about how his wasn't what should happen and how this isn't how things should work! (He really doesn't have much time for the District Chairman who was asked to resign.) While I do see his point and see where he is coming from. I also see that chances are if these un-happy people weren't found a home, they more than lightly would have just quit. A good pal of mine tells how that when he was a Scout, a new SM came along who wasn't doing things as they ought or should have been done, so him and his brother quit Scouts. He didn't return until he was an adult and from what I see now has made it his quest to try and see that people do get the training's and do their best to do things "By the book". He sees poor leaders in a very dim light. As we know for the most part, District types can do very little about a poor leader. Sure we can offer all sorts of training's and support. But that's about it. SR540Beaver, As a rule the CD selects Quartermasters to take care of the food and the equipment. These guys do get to make a presentation and if they don't already have the third bead do get one. To be very honest working around food for a living, I'm not and really would not like to end up back in the kitchen on my days off. Kinda like a bus-man's holiday!! Eamonn.

It wasn't any accident that I opted to post this here and not in the area for political discussions. I did see the National Guard and the Coast Guard in some of the news coverage. However what impressed me was seeing the people of all ages working together filling and passing sand bags, trying to help their neighbors. Ea.

I really think that before anyone does anything (Not just with regard to this situation, but in just about anything.) We need to know what we are doing and at least have some idea of how to go about getting it done. Or "How to get there". From what has been posted, it seems clear that this Pack is in a bit of a mess. No one seems to know what or how a "Real Pack" works or should work. If I were the District Commissioner. I'd send in my best Cub Scout Commissioner to help them sort out the mess. I'd ask the District Training Team to try and offer user friendly training's ASAP. From wherever they were available. (Self-training via the net or by reading the BSA publications that are out there. As well as the traditional training's) Just moving people around to do jobs that they know little or nothing about is not going to fix what isn't working! Eamonn.

After all the news about greedy fat cats taking millions of dollars in bonuses. Seeing the tens of thousands of volunteers who went to fill sand bags and help in Fargo ND. I like to think that the ordinary, everyday people in this great country still have willing hands and do lead by the example that they set. Eamonn.

Many of us. - Me included! Don't know when the time to step-down or step aside is upon us. I was happy when my three year term serving as a District Chair. was over and looked forward to moving on and doing something else. I have the odd moan and groan that having served as a WB CD, that I'm no longer allowed to serve as a staff member. But I think that if I was allowed? I'd be an easy "Ask". That is to say that people who are serving as CD's would ask me and I'd more than lightly say yes. The end result would be that someone new with new ideas and a fresh outlook would be passed. The SM's in my area seem to have been around forever. We tend to look at anyone with only ten years in as being new!! We have a couple of guys, who while very nice fellows with many years in are just not very good and if he truth be told never have been very good and the chances of them ever changing are slim to none. (We have one Troop that manages to recharter each year, but when you look at the names on the charter they change from year to year and the membership never goes above ten Scouts.) The SM is a really nice fellow, has a WB, but couldn't organize a one car funeral. In the thread that this was taken from it was said that someone would step aside gracefully. I think this sounds great but I just don't see it happening. Of course we know that removing a leader is not an easy task and if asked we could talk about an alphabet of CO's, COR's, CC's, UC's and DE's that should and could get involved. But in a lot of cases the CO isn't involved, the COR is some poor soul who somehow ended up with his or her name on the charter. He or She hasn't attended any sort of a meeting in a very long time, the UC is so busy doing FOS presentations and Camp Promtions that he doesn't even know that he is assigned to that unit. The DC knows that if he gets too deeply involved that someone will get upset and before he can drive away the unit will be gone, along with his dreams of Quality District and promotion. This leaves the adults in the unit with a not so great leader with little choices. They can close their eyes, cross their fingers and pray that things will work out and get better. Or they can duke it out. Very often when this happens people take sides, people get hurt and even if one side wins, the result is that there isn't enough survivors left for the unit to carry on. My question (Yes there is one!!) is: Is a poor leader better than no leader? Ea.

I called HWMBO who was at work on my cell this past Friday to let her know I was going to stop in and see if my computer was fixed. She said that I might have a hard time as there was a fire in town and that OJ had been called out in his volunteer fireman role. I was of course saddened to hear that someones home was on fire and said a little prayer that OJ would be OK. Some little time later I heard that an elderly man had died in the fire. He was the father of a volunteer fireman who had served as Fire Chief. I knew the son, who had been the chief, he used to come into my restaurant. Him and HWMBO had grown up together and were very good friends. When HWMBO arrived home she was upset. I didn't know that her parents had when they were first married rented the house that had burnt down and her parents had been close to the guy who had died and his wife who had passed on several years back. I also didn't know that the guy who died in the fire had at one time served as ASM to my Father-In-Law. Troop 156 folded about 25 years back. My Father-In-Law died before OJ was born. The Ex-Fire-chief it seems wasn't a good swimmer and didn't make Eagle Scout. His father was in the early stages of Alzheimer's Disease and may have caused the fire. I didn't see OJ until late that night. When he came in he said that he'd been at a fire, I said that I knew. He went on to say that he had found the old man (He was 86). He was badly burned but had died from the smoke. This was OJ's first time having to deal with a dead fire victim and he was shaken up. I know we live in a very small town and everyone seems to know everyone and at times what we do touches the lives of others. There are still people in town who were members of Troop 156, but for the most part the Troop is just a memory. I don't think anyone will do any sort of Scout Service. I think I will send a donation to the Council in his name. At least that way it will be mentioned in the Council Newspaper and those who were around and live in other parts of the Council will know that he has passed. Eamonn.

From what you have posted, it seems to me that the pack has more problems than just a poor leader. It could be that the Unit Commissioner and the Cubmaster have maybe got to be a little too close (I mean as friends, nothing more!!) Give the District Commissioner a call and buy the Cub Scout Leader Book. If you do take on the Pack Committee Chair role? You might want to look at trying to organize the Pack along the guidelines set by the BSA. - Given half a chance they really do work. Eamonn.

I'm not that great of a gun lover. I'm not anti-gun. A lot of guys in the area where I live are into hunting and shooting. We do have at work at policy for Use of Force which includes the use of deadly force. I had to be trained in the policy and show proficiency in the use of firearms.(Along with chemical weapons and some other things!) I have got to know the guys who teach and instruct these courses. All are very nice people, all are what might be called ordinary family men. When not on the range we laugh, tell jokes and tease each other. However once on the range they are transformed into what seems to me to be "Drill Sergeant mode". While I know it's not the same, but if I'm following directions in my car or I'm lost, I turn the sound system down or off! I know that the music isn't going to make any difference one way or the other, if I'm lost, I'm lost!! I respect these guys and I'm thankful that they do care enough to put my safety and the safety of others above all else. So I really don't care if the guys on the range, when they are on the range are friendly or not. They have a job to do that requires them to remain focused and that is what they have to do. Eamonn.

Nike, I think I can and could see me using what I see as "Strong-arm" tactics,such as you describe if we weren't talking about volunteers. I don't know this Cubmaster, I have no idea what is and what isn't going on in her life. My feeling is that she needs some help and a lot of support. Tdcd, has posted that she is new and that there seems not to be an over abundance of willing adults. Eamonn

Hi & Welcome. With any luck, the Pack might have a Unit Commissioner? He or She is the person to talk with about, how things are going with the Pack. Sadly, there seems to be not enough people to fill all the Commissioner spots that need covered. You might want to find out who your Unit Commissioner is and have a chat with him or her. If a Commissioner isn't assigned to the Pack? Find out who your District Commissioner is and give him or her a call and chat with him. (Tell him that having a Unit Commissioner for the Pack at this time is very important.) You can more than lightly get his phone number from the Council Service Center. Or you might want to attend a District Cub Scout Round Table Meeting. In the meantime, the best thing is to look for ways to help the Cubmaster and support her as much as possible, keeping in mind that your doing this for that amazing group of boys. Maybe finding someone who might be willing to put out a Pack Newspaper or start a web page? Might help push her into getting information out a little sooner and kinda push her into becoming a little more organized? (Whatever happens try not to allow her to take this task on, she has enough on her plate.) Back when my son was a little fellow, I took on the Cubmaster role. I did so mainly because I seen it as being an easy job. The real work in Cub Scouting is done by the Den Leaders. There is a very good book The Cub Scout Leader Book (Costs $9.99) that does a great job of explaining things and who does what. If I were you I'd get a copy and share it with the Den Leaders. Very often Cub Scouts with a great Den Program can get by with not having the greatest Pack program. After all the Den meets every week and the Pack only meets once a month! Good Luck. Eamonn.

Wow a parent who has a Lad who is in Scouts and plays little league, will really be hurting!! Sorry John it was just too easy! Ea.

Keep your fingers crossed that gas doesn't go back to over four bucks a gallon. Ea.

BadenP Sorry if I came off sounding cranky. But .... (Hey you knew it was coming!!) The membership numbers contradict your argument. Most Crews are small. I wonder if we were to take out the "Let's pretend to be a Crew?" What the real numbers would be? The biggest "Crew" in our Council is the Summer Camp Staff Crew, which only exists to ensure that there is a place to place non-members who want to work at a BSA camp. Unlike many of the older adults who go on about Venturing, I have the luxury of having been in a Venturing program. Sure it was a lot different than what the BSA is offering, but never the less it was a coed program for older youth. It was as a Venture Scout I earned my Queen's Scout Award and the Duke of Edinburgh's Gold Award. Venture Scouts from the unit I was in traveled to Africa to work on development projects. I became proficient in teaching rock climbing and repelling. I worked with young children who were very severally physically handicapped. My point is that I kinda think that I know what the program can be. I kinda like to think that I have some idea where it could go. Sadly in most areas, especially the NE-Region Venturing has been abused and misused so much that it's almost a joke. Who is to blame for this? I wish the program had a little more structure, with choices built inside. So I'll point the finger at the guys who rushed to develop a program at a moments notice, but have never had the guts to say "Hey we messed up! Lets start over and try to get it right". Councils are to blame for allowing Quality Council to cloud their judgment and use Venturing as the way of cheating. Volunteers are to blame for not trying to develop a real program and allowing Crews to become little more than the guys who help out at District Camporees. I have seen wonderful Cub Scouter's go on to become wonderful Scoutmasters and I happen to think that good youth leaders are good youth leaders no matter which program area they choose to serve. Eamonn.

The "Use it or lose it" Budget item can be a real pain! We know if we don't use the money? Chances are that "They" will cut us next year or not ask us next year. I kinda think? Please correct me if I'm wrong that these good people want to be able to stand back and say we bought the Cub Scouts ... such and such an item. Of course I don't know what the Pack might need? But: A laptop computer? (Could be used for training's?) A sound system for out door and indoor pack meetings? Games equipment? Something that both the Pack and the CO might be able to use. (Basket Ball nets?) I think if you think outside of the box you might be able to come up with something? Ea Equipement that might enable you to invite physically challenged youth to your meetings?

"First of all Eamonn what you describe as Venturing in your council simply isn't." Man oh man!! Thank you for pointing out my confusion!! I have not been able to find the 2008 Membership Report. But in 2007 we have/had 254,259, in 19,920 Crews. So if my math is right? It could be said that the average Crew has about 13 youth members. (A little less) This to me sounds very much like "some sort of elite club, which venturing is not." ? Someone posted: "I do know and am very aware that there are some outstanding and wonderful Crews who follow great programs. They just don't seem to have reached the area where I live" Yes I remember!!! It was I!! I was the guy who posted that!! Let me see where I got so very confused? "Most (In fact all) of the Venturing Crews in the area where I live are led by people who were involved in Boy Scouting." Is this true or false? I know I'll ask someone who has, as far as I know never been to the area where I live!! I'm sure he will know exactly what is going on!! "The problem with many crews is that the adults do not let the teens have any control and try to run it like a troop" Oh well there goes the Boy Led Troop out with the bath water!! Eamonn.

Seen this was back and wondered why? Still wondering how we got to where we are at? Also wondering if I should go to Mass on Sunday? But now know why I'm a practicing Catholic. Seems I missed out on some of the stuff I kinda thought I knew. Ea.

Mafaking Your post made me smile. HWMBO has a girl friend who struggles every night with her son's homework. Her older son is soon to be 20 years old and doesn't have a driving license. The poor kid has to beg rides to get anyplace. He attends the local community college and his Dad drops him off on the days he has classes. Problem with that is that Dad drops him on his way to work at about 0700 and some days his first class isn't until noon. I don't think it's about money (Buying another car) As both parents have good jobs. I think she just doesn't trust the Lad. Ea.

"if you think you can get away with it, don't do it." I used to use: "Only the mugs get caught" The best way not to get caught, is not to do it, but if you are going to do it don't get caught. A few of my pals thought that this wasn't in keeping with the Oath and Law. When OJ was younger and with younger Scouts I used to use: STAR Stop Think Act Reflect. (Sad to say with the older Ship members this became "Don't be an idiot"!!) Eamonn.

Not trying to hijack the thread (Sorry John) But... Looking at the Ship, the Crews we do have and back when I was a Venture Scout in the UK. Starting the unit/Crew/Ship doesn't seem to be the problem. The problem seems to be that once a hard core group has been formed, they don't seem very keen about allowing new people into "Their" Group. A good many of the Sea Scout Skippers I have talked with have said that the Ship's they serve go from being strong for a few years and then have times when everyone leaves and they have to start over again. Ea.