Eamonn

No packsaddle, I really wasn't going after you. Just before posting a co-worker of HWMBO had visited. She really isn't a bad person, just a real pain in the you can guess where. She works in the ER with HWMBO. I know it's a tough job and that the people who work there have to deal with all sorts of people, a lot of times when people are not at their best. This woman seems to hate: Cell Phones. People who smoke along with any and everyone who doesn't have health insurance. Lord help the poor souls who don't meet her high standards and fail on all three levels. The reason for her visit was supposed to be to see how I was doing after having back surgery last week, but turned out to be more about me having to hear her rant on about how unfair it is that she has to pay a $100.00 co-payment to visit the ER, while "These people" come in with silly complaints, then disappear to talk on their cell phones and leave the hospital premises to smoke. She went on and on about the cost of cigarettes and cell phones. That was before she started on drug testing for everyone on welfare and having people that don't live up to her standards being made to pick up the trash along side of the road. I was a beaten little fellow when I posted my line about being pompous. I do know at times I can come off as sounding like a real pompous twit. I fail to even try and understand why anyone in their right mind would watch Fox News or the right wing talk shows. Sadly I have a boss who doesn't seem able to in any way form an opinion of his own and just seems happy to repeat word for word what he heard on the radio while driving too work. Trying to get him to admit that some of what he has heard is just entertainment is a waste of time, he is just too far gone. Ea.

I really haven't paid too much attention to the media coverage of "Birthers". But I did find it a little strange that in order for HWMBO and the Fruit to get American Passports they had to send in copies of their birth certificates. In the UK (At least when I was birthed) You got a certificate at birth.) Here in Pa you get a registration of birth and have to send away for a birth certificate. President Obama, might have ran into the same fuss had he been birthed here in Pa? Ea.

We missed the opportunity to join Tigers. Back then I think the Tiger uniform was a orange t-shirt? He joined Cub Scouts as a Wolf. We trotted to our local Scout Shop in the Council Service Center and bought him the shirt, the necker, the hat and the socks. We didn't buy the pants as the local K-Mart had pants that looked identical on sale at the time. The Shirt was a little on the big side. I could almost hear my Mother saying "You'll grow into it". As she said every time she bought me a new school uniform. The blue shirt saw a lot of wear. The Pack was very active. By the time he was half way through Webelos, the shirt was not only well worn but very tight. So we trotted off again to the Scout Shop and bought him the tan shirt and a pair of red and green socks and green shorts. Again the shirt was big on him. When the time came to cross over into Boy Scouts all we bought was the long pants. I lost count of how many shirts we ended up buying. I know we bought two for the 2001 Jamboree and maybe a couple for NOAC? I sent a couple of pair of shorts back when they began to have holes in them. While it took a little while, in the end we got two new pairs to replace them. I'm not sure how many pair of Scout socks he "Borrowed"? From my sock drawer. A lot of the uniforms were bought at a discount, when he was attending the National Jamborees and staffing JLTC. I was a bit of a pain when it came to him wearing full correct uniform. My thinking being that it made me look bad if my kid was seen in anything but full correct uniform. Even though the Troop he was in had said that uniform from the waist up was acceptable. As both a Cub Scout and Boy Scout, he was very active. As a Boy Scout his uniforms were part of Christmas and or birthday presents or he paid half and I paid the other half. For some unknown reason his feet seemed to grow at a much faster rate than the rest of him. Keeping him in shoes and boots cost me a lot more than I ever spent on uniforms. He was wearing Scout uniforms from he was about age 7 till he was 18. I'm guessing, but I think in all that time I only spent about $350.00 on uniforming. I spent a lot more than that on boots. Ea.

"They should all be natural born which should be defined as having both parents USA citizens prior to the birth of the candidate and that the birth occur on USA soil. That the candidates shall only have USA citizenship throughout their life and no other citizenship (i.e. dual citizenship is not allowed). Poppycock! Try telling my son that he isn't an American. I was born in London, England and have a real full certificate to prove it. I have lived here in the USA as a Resident Alien since 1984. His mother was born here in the USA, She holds an American passport, a certificate of her birth and a birth certificate, showing that she was born right here in PA. He was born here in Pa. Back in 1988, he holds an American passport, a certificate of his birth and a full birth certificate. He has been educated here in the USA, He sees himself as being 100% American. To try and place any barriers that would take away of his rights as an American citizen is just plain wrong.

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone. But... Seems to me that each and everyone of us has our own little list or lists of what everyone else can or should give up when times get rough. At times when we sound off about this we come off sounding very pompous. I know that there is a lot that I could do that not only would save me a few bucks but maybe might also help save the planet. I don't need to live in a big house and could save a lot of money by moving to a small apartment. I'd save a bundle on the taxes I pay. I'd save money not mowing the grass, not having to maintain the house. I don't need five cars. Especially one that is only getting about 14 mpg and two that run on premium gas. I could cut out all of the adult beverages, the cigarettes and the list could go on. The truth is that I'm not going to. In many ways I look at the stuff I own and things I do as my reward to myself for the hard work that I have done. While I am happy to join in any group moan and groan about the cost of things. I also know and am very aware that right now things are good for me. Both HWMBO and I are employed full time. While she earns a lot more than I do. We do OK. Our home is paid for. OJ has moved out. So for now things are good. This might change when we decide to retire? We have put aside a healthy amount and invested a lot for when that day comes. Still I don't know how much we are going to have to rely and pay others to do things that we can do for ourselves. I have friends who a few years back seemed to be doing OK. We'd meet them at the club for drinks and a meal after they had been playing golf. Their kids and my kid would have a great time playing in the pool. Today they no longer are members of the club, they have kids in college, have re-financed their home and drive cars that not so long ago they wouldn't have been seen dead in. Worse still is that I know a few couples that have also lost their jobs thanks to downsizing. These unfortunate people are more than lightly going to lose their homes. One fellow who was a manager for a local engineering company has just taken a part time job earing a little more than minimum wage at Lowe's. Five years ago I'll bet that he thought he had the world by the tail. While I agree that Scouting can be a inexpensive way of keeping children amused. Sure I'd sooner fork over a few hundred bucks to send a kid to summer camp than pay his way to Disney World for a week. But with the cost of everything going up, I'm not sure that a family with young children will budget for these activities? Ea.

Have to agree with Basementdweller. We are very fortunate living close to a few state parks along with great natural resources that tie in great with just about any Scouting activity you can think of. But I do see that a lot of families are going to cut back on unnecessary spending. While most of us can cut back on the amount of driving we do. What really hurts is the price of heating oil, which a lot of families in the area use. I normally fill my tank in the fall. Last year I bought 1,000 gals. It cost me almost $3,000. If the price continues to rise? This year it looks like it might cost me $6,000. I can see how and why people are cutting back. Ea.

Somehow when I wasn't looking my cable bill got way out of hand. When we first moved into where we now live I paid $9.25 a month for cable TV. Back then if I remember right I got 33 channels. We didn't have a computer, so of course we didn't need Internet service. We had Bell for the phone and the bill was a mishmash of charges for local calls, long distance calls and international calls. Fast forward 25 years and the cable bill was $171.85. This included phone, TV and Internet service. While there is no way of fairly comparing what was to what is, $171.85 seemed like a lot. My electric bill runs about $80.00 a month. Water bill is about $75.00 every three months. This meant that the biggest bill I have was my cable bill. This seemed silly. So I thought I'd change. Living out in the sticks, is my idea of Heaven, but when it comes to choice of providers of TV,phone and Internet there isn't much choice. I would have liked to go with FiOs,but that isn't available. So I went with a Verizon package. High speed Internet, phone and satellite TV. We seem to have several hundred TV channels, but half of these seem to show nothing but infomercials, lose weight, burn fat, chop food and shop till you drop. I will when I get the time learn how to program the remote so I don't have to search through all of them just to find that there is nothing worth watching anyway. Setting up the Internet was a real pain! I've been working at it for a couple of weeks! I tend to like things the way they were, so first was trying to get Outlook Express set up for the new provider. I followed the Step by Step instructions time and time again, but each time I restarted the computer it went back to a setting that wasn't going to work. Then there was the joy of trying to get the wifi to work. I wish someone had let me know that the new modem had a router installed in it! I tried every cable combination that I could. I used some very un-scout-like language. Called Verizon support twice. - They gave up and forwarded my call to Dell, who forwarded my call to Cisco. Who played music for 42 minutes while I was on hold and then cut me off. My lap tops informed me that there was networks available, but the Verizon wizard said that there wasn't. I "Chatted" with a live real person and someone who really isn't anyone? It was driving me nuts. Still this new package is going to save me $1,102.80 a year and I kept reminding myself how I was going to add this $1,102.80 to my Roth IRA. Saving this money kept me at it. Tonight HWMBO was busy catching up on the soap operas that she'd missed. I wanted to download a couple of books to my Kindle, but without having the WiFI set up, there was just no way. I'm going to have to spend a couple of days in the hospital, for yet another back surgery, so having the kindle set up and downloading the books was kinda important. Then something happened! I'm not sure what? You know when a Lad is trying to learn how to tie a knot and you have gone over it again and again. You have tried to show him from behind, involved rabbits, snakes and trees. Asked him to talk you through it and then for no reason known to man it just happens and he gets it. I don't know how, but I somehow got it! The Home network is now up and running, all four laptops, two desk-tops and the kindle are now connected to the WWW. I have enough stuff to read that will last me for several weeks. I'm very happy with myself. - I just wish I knew how the heck I got here. The sad news is that the package I have is only good for 24 months, after which time the price goes up, then I will have to choose if I'm willing to change back to cable or pay through the nose again. With my new found enthusiasms, I think when I get home I'll be ready to taken on the remote and who knows maybe even my cell phone. Eamonn

No one said that life was easy. runintherain you must do what you think is right. You post: " I still believe that to be against the rules of youth protection. Is that the case?" The answer is yes it is. If you feel that you must follow the policy? Then that's fine and dandy. But it kinda sounds to me like you know that this happened because it happened and maybe other than the SM being foolish, it's not really a big deal. You might decide to have a word with the Troop Committee and have them deal with it. If you don't trust the SM? I know if my son were in a Troop where I even slightly suspected that the adults were molesting or harming kids. My kid would be gone ASAP. When it comes down to doing what we think is right? That's why they pay us big boy wages! We have to make up our own mind. Ea.

"Eamonn Method" I like the sound of that! But I feel sure that I'll never get it past HWMBO! This horse is dead, it is no more, it is deceased.. No really I'm done! Ea.

"Am I missing something here?" Scoutfish, I think a big part of it is because you are "Here". Other than the odd twit. Most Scouter's are people who do what they do, because they enjoy kids and enjoy Scouting. Some years back there was a Forum Member who really did know his stuff. He came off seeming like a real book thumper and was very argumentative. He was around for a good number of years and it seemed like he was always at it with someone. He quoted from every book that was ever written on BSA policy. I keep most of my books and Scouting material in book cases and file cabinets down in an empty bay of the garage. I wore myself out running up and down the stairs checking to see if what he posted was on the up and up. He never failed me. Still at times it wasn't so much what he said it was more about the way he said it. I finally met up with this fellow at the 2005 Jamboree. He is a super nice guy and we got on like a house on fire. I feel sure if you were to meet the people who come off sounding stern and harsh that you would find that they really are OK and don't very often eat small children for breakfast. Ea

BadenP Much as I hate to keep flogging a dead horse. The camp employees a Business Manager to do the things you mention. While maybe in some Councils there is language in a DE's job description that covers working at camp? There isn't such language in the job description that we have in place. If we take the argument that "There isn't a lot to do"? Then I suppose it might be said that no time is a busy time. I really do think that the start of the new school year is in many ways the start or the re-start of the new Scouting year. Being ready and being prepared for this start is one of the most important times of the year and not having the DE around to attend to it? Just doesn't sit well with me. While most SE's are good people and straight arrows. (Butter wouldn't melt in their mouth!) There are some who would try and move the salary of the DE working at camp, into the camp budget. This would of course make it seem that the cost of running the camp is higher than it really might be and add fuel to the fire when it comes to setting a higher cost for the camper. Ea.

Can't help but feel that I need to address this! " you do not need three months to plan fall recruitment, events, and FOS if you have a decent district committee in place, and they all do their jobs, none of the districts in my council were ever left feeling abandoned. We met every other week when we would be relieved at camp for a few days so we could do district work. It sounds to me Eamonn you have some real issues with your own committee " During the ten years I was a member of the District Key 3 we failed to make Quality District one time. Because we were unable to recruit enough of the little fellows who wear the blue uniforms. The District Committee was one of the best I know of. The Committee members all worked in real jobs. I was self employed and did at times sneak off to attend to Scouting items that I thought were important. School Night in our area normally happens about the first or the second week in September. Even though the District is small, we cover 3 school districts. We have 5 private schools,and 18 elementary schools,6 junior high schools and 3 high schools. All 3 of the School District Superintendents were members of the District Membership Committee. With their help the kick off for School Night started with a luncheon for all the school principals. This was a working lunch where basic information was passed out, a review of what worked and what didn't work the past year was looked at, idea were exchanged to help improve the recruitment were made and specific problems were addressed. These problems sometimes were that the date for the Council wide night just wasn't a good fit for a school or a school district. The DE was in charge of making the reservation for the lunch, ensuring that the invites went out to the right people on time. Having any and all hand-outs prepared and of course attending the meal. The DE also made sure that all the materials for the school night were in place. This sounds easy, but along with the normal flyer's we have had Fun Bags for new Tigers, wrist bands, balloons and all sorts of junk. While the membership committee filled the bags and helped get this stuff ready. The DE who was working doing her job during school hours delivered all of it to the schools and met with the school secretary (Who really is the person who knows what is going on!) And the school janitors, who as a rule are the only people in the school at night and are the guys who make sure that the doors are open. The membership committee members couldn't do this because they were doing their real jobs during school hours! I'm having a little bit of a hard time grasping: " We met every other week when we would be relieved at camp for a few days so we could do district work." If you are going to take off for a few days every other week? It kinda sounds like the camp was able to run without you? I firmly believe that the work of a DE is in the District that they serve. It doesn't come to a halt just because school is out or because camp is in. Most DE's (Not all) at camp are about as useful as pockets in your underwear. They are not trained to work at camp, working as a camp commissioner or whatever is not why we pay them as well as we do. During the summer the DE's who serve the Districts in the Council, do go to camp one day each week to visit the Troops and Packs from their Districts to ensure that everything is OK and sometimes fix things that these Troops and Packs are not happy with. This quality assurance is important. It helps ensure that these units will hopefully return the next year. Being as the DE is not a member of the camp staff does mean that they are able to take an independent look at things that sometimes camp staff members just accept as being what they are. I should add that the DE I worked with was a female who wasn't hired until she was in her late 40's. Her only Scouting experiences were from having her son become an Eagle Scout. She wasn't a camper and her idea of the great outdoors was being on the golf course. She was by far the best DE we have ever had in the Council. She worked wonders with both the volunteers and the local community leaders. Nothing ever sat on her desk for long and together we made a great team. There was no way I was ever going to lose her for part of the year to walk around a Boy Scout Camp. Ea.

Kinda think that I might get a little messed up on this one. Most of us adults are willing to stand up and stick out our chests while claiming that we do live (Apply) the oath and law in our daily lives. This might be true? But most of us are so engaged in whatever it is we are doing that there really isn't time to be conscious of what drives us to do it. Kinda like being at work.The real reason most of us go to work is to get paid, but while we are doing our job we don't dwell on how much we are earning. We just go about doing what needs to be done and give it our best shot. There are times when we do go that extra mile, maybe because it's part of our make up that we always go the extra mile, sometimes because we enjoy that specific task, maybe because we want to please the person who asked us to do it? Sometimes we only do what is needed. This might be because we don't enjoy that task? Or we have an issue with who asked us to do it? Or maybe it's just the mood we are in at the time? Young children and young adults have a harder time than adults have with living up to expectations. Back when I was a little fellow it seems to me that most adults just wanted to impose their will upon me and there were consequences in place for when these expectations were not met. "Be a good boy and you get ice cream". "Be a bad boy and you go to bed early." For the most part this rule of consequence worked. Parents and other adults got the outcome that they required. There really wasn't any need for the young person to understand why he was doing what he'd been asked to do or in fact understand anything. He knew that by either doing it or not doing it, there was at the end of it some type of consequence. Be it good or bad. Rats and mice can be trained this way. Young children and young adults still growing, still in the developmental stage. While there are times when blind obedience is needed and is required. (I'm thinking about situations where not following the rule might harm the person not following the rule.) We as parents and as youth leaders should be thinking long term about the future development of the children we work with. We need to have some idea of the goals that we have for our children and be willing to share these goals with the child. Most of us want our kids to grow up to be happy, caring, loving individuals who can find a job in which they will be happy. The more the child understands the goals and is given ownership of them, the ore he is going to be willing to buy into them. I think that it is wrong to just take the Scout Law as a stand alone topic. It needs to be taken with the Scout Oath, so it is always the Oath and Law. The Scout Law by itself is set in stone, has no wriggle room and becomes almost impossible to live with. But when we add the Oath alongside it we see that the bar is set at "To do my best.." This "To do my best" leaves the door open for discussion. Which the Scout Law doesn't. Much as we might like the idea the expectation that "A Scout is.." All them fine things all the time is just unrealistic. Taken together the Oath an Law are a work in progress. A work that lasts a lifetime. None of us like to be nagged at or have someone keep on at us. Most teenagers really get upset when they feel that someone is always on their back and this situation is worsened when they might not understand the reasoning behind it all or feel that the reason has or is of no value to them. I can and do see how a Lad who is being bashed over the head all the time with "Your supposed to be a Scout but you do..." Will soon get fed up with it all and the easy way out? Is to just quit being a Scout! At least that would take away part of the stuff that is causing him pain. Rather than stressing the Scout Oath and Law, with my kid I tried to give him tools that would make things not as hard. We used the STAR for a number of years: Stop Think Act Reflect. I'm not sure how things go in other homes? But in ours, HWMBO mostly played the "Bad Cop". I think in part because OJ was more lightly to go to her first and ask or request something. At times they would argue like nobodies business. She would get mad and upset very often bring up past sins and not dealing with whatever the situation at hand was and then when she got mad enough she passed him on to me. I'm very lazy. I really can't be bothered with fighting or allowing myself to become upset. I also tend at times to not be as flexible as maybe I should or could be. He knew and knows that when I say no or something that that's the way it is. Now he is older (going on 23) He is far closer to his mother than he is with me. He seems happy to go to her and share things with her, than me. I do sometimes resent this, but am willing to accept that this is the way it is. Maybe if we'd had a daughter? Things might be different. Ea.

Talk about Southern hospitality, two of the Sea Scouts (One male, one female.) were so taken with it that they returned to work on staff for the following two summers. The girl worked last summer at our Council Summer camp as the Water Front Director. She is a super nice kid. The Lad is waiting to get into the Marines. Ea.

Thanks for the update Pint. Back in the very late 1970's. I was taking a group of Scouts from London over to Kandersteg, by train. We had about 60 Scouts, mostly little fellows under 15. We had booked sleeping carriages. As had a Girl Guide Troop from some part of England. Back then I was very full of myself. I had long hair and didn't like the cut of the English official scout pants, so I had a pair made with flared legs. I thought I was really cool! This Girl Guide Leader was about 60, a portly woman with big breasts. She looked like she might have been a prison warden in her navy blue two piece uniform. She must have thought that the Scouts were going to do a little rape and pillage during the night ! She cornered me and laid out the rules as to where my Scouts would go and not go, what bathroom they would use and not use. Along with a long list of other demands. I as a rule am not one to suffer in silence, but this woman had a bigger mustache than I had and she really put the fear of god into me. She must have put the fear of something into her Girl Guides. We were on the train for about 18 hours and I never seen one of them. Ea.

For a goodly number of years our Assistant Scout Executive, who has been with the Council for a very long time. (He was here in 1977, when I first came over, was gone for a couple of years and then returned.)Has worked as Reservation Director. Keeping an eye on both the Cub Scout camp and the Boy Scout camp. He is well known and well liked and does know what he is doing. So that is OK by me. I did make a big fuss when I was District Chairman and some twit (SE) thought he was going to take away my DE for the summer. I was not going to allow that to happen. We are busy over the summer. The big recruiting for the year is done in early September. The program material and popcorn information is given out to the units in August. The dinner I held for the Community FOS Captains was also in August and we had training's for both Cub Scouter's and Boy Scouter's in the planning stage. Taking away a DE to do what someone else could do for less than $10.00 an hour was just silly. I took this to our Executive Board and they agreed with me. It makes no sense to have someone who is earning almost $40k do a camp job. Maybe that's why they are District Executives? I kept my DE close to home and together we reached our goals. Eamonn.

Yes, that is a little far! Did spend a great week a few summers ago in your neck of the woods Sea Kayaking just outside of Savannah. Made the mistake of saying that I didn't like grits Arrived home with packs of grits hidden all through the trunk of my car. A super week, we met up with a Troop from Atlanta. I think my Sea Scouts about drove them crazy with their non-stop singing! I think it was the first time the adults had been exposed to having female Scouts mix with Boy Scouts. Even change does happen down South! Good luck with the project. Ea. (Had a low country broil?? A mix of shrimp, corn potatoes and some kind of sausage -Beats the heck outta grits!)

"I'd be cautious about telling another parent out of the blue that they need to improve their parenting skills. It's possible they may be thinking the same thing about you" Sad thing is that they might be right! Things you might hear or might have heard in our home. HWMBO: "Boys are washable!" Me: "Don't be a lazy little toad" HWMBO: "Of course OJ would love to help, just wait till I tell him." Me singing very loud and off key "Rise and shine and give God your glory, glory ..." (Best time to sing is very early. HWMBO: "Sure you can go, I'll help you pay half by finding you some little jobs you can do around the house." Me: "Of course I'll catch you if you fall." If this doesn't sound like child abuse? Ea. I left out the 101 times I've used the "When I was your age.." speech

Hi, I have been playing with Pioneer projects for a long time (over 40 years!) Even though I might say it myself, I'm good at it! To-date I have never seen a Ferris wheel, have seen and made a few Roundabouts. Making a model ferris wheel wouldn't be that hard, but one that would really do the job? Could be done, but I'd be worried about having Scouts take rides on it. For a long time there was a group in the UK led by Rex Hazelworth, who met at Gilwell Park and played around with different projects. One of the younger members of this group was John Thurman He has written a really great book on Scout Pioneering titled Patrol Pioneering. It was first published sometime around 1958 and was reprinted up until about 1975. I have a 1958 copy. Now and then it comes up on eBay. It might be on the "Dump" a site that often has great old type handbooks and Scouting type books. John Sweet is my favorite writer when it comes to books about Pioneering he has written: Scout Pioneering and Pioneering in Town and Country both a very good. They used to be available from the Boy Scouts of Canada and do sometimes pop up on eBay and Amazon for sale by private sellers. John Thurman also wrote "Fun With Ropes & Spars". Another great book. You don't say what part of the country you are in? If you are within driving distance from Pittsburgh (Say 300 miles or so) I'd be willing to drive down and work with any Scouts who are really interested in building a few projects. They would of course need to know the basic knots and lashings before hand. Eamonn.

No I have never been that bold. I have had Scouts with parents that I thought were nuts. In most cases we (The Scout and I) Have found ways to work around this. In some cases it has been the Scout, one of the parents and I that have worked around the other parent. Some of the most difficult families that I have had dealings with have been where the Lad comes from a family where the Father is of another race, married to a local woman. Very often this man sees things in a very different way than we might and he kinda wants things like they were in his native land. While this has been a problem, I do have to say that most times these mixed marriages with a very strict father as the family head work out great for the SM and the Troop. Dad is over the moon that someone is willing to volunteer their time to work with his son. There have been Scouts who are watching their parents go through a messy divorces and both parents are acting in a way out of order way. Sometimes I have felt that I was stuck in the middle, with each parent coming to me to tell me how unreasonable the other parent was being. When this happens, other than feeling sorry for the poor kid, I have tended to take plenty of no notice of both parents. -Thinking that at least for the time being they are both nuts! I would be willing to report child abuse to the proper authorities, I have taken car keys away from parents who have had one too many and have asked a parent who was "Under the weather" to leave a meeting. Ea.

Where I live CPR courses are offered by the local hospital. They list the when and where on their web sites. The local community college, they send out a newspaper a few times a year and again they list courses on their web sites. Because it's cheap! At work we use ASHI (American Safety & Health Institute)All of our contact employees have to be certified. I instruct the course and most times the guys have their cards by the end of their shift. While ASHI is not as well recognized as some of the others, one of the guys who instructed me to become an instructor said that the council he was in had become an ASHI Training Center. I looked into this and it really isn't that expensive. In fact some Councils could offer courses to non- scout organizations and make a lot of money for the council. I feel sure if you ask around that there are people in the area/Council where you live who can guide you to where you need to be. Eamonn.

SR540Beaver, No I'm not going to fall into the trap that you have set! Looking at todays list of topics this does seem to be the one that is being discussed the most. I was retired from WB a few years back. But back in the day when I was active with the then new syllabus, reading it, re-reading it and going thought it. I at times tried to imagine who had done (Written) what parts of it. There used to be a video that introduced the then new course, with a female Cub Scouter holding her laptop in her hand in every shot. For some unknown reason I was willing to blame her for all the stuff that I seen as being silly or over the top. I was at that time willing to think that she was the one who had stumbled by accident into some kind of a Leadership Course and had the idea to add all this stuff to the course. While I'm really OK with us having a Leadership Course and I'm OK with us all trying to learn about leading. I really do think that the entire world seems to be buzzing around presenting different types of courses on leadership. Too much so for my liking. Just last week in my "Real Job" I attended a meeting of our Culture Change Committee. The very first hand out was the good old Four Stages of Team Formation (God Bless Tuckman.) Later in the week I attended a training on Hostage Negotiation. Sure enough the second session was about Successful Situational Leadership with a lot of stuff taken from Blanchard and Hersey Management of Organizational Leadership. Talk about overload! As I say I have no problem with any of this Leadership Stuff. The problem I do have is that at times someone somewhere gets it into their mind that the "Buzz Words" or phrases used are kinda important. While I fail to see a huge amount of a difference between what Tuckman and Blanchard are both saying as to my mind they are both saying very much the same thing (At least when it comes to leadership development.) Picking on a few words and stressing them as being the be all and end all is just silly. I don't have any real issue with teaching a skill. I have sat through lots of classes both in and out of Scouting which deal with how different people and different group learn and gain know how and skills.While for the most part I have never bothered to remember the cute little names that who ever might have taken the time to write this stuff might have given them, they all for the most part work, at least for someone or some group. Right now it seems that someone in the BSA has taken much the same classes and come home remembering EDGE. They must have been really impressed with it and want to pound away at it. Over the years we have had catch phrases that have come and gone. Back when I took WB, I swear that if one more person had come up to me and said "Check your resources". I was ready to scream. When the new course came along for a while just about every trainer you met was going on about Forming, Norming and lets never forget performing. I do think that falling in love with a cute little term which we allow to get overused and become far bigger and more important than what it really is a disservice. I'm not saying that EDGE doesn't work. It can and does work, but just give us a break! Next year we will have another cute little bit of jargon that we will be up in arms about. Who knows maybe leadership from the top down with come back and I'll write a best selling book on Practical Leadership? "Treat people as if they were what they ought to be and you will help them become what they are capable of being." Goethe. (My cute little saying for next week?) Ea.

Lot of good stuff and good ideas from the forum members. Over the years I have seen a lot of new units start up. It is not unusual for the paperwork (Charter) to be managed in a Topsy turvy backward kinda way. While this maybe isn't the way it should be done. -It happens. Right now the main thing is keeping the Scouts you do have active interested and doing stuff. Everything else can and should be put on hold. A Troop can continue and grow without a lot of support from a Troop Committee. But if the Scouts are not doing anything they will leave and there just isn't any need for the adults. I kinda get the feeling and I might be wrong that you don't really like the guy who is SM? If this is the case? - Get Over It! If you don't there is a good chance that things will fall apart sooner than later. What we do isn't rocket science. We are looking at 8 kids. It really shouldn't be that hard. I wonder what might happen if all the adults put their egos to one side and just focused on keeping these 8 Lads busy? Have your good wife take on the role of CC and you become an ASM? The Scouts don't care what patch an adult wears, they do see who is going out of their way to get stuff done and who is working for them and with them. In time if this SM isn't doing the job, the Scouts will turn toward the person who is and the person who isn't will unless he is a real first class twit get the message. You do need to do what you can to work with this guy and there might be times when you will have to work around him. Still right now for the good of the Scouts you do have all the adults need to be seen to be fully supporting each other and be seen doing what is for the good of the Scouts. Of course the parents of these Lads are going to go to you and your good wife. They know you both from Cub Scouts, they have a bond with you and feel that they can go to you and talk to you. Right now you need to be supporting the SM. This might mean filling in the gaps and doing things that the book says that SM's do. But if you put the SM down and allow others to put him down, the chances of the new Troop making it become less and less. My thinking is that once the SM gets busy with all the other stuff he is tied up with and sees that he is not up to the job, he will be willing to step down and hopefully take on another role with the Troop. Right now is a very busy time for a Troop. Summer Camp is just around the corner. Getting these Scouts to camp and having the adults in place who will attend with them has to be a priority. This takes planning and communication along with a commitment on the part of the adults. Do you know what adults are going? For now I'd say that all the "Good Committee Stuff" Can be put on hold and working for the 8 Scouts you have with a view to recruiting more should take first place. Take it one step at a time and don't over think it. This is supposed to be fun Eamonn.

You might want to call ahead on the phone. The Scout Shop on Buckingham Palace Road never used to sell the Training Stuff from Gilwell. I don't know why or if this has changed. Looking at the Scout Shop web site yesterday they have a lot of stuff left over from the World Jambo on sale, I'm thinking of ordering a few polo shirts. A few years back I took my wife and son for a stay in London, we spend a week at BP House. While it wasn't up to any Hotel standard and is more like a hostel, it is clean and not that expensive. It is in a wonderful location for anyone who wants to see London. Most of my family moved out of London, because it is so very expensive. My one sister who lives in Hong Kong, does keep a house in London, by the Thames in Putney. She paid an arm and a leg for it and while Putney is a very nice area, it is a little way out for sight seeing in London. I really like London and Londoners and have given some thought that maybe I might return. But the cost of living is so high. Still to my mind it is the greatest city in the world and the people who live there are just wonderful. Ea.

Over the years I have taken a good many Americans to the Scouting high spots in the UK. I think that it's fair to say that most have come away thinking it was a bit of a waste of time. I have not been to Gilwell Park since, the administration buildings were moved from being next door to Baden Powell House and the renovations were done for the last World Jamboree. So maybe things have changed? The main Scout Shop store is on Buckingham Palace Road not Buckinghamshire Lane, which I have never heard of and I lived about ten minutes from the store. The store is in business to out fit the Scouting needs of the Scouts in the UK. A great place to buy uniforms, tents, boots and the like. While it does sell some stuff that an American visitor might want to pick up and take home, the truth is that there just isn't a lot of choice. If you were taking a family? I'd suggest that before you go, that you try and get tickets for The Royal Mews, which are just across the road. You can book ahead of time on line. http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/default.asp?action=article&ID=31#prices. The best time to visit Gilwell Park is when the Gilwell Reunion is going on. http://gilwellpark.ticketseller.co.uk/buyticket2.cfm?eid=109. At other times? It is kinda like visiting your local Council Summer Camp site while school is still going on. While you might find that there is something of great interest going on. The chances are that there just isn't that much to see and the people who are there are busy doing the stuff that they do on a day to day basis. You can order most Wood Badge stuff that you might want on line. http://www.scoutshops.com/cgi-bin/sh000009.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2escoutshops%2ecom%2facatalog%2fgilwell%2dpark%2dbadges%2ehtml&WD=woodbadge&PN=Awards%2ehtml%23a1022507#a1022507. But the beads they sell are kinda cheap looking and very light. The Gilwell Wool Scarf is very nice, but at 14.55 it should be. Unless you are someplace near Chingford? I don't think it's worth the trip. One nice thing is that they have photos from all the past WB courses that were held and you could if you want a good laugh look me up and see what a good looking fellow I was back in 1974. When I took the course. Back in the day, my first set of beads were made from ash. The beads that were made from oak, were from a fallen oak and the money was to be used to help pay for the renovations to the White House. When I was a Scout Leader in England we used Gilwell a lot. It was a good place for a new Patrol Leader to go for their first Patrol camp. We used to build bridges over the Bomb Hole and I remember landing myself in all sorts of hot water for building a very big Monkey Bridge on the Training Grounds. As you can imagine this was frowned upon at that time. Enjoy your visit and don't spend too much time in the pubs. Ea