Eamonn

When it comes to FOS, I somehow manage to find myself in a real mess. (Because of this I no longer am willing to do FOS presentations at the unit level, but will do them at the community level.) I like to think that I'm an honest fellow, yet when it came to these presentations it seemed that there was a big elephant in the room that just wasn't going to be mentioned. That "Elephant" was of course the payroll of the Council. I just found that I could no longer ask families to hand over their hard earned cash to pay the salary of someone who was going to earn two or three times what they were earning. It just didn't seem right. I didn't have this problem when it came to asking local businesses, my thinking being that they were in a better position to help pay the salaries. All this talk about supporting camps? Just doesn't sit well with me. While of course camps do at times need updates and large amounts of cash but for the day to day running of a camp? That should come from the camp fees that of course come from the campers. I'm willing to give my financial support to the Council. I'm not silly enough to think that Councils don't need money and I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it. There have been times when I have seen or thought I've seen mismanagement by the SE when it came to finances. When this has happened I donated items that I thought would be used for the good of the Council and not cash. I'm not a great lover of the Family FOS. While I can and do see that Councils need money. I believe that SE'S and the professional staff need to be out seeking more grant money and support from the business community, not bugging families who might be having a hard time making ends meet or Scouters who are supporting the Council at the unit level. (When there are no adult leaders there are no units and when there are no units we don't have a need for Districts and Councils.) If it turns out that there is a real need for finances to keep Councils afloat? I would prefer that a membership fee on top of what is paid to National be imposed and that Councils be forced to live within these means. Maybe it's a good job that I'm not in charge of things? Ea.

"a basic discussion on our assumptions of what we expect out of our government is in order" I agree with this wholeheartedly. While admittedly I would find a Right Wing agenda very distasteful, much as others might find a Left Wing agenda equally as distasteful. I do however think that having both the Republicans and the Democrats trying to ride the middle of the road is just daffy. If we are going to elect bums? Then lets at least elect bums with back bones who are unwilling to sit on the fence. Ea.

A few months back I was talking with my uncle in England on the phone. I was ranting on about something dumb that my son had done. My uncle started to laugh and reminded me about some of the dumb stuff that I'd done when I was my sons age. After I put the phone down, I got to thinking about this. For years I was known for preaching that we Scouters need to remember the stuff that we did as kids and try to not be too hard on Lads just because they are what they are. Yet there I was running my mouth. I have been in Scouting a very long time, it has played a very big part in my life and making me the person that I am. Still I'm not perfect and have just as many flaws as people who were never Scouts. I know people who have come into Scouts and Scouting late in life and maybe because they see what we do and fail to do with fresh eyes, they have worked wonders. I still like to think that becoming an Eagle Scout is a big deal and is worthy of something. Still I believe that there are lots of different reasons why Scouts become Eagles. Some belong to Troops where maybe the rank isn't really earned? Some are pushed into it by all sorts of reasons. My wife tried this with my son, reminding him that his uncle was an Eagle Scout and how far his Dad had gone in the UK. It was a kind of blackmail. That he didn't go for. He was OK being a Life Scout until he found out that Summer Camp Staffers who were Eagles got a $100.00 bonus just because they were Eagles! I only became a Queen's Scout because I was with the right group of people who were friends of mine and we were having fun. In many ways I just kinda fell into it. While of course we all get rewarded for what we have done. Still the most important part of being a Scouter lies with what we are going to do. Please don't forget what it was like not to be a little angel, keep this in mind when you are dealing with our youth members, they just like you are not little angels, Scout uniforms don't come with holes for wings. They will fall down and do dumb things. Having someone who has been there and isn't too quick to judge and put them down is a gift. You have it. But it's up to you how you put it to use. Ea.

You are going to have to watch that you don't start packing on any extra pounds, now that you have another cook in the house. As I have posted in the past when I found out that the students didn't share my love of English history and I threw in the towel on teaching. That or go nuts! I decided I wanted to try my hand at cooking. My mother was not a very good cook. I think that I was in my twenties before I was able to tell the difference between steak and liver! hen she cooked them both were very tough and could be used by a local cobbler. I first started cooking as a Scout. Now I look back and am very thankful for having been given the opportunity that I was given. While I enjoy a lot of the skills that I acquired as a Scout, I do think that cooking is the one that I put to the most use in my day to day life. A belated happy birthday to your hubby and good luck with your new diet! Ea.

bigbovine Wood Badge is open to any trained adult. It is a very nice course, which I think does help leaders learn more about leadership. It really isn't going to make a lot of difference what position you hold when you take the course, the information is the same for everyone that attends. The big difference will be when you come to write and complete your ticket. With this in mind, I would suggest that you wait a while and don't rush into attending the course. From what you have posted it kinda looks like at some stage you will end up with a Boy Scout Troop. Boy Scouting is a very different kettle of fish than Cub Scouting and great as some training's might be, it takes time to gain a true understanding of both the game and the purpose, while also learning the skills needed to do a good job. Most Tickets are about seeing an area that is weak and doing something that will help improve that area. A newbie might have a problem seeing what is weak and may not have the know how to go about doing what is needed to fix it. You have a lot of time to attend the course, slow down enjoy the ride for a while, learn as much as you can about the program, find out what makes Scouts tick, attend a few summer camps and then think about attending. Ea. (If you find out what makes Scouts tick? Please share it with us. Many of us have spent a lifetime working on that one.)

packsaddle I don't claim to know very much about Fair Tax, but it seems a lot like the VAT (Value Added Tax) that is in place in the UK. Over the past few hundred years governments have looked for and found all sorts of ways of taxing people. Again in England there has been a tax on windows and before that a tax on chimneys. (Can't work out why I keep thinking about George Harrison and the Taxman?). The debate that is going on now is more about how the money is spent, more than what method is used to collect it. jet526 makes some good points about entitlement. I might disagree with him, but his points do have some merit. The recession we have experienced has caused governments all over the world to look at what cuts can be made. In Ireland old age pensioners are being asked to pay more for their medical care. In England students are close to rioting because of increased tuition costs. Here in PA. Our Governor has come up with a budget that axes a lot of the funding for education, especially higher education. Already students are starting to voice how unhappy they are with the proposed cuts. The truth is that while students don't tend to vote and are an easy target for cuts. Their parents do vote and when faced with having to pay a lot more will remember who caused them to have to pay more. All too often these cuts are made not where they might be needed and not where they will do the most good but where they will do the least harm politically for the people who make them. Worse still is when some groups get special attention because they have helped someone or some group get elected and they are exempted from cuts or taxes because of their support. Those who end up being harmed are those who will cause the least fuss and very often have no real voice. At times the people who make the cuts fail to see that all they are doing is shifting the problem from one area to another and at the end of the day no real savings have been made. I don't know the answers.At times the media gets so wrapped up in the trivial stuff that is the sound-bite of the day, that the real hard news that determines so much and effects us all is just not reported, it becomes hard to know and even find out what is going on. Ea.

"That you would advocate" I'm sorry, I didn't think I was doing very much advocating, other than saying that we all need to think about what it is that we really want. Have to admit that I have a big problem with terms like "morally reprehensible." While some might and do find taking money from others just because you don't want the government to live within its means morally reprehensible. Some might and do think hurting and causing harm to the people who can least afford it to be morally reprehensible. Making this choice and being willing to put up with the consequences is worthy of our discussion and I would hope what people will think about when it comes time for them to vote. Ea.

This "Duty To God" is a tough nut. Being brought up in a strict Irish/ Catholic home. I was raised to believe that as Roman Catholics we had it right. We were on the fast track to Heaven and in many ways we pitied and looked down on everyone else. Of course being as I lived in England the schools at that time tended to go with some kind of generic form of Protestant religion. Very often school Assemblies ended with the Lords Prayer with the "For thine is the power and the glory" on the tail end, which the R/C students didn't use. Students who didn't want to stay for the prayer could leave. Scouts and Scouting at that time in the UK was for the most part kinda along the same lines. Scouts Owns were nice little services, mainly held in a nice little outdoor chapel. But it was kinda taken for granted that most Scouts were Christian with maybe the odd Jewish Scout here and there. I remember that a BSA Troop in the UK undertook rebuilding a chapel at an English National Camp Site (Walton Firs.) They did a fantastic job. They build a nice alter and behind the alter was a big cross made out of oak The chapel was used for Scouts Own services and R/C Mass when a priest could be found. By the time I became an adult leader, things had changed a lot. England had become a lot more cosmopolitan and diverse. The Troop I was S/L of had as many non-Christian Scouts as it did Christian. As a Troop we did our best to respect the needs of each Scout and his religious beliefs. The hardest part of this for us as a Troop was menu planning. When I first became a leader, I was OK with bringing the R/C Scouts to mass with me, while one of the other adult leaders would take everyone else off to a local church, no matter what religion they might be. Over time we did see this as not being the right thing to do. All of the adults in the Troop belonged to a Christian based religion. None of us at that time really bothered to find out much about the other faiths and religions that the Scouts belonged too. But I think it's fair to say that at that time in the UK religion wasn't taken as much to heart as it is now here in the USA. When I moved across the pond to the U.S I was very confused with all the different terms that were used: Interfaith, Non-denominational, interdenominational, the list seems to go on and on. Doing the right thing might seem hard. But doing the right thing for where you are at might not be so hard. Where I live most of the population is white and belong to a Christian based religion. There was a Synagogue in the next little town but it closed due to lack of members. Catering to the religious needs of the kids in our area is not hard and it un-lightly that anyone is going to get upset. However the jail where I work, which has about 1,000 inmates has a 10% Muslim population. Respecting the religious needs of these guys is also important and might be a little more difficult for non-Muslims? As Scouter's I don't feel that we should try and impose our religious beliefs on others. I'm open to discussing mt own personal beliefs with Scouts. At times I do feel that I'm defending my religion. This sadly is more so in the light of the child abuse cases that have come about in the past few years. But, very often I have had chats with Scouts who are challenging their own religious upbringing and creeds and they are uncomfortable talking with their parents on the subject. My feeling is that there are some unwritten rules that we need to follow. I really don't think we should ever challenge the parents of the Scout and the way they are bringing up their son. While some knowledge about other religions is great, I don't believe I need to know all there is to know about other religions in order to be a good Scout Leader. I believe that when it comes to working with Scouts, especially older Scouts who might be questioning their own religion, we need to keep an open mind and really practice active listening skills. While membership does demand Duty to God, which does mean the acceptance of some kind of God or higher power. I'm happy to allow everyone to go about this in their own way. If studentscout is happy doing whatever it is he is doing? I say more power to him! I'm not in the business of preaching or converting. I am however in the business of setting a good example and living up to my own personal values and beliefs. As a COR, I think the message should be about welcoming all and respect for all, while following the Scout Oath and Law. Ea.

While it's fair to say that I have always been very Left of center for a very long time. Watching what has happened in the past few elections, it seems to me that there has been a feeling of "Change" more than anything else. Just change the people that are there. No matter what side they are on, no matter what they say they are going to do or might do. Just kick 'em all out and bring in new faces. Many of us see the size of the deficit.We kinda know that this isn't a good thing, but when faced with finding ways of paying it down? All the cuts and cut backs seem to hurt or cause harm and those who are hurt or harmed fall into a special case. At the local level. Where I live I see billboards that want schools to cut back, increase classroom sizes, stop spending money on sports. At the State level things seem to be in a real mess. State workers are being cut and their pensions and health care packages are in jeopardy. Republican Governors like Tom Corbett, here in Pa. Were elected after stating that they wouldn't raise taxes, which they may not themselves do. Still they know in their heart of hearts that in order to pay for essential services the guys at the county and city level will end up raising taxes. To me this seems just a case of passing the buck. I haven't read the news yet today. So I'm not sure if the Shut down is going to happen or not? From what I have seen on the TV and read this shut down is no longer just about funding. It has become more about the add ons, the special agendas of the groups who now feel that they have the power to force through things that might feel are important. While I might admire their passion? I can't help but feel that they are pushing their luck and adding on their special projects at this time is just plain wrong. Maybe now that people have had a chance to see what these new faces are up to and see that just kicking the bums out and replacing them with fresh bums? Really isn't the answer. We can hope that the time has come to take a real look a real long hard look at what we want and who is going to stand up and work toward doing what we want. If the majority think about it and want to cut the size of government? Then that's fine and dandy. They will of course need to be aware that there is a cost to these cuts. If on the other hand the majority looks long and hard and decides that maybe all these cuts are just too painful? Then, they must also see that there is a cost for this. While I might be willing to pay a little more in taxes? That's just me. My hope is that what is happening now will act as a wake-up call and the time has come for everyone to really look at what is important to and for them? Then vote for the group or the person who stands up for what they want and what they believe in. Ea.

I will of course watch this. Of course I'm overjoyed for you and the other adults in the Troop. I can almost feel your pride shining through from the other side of our great commonwealth. Great Stuff! Ea.

Budge While I talk with an English accent, when I cut myself I bleed green. Both parents were from County Meath, in Ireland. Moving to England after the war. My Dad was on his way to Australia when he met my Mother. Kinda strange that two people who lived less then ten miles apart didn't know each other till they met in London. Mum wasn't that keen on moving so far away from Ireland, so they remained in England. I was in Ireland last summer with my Wife who is a yank. I seen more of Ireland in 3 weeks than I ever did before. As a little Lad, I was packed off to Ireland most summers, but other than the local village (Slane) and a weekly trip to the big city Drogheda, I never got the chance to see much else. A few summers back my son and I got to attend summer camp with a very good friend of mine at the Robin Hood District camp site. It was a real eye opener for my son. He commented that the English Scouts really understood the Patrol system. The great thing for me was that, the SL had been the fellow when I was newbie leader, who had taken me under his wing. I think he had more to do with the leader that I became, more than anyone else. Not just in Scouting, but in just about everything I have ever done. - Talk about hero worship! This fellow has an understanding of the program and of Scouts that is truly outstanding. Ea.

Budge What part of England? I was born and bred in the smoke. Was SL of the 17th Fulham (Pioneers) for 11 years. Sad to say the 17th is no more, nor is Fulham District. I'm still in contact with some pals over there. Disappointed that I didn't get an invite to the wedding! Still might make it over for the Olympics. Ea.

"basting stitch the knots together" Now it seems we're getting technical! I will ask HWMBO what she does and get back to you. Ea

The question about bylaws comes up a lot. Some people swear by them and don't understand how any unit can function without them. While others just don't see the need for them. I belong to the group who just doesn't see the need for them. My reasons are: 1/ If we decide that we need a rule for everything then the rule book will get so big, no one will ever be able to find the rule when it is needed. 2/ Most times when someone asks about the bylaws, they are looking to bash someone over the head with the rule book, using rules and bylaws to their own end. 3/ What happens when there isn't a rule or bylaw? 4/ What we are doing isn't rocket science, it's supposed to be about serving kids and having fun. 5/ Maybe deep down I'm some sort of an rebel? We don't need bylaws to tell us what's right or wrong, we should know what's acceptable and what isn't. Any adult who harms a child is clearly in the wrong and needs to be removed. The removal should be handled by the CO. Ea.

Maybe customer is not the word that I'd use? When I look at who caters to whom. I see that the volunteer leaders normally cater to the youth members and their families at the unit level. Districts try to cater to the volunteer leaders, offering trainings and R/T's. As a rule these are ran by other volunteer leaders. Things get a little bit cloudy when it comes to Councils. Councils while they are corporations, tend to be more in the business of passing down and implementing the stuff that comes from the National Office. While also trying to ensure that things at the local level don't get too out of hand. Most Council Executive Boards do what they do without much thought about the wants and needs of the CO's in the area. While of course in theory COR's can vote officers of the Council into office, in most cases the methods used to elect these officers make this very difficult. While I have never served on the National Council or worked in the National office. I get the feeling that we as an organization are fearful of upsetting the organizations that have the most members and or the most charters. We (They) are not going to do anything that might upset a group like the VFW, or other groups because they might pull the plug and decide to go with another organization or maybe start one of their own. Ea.

Beavah, I agree whole heartedly about the poor job we as an organization do with educating CO's. I also agree that local circumstances play into what is and what isn't acceptable. While I have never been involved in Scouting in San Francisco, I think it might be a lot different than being involved here in SW-PA. I do think that some people in our organization tend to think that when another group thinks that the BSA is not for them because of the God and or the gay policy that the other group is wrong. I don't believe this is the case. My feeling is that we have made our bed and we should lay in it. There might be reasons why the BSA is unwilling to change. I think that no one knows what the repercussions might be if we did change. Ea.

Exibar, It might be a little too easy for me to sit here and play the role of Monday Quarterback. I don't know exactly what I might have done. I don't know the Lads who were there, I don't know how I might have been feeling at the time. I don't know a lot of stuff. I think if I had wanted to really know what happened I might have let the Scouts deal with the situation. The big problem with finding out is what happens next? How far and what might I have gone and done? I'm not a fan of punishing everyone because one person let the side down. -But that's just me. I hated it when I was a Lad and I always seen it as being very unfair. Scouts of about 14 and older have a great sense of justice and what's right and what's wrong. Punishing everyone is something that they might see as being just wrong and very unfair. But then again they might just see it as being the cost of supporting their friend by not snitching on him? Boys are strange animals. I know because I once was one. Talking about strange animals. Some Lads get a real charge from seeing an adult lose his cool. I'm not saying that you did. But there are times when the best thing to do is just let them know that you know what has happened and then just move on, not giving them the satisfaction of seeing you get unraveled in any way. Much as I know it might be wrong, I tend to remember stuff. So when the next hike comes along and they ask if they are going to get the Mountain Dew Cobbler with blueberry filling. (Which I've never heard of and would love if you would post the recipe?)I'd be inclined to say that I was sorry but in the light of the disappearing soda last time - Forget it! Yes I know it's wrong, but sometimes payback is worth it! I loved my Father very dearly. He was unlike me a very quite man. When I messed up or did something wrong he had a look, which as I got older I named the "Martyrdom Look". That look hurt me more than anything that he might have done to me. It made me feel like a real scumbag. If you feel that you did maybe overreact? You might want to play the "Martyrdom Look" Card. At the next meeting you apologize to the group, telling them that it really wasn't about the soda, but how much it pained and hurt you to lose the trust that you had in them and how you felt let down. If you play it right, by the time your done they will feel much as I did when my Dad got me with it. Really, really bad and sorry for what I'd done. Ea.

I like Sundays. If I haven't gone to mass on Sat. I like to get up early, go to church, come home, make a pot of coffee which I drink out of my "Sunday Mug". A slightly over-sized mug that OJ bought for me from the 2005 National Jamboree. As a rule I have two toaster pastries, not pop tarts, the other ones with the packs of icing. Then I sit in my recliner watching Sunday on CBS. Ollie the English setter sits on my right, Dudley sits by my feet and Friday stretches out on her back on my lap so I can scratch her tummy. When the show is over we go out on our big long walk. Yesterday was great. It was about 50 degrees with a fair wind. The birds were singing, Dud was having the best time chasing robins, Friday was sniffing all around the out-buildings looking for field-mice, rabbits or whatever, Ollie kept his eye on her just in case she found something, so that he'd be ready to jump in if need be. I looked at the flower beds seen the shoots that were starting to come up, I gave all the new trees I planted last year a once over, looking for signs of new growth. All this got me to thinking about being happy. I think that I am happy. I remember some time ago there was something? An ad for something which went "Happiness is a .." I can't remember how it ended. Any way, I got to thinking, what makes us happy? How would you finish the sentence? What are your happinesses? I'll start Happiness is coming home from work and being met by 3 dogs who are excited to see me and give me unconditional love. Now it's your turn. Please don't put down anyone else's happinesses. This is just for fun. Ea.

"What is wrong with " Scouts, Wiccans, the local church, the Red Cross Emergency shelter, the Buddhist ladies' quilting club, whatever" using a public building that all the people in those groups paid for using the prescribed method for reserving the room?" I think, I don't pretend to know! But talking with people in the area where I live who are in charge of schools and school buildings the fear that they have is once they open their doors to one group, they really have a hard time saying no to any group. While I don't see much of a public outcry about the Buddhist ladies' quilting club, there are groups out there that are just not nice. These groups are of course welcome to think what they like, meet and as long as they don't cross the line and do something illegal. - Why shouldn't they be allowed to use public buildings? I don't see that this has anything to do with diversity. As for goodwill? The local newspapers around here would have a field day if a school district were to allow a bunch of Koow-kluckers to rent a school building and turn up in their fitted sheets. We might not like to hear it but there are people out there who view the BSA with its policies on atheists and homosexuals as being in the same boat as the Koow-kluckers. We can't claim to have real diversity as long as there is discrimination in place. I do think if my kid attended a school where the PTA sponsored a youth group, no matter how wonderful it might be that discriminated against left handed kids and left handed parents,I'd be upset. Being as both OJ and I are both left handed. I know this sounds silly. But is it any different than sponsoring a group that discriminates against others who are not doing anything illegal? Ea

To be fair to the Crews in our area that are very close to Troops. Many of these were started at the request of the Key 3,in order that the District would end the year with plus one units. With hindsight, I can now look back. - Yes I was one of the twits who was putting pressure on these Troops to start a Crew. And see how daffy it was. Most of the Troops in the area where I live are not very big. In fact very few have more than 20 members. Most don't have a lot of Lads over 15. So they just don't have enough members that would really make having an active Crew work. Add the fact that nearly all of our Boy Scout Leaders tend to have been Boy Scouting for well over 20 years, with the only new faces being the guys who cross over with their son's and you see that having these SM's and ASM's are not going to embrace change that easily. In the Council, there are a few Troops that offer wonderful programs for older Scouts, but the mindset of the adults is still very much about doing things the Boy Scout way of doing them. Have to admit that I don't have what it takes to be a good adult in Venturing. I like the structure that Boy Scouting and Sea Scouting has to offer. I was a Venture Scout back in the UK. While a great deal of our time was spent messing around with cars and motor bikes along with the quest to find real ale (Drinking age in the UK is 18 years of age.) We were active doing outdoor activities like the Duke of Edinburgh Award scheme and Queen's Scout Award Ea.

Hi Scouterabouter Welcome. I'm not a great fan of the Venturing program as it now stands. That was one of the reasons I opted to get involved in Sea Scouting, which suited me better. Putting that aside. Most of the Crews in the area where I live tend to be very closely connected to Boy Scout Troops. While this looks like a good idea it does have its drawbacks. The Boy Scouts seem unsure what program they want to follow and at times are pushed for time what with all that is going on with Troop and OA activities. When it came to recruiting for the Ship. We really done everything possible to ensure that the Ship was youth led. A good many of the activities that the Quarterdeck came up with, while being fun were in ways about attracting new members. We held dances at the local VFW,with all the planning and the entire event coming from the youth members. They plastered the local high schools with posters and fliers. We lost money on the first dance, because they paid a DJ. The ones that followed went far better when they provided the music themselves. All night bowling followed by early morning breakfast proved to be very popular and they invited a lot of friends to bowl and join the Ship. We had several Sea Scouts serve on Summer Camp Staff, wearing their Sea Scout uniform, this sparked a lot of interest in the Ship. The guys (With a little prodding!) Kept the local newspaper aware of what they were doing sending in articles and photos. Our CO, the local Elks allowed us to have a notice board in the entry way and we kept the Elks up to date with what we were up to. The Quarterdeck also seen that many of the things that they wanted to do was more affordable and doable when there were more people involved. -Driving full buses is cheaper than driving one half full. Having more people selling stuff, brought in more money! For the adults involved (Mainly me at the start!) It did mean allowing them to plan and do things that I might not have been as ready to accept as a Boy Scout leader. We found that in our area girls don't get the same opportunities to participate in outdoor and high adventure activities that boys do. We tried working with the local Girl Scouts, but their leaders didn't seem that open to co-ed activities as we were. While we didn't in any way go out to poach their members, we did attract a few of their members. I thin rather than challenging the members to recruit, challenge them to plan an outstanding and adventurous program. Good Luck, Ea.

Hello SeattlePioneer I'm a little bit puzzled when you post: "You know it's a diverse world out there. You are probably going to encounter a variety of groups with which you have disagreements on various issues." I personally don't think I have any problem with diversity. If I do have a problem? I think it lies with those who are unwilling to accept that the BSA does discriminate. As I posted, I have weighed the pros and cons of this based on my own personal beliefs and values and am willing to remain a member and in most areas a supporter. As for "Can't we all get along?" This is truly a wonderful idea, but in the light of any form or type of discrimination the hard truth is that someone or some group is not seeing things this way. If they did they wouldn't be discriminating in the first place. I think the BSA has a long and great history of doing good and serving the youth of America. I like to think it will continue to do so in the future. Still, just because the BSA is the BSA, doesn't mean it can do no wrong or isn't doing things that doesn't sit well with others. Doing so as a private organization has been given the green light by the courts, but using public funding to do so? Just isn't right. Ea.

The news about PTA their relationship with the BSA is not new. Some local PTA's have opted to ignore the advise they are receiving from their national, while others are taking it very much to heart. Much as many Scouter's don't like to hear it, we do belong to an organization that does discriminate. Some of us, like myself have looked at the pros and cons of the organization and found ways that allows us to belong. This doesn't alter the fact that the discrimination is there and that others might be upset by it. Sure we can stand up and say that we are a private organization and because of this are able to do what we want and accept or not accept people, groups who either meet or don't meet the standards that we set. The down side of this is that we should not accept public funding. This would include the use of schools that are funded with tax payers money. All the PTA's that I know of, don't own very much, they meet in the school that they are associated with. So it they were to charter a BSA traditional unit, the unit would more than lightly meet in the school which is paid for and maintained with funding from tax payers. I can and do see that if I were the parent of a Lad who wasn't allowed to belong to the organization because he was gay or brought up as an atheist. Or maybe his parents were gay and not allowed to fully participate and I seen my tax dollars being used to fund this private organization, I'd be upset. Eamonn

Of course if I was were you are, I'd be glad and more than happy to join you in the Happy Dance. People who have visited the Happy Land should of course do the happy dance. Good for you! Wear your beads with pride. Eamonn.

I have at times pondered if Scouts get the leaders that they deserve? Or if the leaders get the Scouts that they deserve? Maybe I have been so busy pondering that I haven't always kept the important things like he aims, methods and all that good stuff on the front burner. Most times we are so busy doing whatever it is that we are doing that we tend to take it for granted that the important stuff is falling into place. I know that I have at times been viewed by some forum members as a bit of a Book Thumper! Sure enough I don't make any bones about the fact that I see myself as being very much of a traditionalist when it comes to Scouts and Scouting. I do believe we are an outdoor organization. The outdoors is really our classroom and is where our Scouts learn the most about Scouting skills along with a great many life lessons that do help them become better people and better citizens. Lads who join a unit that I'm deeply involved with don't get very much out of their Scouting experiences if they don't participate in the outdoor program. In fact it doesn't take very long for them to find out that they don't belong. But there have been times when a number of Scouts have been busy with other commitments and interests which have got in their way of participating. For the most part this hasn't altered or changed the direction of the unit, just the time spent by the individual Scout. Scouting is and always has been a uniformed organization. Lads who join a Troop /Ship that I have led understand this from the get go. I have never said that uniform from the waist up is acceptable. I have never tried to change the official uniform. We have as a unit looked at when the uniform is to be worn or not worn. Scouts have at times for a lot of various reasons attended meetings when the uniform should have been worn, with one. They know and are aware that not being in uniform is not a hanging offense and while no one is going to make a big deal about it, uniform is something that is expected. The PLC (Quarterdeck) is the body that decides what we do. Sometimes I have had a wonderful group f Scouts who are full of ideas and have the capability of seeing projects through from start to finish. There have been times when the group has needed to learn to do this kind of thing. When this happens I'm OK with helping them while over time allowing them to take on more and more of the planning and responsibility. All Scouts have the opportunity to advance. Some see advancement as a very important part of why they are in Scouting, some maybe not so much. I think it's very important that every Scout has the skills needed to be able to fully participate in the outdoor program, which leads to more exciting and challenging activities.Many of these activities do fall in line with other requirements, which is fine and dandy. But other than finding the MBC for a merit badge that a Lad has an interest in, he is very much on his own. I have never liked the idea of everyone in a Patrol being the same age or the New Scout Patrol. Much of what being a P/L is all about is helping and educating the younger Scouts in the Patrol. Working with and teaching other Scouts gives leadership real meaning as does being an active member of the PLC. One of the most wonderful gifts that we the adults in Scouting have is being able to see and watch the personal development of the Scouts we know. Being able to watch the simple daily good turn grow into more than just helping out at home, seeing the Lad mature and become a more caring young person who is more able to grasp and take on his own understanding of the Oath and Law is our pay day. Have to admit that when it comes to Adult Association and the ideals, in my book this just kinda happens. There have been times when it seemed that just about every Scout in the Troop was going to end up doing hard time and then there have been times when the entire (Well almost!) seemed to have walked right from a Norman Rockwell painting. I've dealt with Scouts who have while at summer camp gone on a shop lifting spree -While in full uniform! Patrols that have organized and carried out truly wonderful Patrol Camps. At the end of the day, we all have times when things seem to be going just great and times when everything seems to be falling apart. -It happens. But we as the adults do set the culture and the expectations for the Scouts and the Troops that we lead. Many different Troops set different standards, while these standards might not be the standard that we have, maybe above or below? What ours is. This doesn't necessarily make them better or worse than us. A lot of the time we don't know what's going on in that Troop or why it is going on? I've known great looking Troops who are turned out in full uniform with more Eagle Scouts than you can count, who can't tie a square knot. I've known Troops who look terrible with Scouts who are really trying. The Scouts are having a great time and they are heading in the right direction, they might never get there. But they really are doing their best. Ea.