Eamonn

Just thinking of the fun times you have ahead; The Christmases, the birthday parties,Halloween, first day of school does make me turn green with envy. While I can't wait to be a Grand-Dad, I do hope that no one rushes into making one!! Glad to hear that everyone is in the pink. Fatherhood really did a lot to change me, in fact it wasn't until I became a Dad that I really realized how much my parents had done for me. Being a Dad is one of the greatest gifts that ever was bestowed on me.I'm sure you feel the same way. Take the time and make the time to enjoy it. Even if it means cutting back on your Scouting family. Enjoy the ride,the ticket is a lot harder than the Wood Badge ticket the rewards are measured in moments that are beyond value. Eamonn. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

A District of 5,000. That sounds very big. I know of six Councils in Maryland and two of them don't have 5,000 in the Council. Yipes!! 5,000 is way too big. The National Guide line is to have only 1,000 in a district. I think the district Advancement Committee would need to look at breaking the District down into smaller manageable parts and having four or five people share the load. The thing that is odd is having a District this large. I would think that there would have to be more than one of everything. How many troops are there in the District? Are you counting in the LFL programs? My heart goes out to the poor overworked DE. Eamonn. If your COR attends the District Committee meeting and complains things might change - It's worth a try!!(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Unc, Greater Pitt. Is the Metro Council I was referring too. The Lad they have in Venturing was a DE here in the District in which I now serve. We did a real good job of teaching him the ropes. His Dad is still active in our Council. If the pro in your area needs a hand I'm sure he will will offer his advice. He and I do keep in contact. He is a good kid. Eamonn.

What a good question!! I wish I had a good answer. I have been asked the same thing by a lot a parents. Here is what I have been telling them. It depends, I as an adult do not drink that much soda or pop. However I did drink more than I have ever drunk at the Jamboree, in fact I was up to two bottles a day @ $1.25 a bottle. Add the odd ice cream, I was spending $5 or $6 a day. My family is small, (On this side of the pond) So I didn't have to worry about souvenirs or gifts for family members. I would think $75 -$100, would cover the Jamboree. You don't say how long they will be in DC? For NOAC I got my son a Visa Buxx Card: http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/prepaid/visa_buxx.html?it=c|/personal/cards/prepaid/index%2Ehtml|/img/text/lh_visa_buxx%2Egif He could use it as a card to buy stuff, or use it at an ATM machine and take money out. I could track his spending on line and top it up if I had too (I did!!) If the card is lost they will replace it. I liked it a lot. There was a Lad who went to NOAC, who did lose his money. His Dad came to see me I added money that he gave me to my Sons card, he took it out at an ATM, and everyone was happy. There are some costs involved, but I was OK with them, it seemed a lot less hassle than Travelers checks. I still had some control. Not a lot but some. I'm still trying to work out how he could spend $16.00 for breakfast at McDonald's?? Eamonn.

I like this idea of Executive Privilege. Have to write a note to myself to go find some. As for the summer Camp thing, I have to admit that many if not most of the troops in our Council do this. Of course that doesn't make it right. The SM may need to get his vacation time posted at work or maybe this is the only week he can get off. So I can see a lot of reasons why the same time. Our Council does put Troops under a certain amount of pressure to sign up for next years summer camp, before they leave this year. Some troops use summer camp for the younger Scouts, while the older Scouts go off doing high adventure activities. Much as it hurts to have to say it, if the SM is doing this stuff and getting away with it, there is very little that is going to make him change. The Advancement Committee, might inform him that what he is doing is not by the book, but in the end he will do what he is going to do. Eamonn.

Hi James, A pal of mine was a staff person in 2001. I was with the troop, we had made some very loose plans to meet up and do some stuff. Trying to get both of us at the same place at the same time just didn't work out. A Dad of one of the Scouts in the troop was also a staff person, he came to see his son. He ended up talking to me for a very long time, when his son did come back to the site he got a "Hi Dad,I'm off too .." And he was gone!! I see part of my role as Scoutmaster as being to get the Scouts out of the site and doing stuff. It might be better that you plan to meet up with your son in the evening when things are not so hectic. Maybe plan on going to one of the shows with him and his troop. Eamonn.

After the BOR, the form has to be signed by the Scout Executive, in the Council and then be sent to National. A Scout isn't an Eagle Scout until they say so.Talking to some of the new Eagle Scouts, they inform me that it is taking about four weeks. In our Council the Award is sent to the SM. Eamonn

We don't as yet have such a position in our Council. The thinking is that we don't have a Boy Scout or Cub Scout Chairperson. We did have a Assistant Council Commissioner Venturing. It came about after a Council Charter Review and there was a mad rush to appoint a slew of Assistant Council Commissioners. Sad to say the guy who was appointed was very much an idealist, and when things didn't move fast enough, he got very upset got mad and had what might be called an outburst at a Executive Board meeting and then quit. About three years ago I was a Patrol Guide for the Beaver Patrol and one participant was a new Council Vice-president for Venturing. I helped him on his ticket. This ticket was very much about setting up committees that would represent venturing at the council level. We got to spent time looking at how councils can do a better job making sure that venturing had a voice. For example, we have a very strong camping committee, Boy Scouts are the main focus and summer camp seems to rule, the Cub Scouts are becoming a force, but venturing isn't even represented at the camping meetings. As a District we now send a Venturing guy to the meetings, but so far we have only got the camp to make the seventh week of camp available for Venturing. Of course attendance is low because that's when a lot of the Venturing members are off to school. With some of the changes that National have made to membership, I think that we will see a lot less playing with the numbers, which will mean that in order to recruit Venturing members we will have to offer them more. We have in our District a lot of small Crews, these guys are hurting when it comes to program. They will never pull off a Super Activity, they just don't have the numbers. Some of the big Metro Councils are offering Crew members the opportunity to do some really mind blowing activities' As to your mental health. You are the only person to know that answer. You will decide how much time you are going to commit and what goals you are going to work on. What if any hats are you going to take off in order to do this? What does Mrs. OGE, feel about you taking more stuff on? I of course wish you all the very best. Eamonn.

I have over the years listened to all sorts of views, I was going to say arguments about Eagle Scout Leadership projects. A lot of well meaning people seem to be very concerned about protecting the award. At times I have heard that the Scouts we have today are not doing as much as the Scouts of some other time. Many people will take a trip down memory lane. While I can't really talk for Lads of Scout age, I do think that when they start this trip with a Scout, it becomes very much like "When I was a Lad we had walk ten miles to school in our bare feet, through the snow, uphill." Not so long back I sat in on a meeting of the Council Advancement Committee and heard a District Advancement Chairman, tell me that He likes to see projects that have at least one hundred hours put in. I know people who see the project as something that has to be of a construction nature, so that when it is done there will be evidence that something was done, something that everyone can stand back, look at and admire. The list of what I have heard could go on. There are some things that might and at times do have a lot to do with what the project ends up being. The human waste disposal unit we call my Son, has procrastinated to such an extend that the project that he was going to do and had been given the green light by all those who do such approvals is no longer needed by the organization that had at one time needed it. He is now searching for a project. I could pick up the phone and within minutes talk to a great number of organizations that would fit the requirements. I have chosen not to do so. My thinking is that it is his project and he should find it. I know of other people who would do everything that they could to get this thing moving. While I have made my choice, when some other well meaning parent or Scoutmaster helps their Son or a Scout in the troop which they serve, it is their choice. The Scout or Son, could say no. At the end of the day the final say does lie with the Scout. OJ, has decided that he wants to do his project at the local YMCA. I have no idea why he has chosen the YMCA. He is having a real hard time trying to schedule things. Soccer season has just ended, they made the play offs, but got beaten in the second round. The rehearsals for the school play start next week, then track will start. He is very active in the OA,as well as the troop. Girls are now very important. He needs and wants money, with no grass to mow he is feeling financial hardship. He has his driving permit. There is a lot of things happening in his life. He has spoken to someone in the YMCA,that someone said that they do have things that need done that would be suitable for his project, but he will need to talk with the Director. When he meets with the Director, he will tell him what he has available. In fact the project is governed to a great extent by the needs of the organization. The requirements are very clear on this. Sure OJ, or any Scout might want to do something but it has to benefit the organization or it is worthless.In conversations with me, OJ has said that he would like to build several benches around the walking track and plant some shrubs. Which sounds like a nice idea, but if this isn't what they want, if they feel this isn't go to benefit them, they are not going to approve it. They might have some prefabricated benches and a company that would donate the plants,if the ground was prepared. The benches might be the type that meet all the specifications that are needed. The project would have changed a lot from his original idea, but would be what they want. When we deal with a Scout and his Eagle project, we are dealing with that one Scout. He has promised to do his best. When it comes down to approving the project, the first stop is with his Scoutmaster. I would hope that the Scoutmaster knows the Scout, has a good idea of what the Scout is capable of. He could help the Scout decide if maybe the project is too big for him or is a "Mickey Mouse" project that other Scouts could use for other rank advancements. He might be able to give the Scout some idea how much or how little work is involved. Next stop is the Troop Committee, again these people should in most cases have some knowledge of the Scout and be able to offer him some advise and maybe offer their support. The last stop is with the Council or the District. It could be that these people have little or no knowledge about the Scout or the organization that will benefit from the project. These guys can make sure that the organization fits the requirements, they can check the paper work and offer helpful suggestions. As the requirement reads: The amount of time spent by you in planning your project and the actual working time spent in carrying out the project should be as much as is necessary for you to demonstrate your leadership of others. We are dealing with that Scout, it is his project, it is up to him to demonstrate his ability to show leadership. I think that a District or Council person, who doesn't know the Scout has no idea of what his leadership level is. He can explain that this is a Leadership project, however he will have to fall back on the approval of the Scoutmaster and the Troop Committee, they know the Scout and have a better idea of what he is capable of. Everyone, the Scoutmaster, the Troop Committee and the Advancement team want this Scout to show leadership. Different Organizations have different needs. If they want a sidewalk build to the specifications from their Architect, made from the specific materials that only Sidewalks "R" us can supply. This is what they want, this will benefit them, to do something that they don't want just isn't an option. Many of us who have had the privilege of sitting on Eagle Scout BOR's have seen projects that could be seen as monuments to Scouting, but when we ask the question who worked on the project or look in the workbook, we see it was the Scout and his Dad. The project has taken first place and leadership is just not there. I have seen projects that are small but the Scout in charge has used all the skills of leadership and had an army of scouts and friends work on it under his leadership. The legitimacy of the award is in the leadership shown by the Scout working on the project. Eamonn

I have and I don't know where it came from a CD, which has a picture of a very old and very rusty farm tractor, the type with metal wheels. It is titled:Broad Creek Memories. The Disk only has two songs, one is Broad Creek Memories, the other is: The Eagle On His Chest.Music & Lyrics by Mike Huneke, who also sings the two songs. Produced by:Bleu Jay Productions. www.bleujay.com Don't know if this is it? Eamonn

While many of us have seen the Lad that for whatever reason leaves everything to the last minute. I see the Lad here as a bully. Eagle Scout or not. He is a bully. Eamonn.

Why not just tell him the truth? Eamonn.

We might be walking on very thin ice here. "Our Unit has a problem with well meaning people coming up with Eagle projects" The requirement reads: While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) The project idea must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your Scoutmaster and troop committee and the council or district before you start. You must use the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, BSA publication No. 18-927C, in meeting this requirement. I don't know what you mean by "Coming up with Eagle projects"? Very often our district will receive requests from organizations who have projects that need done, which are suitable to be used as Eagle Scout Leadership projects. We share this information with the Troops in the District and a Scout can select that project that needs to be done as his project. He still does the planning,he still develops and gives leadership to the project. I don't see this is any different than a Scout going to his Priest and saying "Hey Father, I need to do a project for my Eagle Scout Leadership project, do you have a project that needs done?" As to the materials needed to complete the project, I don't read in the requirements anything about about where they are to come from, other than the note that reads: (Fund-raising is permitted only for securing materials or supplies needed to carry out your project.) In fact there could be projects that involve no materials or the use of materials that are owned by the organization as is shown in one of the BSA examples: Trained fellow students as audiovisual aides for their school. Arranged for more than 200 hours of audiovisual work. When I read this I think that the equipment belonged to the school. How big a project is required? There are no specific requirements, as long as the project is helpful to a religious institution, school, or community. The amount of time spent by you in planning your project and the actual working time spent in carrying out the project should be as much as is necessary for you to demonstrate your leadership of others. Can a Scout demonstrate his leadership of others using materials that are handed to him? I think he can. When it comes to adding or subtracting requirements we need to read the the booklet and make sure that we are following the requirements. Eamonn.

I hope you have made the Troop Committee aware of the behavior that this Lad has displayed? I don't think him making Eagle is the question. In my book I would be asking the committee to remove him from the troop. If you get a spare minute take a glance at the G2SS. I think that he should be gone ASAP. Please believe me that I hate to see a Lad go,but for the good of the other Lad's he has to go. Eamonn.

I had to go out tonight and talk to our local Theater about starting a Crew. It really is a "Gift Horse" As far as starting a new unit goes.They came to us. One of their Board members had been involved with Scouting some years back, he called the Service Center and asked if someone could go and talk to the Board about Exploring. I have had several phone conversations with the guy in charge and explained that we now have Venturing, and I thought that this would be a better fit. The set up is a little funny, this board manages the theater, however most of the productions are put on by an amateur production company, while they are closely linked they are separate. One of the first things that I covered in my presentation was that Venturing was a traditional Scouting program. which did mean that all members would have to make the Venturing Oath. They (The board members) didn't have a problem with this. They will be happy to see young people using the building and it becoming more active in the community. Could this have been an Explorer Post? I suppose so, but I'm far happier that it isn't. This has nothing to do with money or numbers. The DE is too new to play any sort of games and the District Chairman has no time for such tomfoolery. I am still trying to work out how money comes into play? The Council or the District doesn't make any money from a Post or a Crew. All fees collected go to National. Eamonn.

Her Who Must Be Obeyed or a couple of cats? No contest, with my cold tootsies Her That Must Be Obeyed makes a far better foot warmer. And the dogs like her, they don't like cats. Eamonn.

Beaver Old Pal, The pill type is available keep looking in food service catalogs, under Bar Supplies. I wish I could remember the name I think it was Sani some thing. Eamonn.

While I do at times get involved with LFL programs, as a Council we are involved with providing people who will go into High Schools and give career talks. Most of the time I am guilty of looking at Traditional Scouting and the LFL Programs as them and us. In my view and it is my own view, not the District's or the Council's I see the ideals of Scouting as being top of my list. I belong to a value based program, where duty to God is very important. Exploring doesn't have this as part of their program. If I could find a way of not having any of the money that I donate be used for Exploring I would take it. Exploring does not follow the same methods as Venturing and this should be explained to the Organization that is thinking about starting a youth program. Of course if I'm asked to make "The Sale" I will do my utmost to sell Venturing first. The Venturing program is open enough to allow the CO to deliver the program around what ever it is involved in. I do think that a lot of the BSA material on Venturing seems to be outdoor oriented, when the program doesn't have to be that way. You can have a Crew that wants to follow Youth Ministry or Stamp Collecting as their area of interest. If you take a look at the Venturing Activity Interest Survey you will see a list of different activities that a crew might want to do as part of its program for the year. In our area all the Fire Departments are Volunteer Fire Departments, so while a youth might join and want to think about Fire-fighting as a career, the guys in the department all work in other places,these same guys also might have other areas that the youth members might want to try out as an activity. So while a Fire Department might charter a Crew, the Crew could work on First Aid,and firefighting, they could also decide that they want to go as a crew and see a play or go to the opera, both these could be used as part of the Crew Members advancement. Eamonn.

Hi, We did chat about Hay-box Cooking in the chat-room late one night. A search in Google brings up a lot of good sites. http://www.scoutsqld.com.au/Links/Resources/ProgramIdeas/Scouts&Engineering/Solar/solar.html Has a lot of neat ideas, which might fit in with your theme. Eamonn.

One nice thing about a small district is watching the little fellows in the blue uniform grow and follow them till they reach their goal.The District Advancement Chair had asked if I would Chair the Eagle Scout BOR. At supper OJ had asked if Greg, a Lad from his troop was coming tonight? I said that he was. OJ went on to say that Greg had just been voted the best mannered Student in his year.( OJ got most school spirit.) We had four Lads, I did my usual little pre talk with them. Telling them that we are not going to harm them and they should try not to be nervous. Greg was the first Lad in. I really like him, he is just a real nice kid. His Dad is in Scouting, more active in the Lodge than anything else. Greg had left everything to the last minute and really had to work hard to get everything done before his 18 birthday. A few years back he really wanted to quit Scouts. He is the Section Leader in the School band. He really is into sports, he has a fantastic memory for statistics, follows every Pittsburgh team and hopes to get into radio broadcasting. He sailed through the review, he was very confident very much at ease and gave well thought out and intelligent answers. I didn't know the next Lad. The troop he attends is not in the top 20 in the district. John, was very nervous, but came across as a nice Lad. He is 17. I was a bit surprised to see that he was wearing a Den Chief cord, once we started talking about his work with the pack he was on a roll. He really likes working with the little fellows and is building a Chopper, I won a few brownie points when I mentioned that I used to own a 750 BSA bike in a Norton frame. He told us how much he enjoyed going to summer camp. He had done some repairs and painting in his church for his project. Next was Joey. Joey has had a real hard time with ADD and hyperactivity. His Dad is an ASM in the troop and his Mother is very different. Joey was really lucky that he joined a newly formed troop, which was at that time small enough to accommodate his needs. The SM is a nice guy who is a MD. I remember Joey as a Cub Scout, he was off the walls. I was overjoyed to see that he had made it this far. He is in a Tech School and can talk your hind legs off once he gets on heating and air conditioning. I asked him if his ADD had made Scouting hard for him, he said that it had, but thanks to the people in his troop he had worked through it. I asked who if anyone had made the biggest impression on him in Scouting. I thought he would say his Dad or his SM, but he pointed to the Committee Member who had come with him. Joey wen on to list what a great guy and what a help this Committee Member was. Next was Tim. He was in the 2001 Jamboree Troop, his mother send enough pills to sink a battle Ship. His Dad is the SM of a dying troop. They have some younger Scouts, but Tim along with a couple of others are the only older Scouts left. His presentation of his project was almost professional. He didn't interview well. I know that he is a good kid, I know that he has really put some hard work and effort into some of the merit badges. But it was very apparent that Scouting with the troop had lost it's interest. He said that things are tough as he now works in a supermarket after school. When he left the room we all looked at each other. The Committee member that he had brought along didn't say anything. I looked over the paper work and said that everything was in order. I thought that at least one Board Member was going to fail him. I asked the Committee Member if he was still volunteering in the coffee shop at the hospital? He wasn't sure. I mentioned that I knew that he used to. Tim wants to work on planes in the Air Force. In the end we did agree to pass him. When he came back in I told him that he needed to work on his interview skills and we had a little chat. He settled down a little and we talked about him at Webelos Scout Camp. We have four more Eagle Scouts, the kid that wanted to quit, the Lad with ADD, The Lad who will one day be a Cubmaster and A Lad who wants to work on planes. Boy are we lucky to be able to serve such great people. Eamonn

I fail to see why you would want to take issue with my reply. You have your special memories from Gilwell. So do I. The troop used to camp there a lot. I did my Wood Badge there, I attended the Camp Fire Leaders Course there. They are great. However I have also taken American friends there in October or November, we rode the Train to Chingford, hiked up to the site and they felt very disappointed. Gilwell Park, is a great place to participate in Scouting activities, but not such a hot place to visit. If you let me know when your course was and who the director was I will see if I can pick you up a course photo next time I'm over. Eamonn.

I had started my reply in the other thread, when something came up, I didn't see that this new thread had started. My apologies to who the poor person who is getting all the E-mails. If it makes you feel any better one day the system went wild and I got 220 E-mails all the same!! Just for a minute let's think about the people who are teaching these Lads Leadership. I don't know how many adult leaders we have in the BSA? (I could look it up, but have to eat my supper and go do an Eagle BOR.) I think we can agree that we have a lot of leaders. Most of these adults were not selected because of their Leadership skills, most were selected because they were seen to share the values of both the BSA and the Chartering Organization. The BSA has in a roundabout way said that it's OK , we can train these adults to be leaders. In order to do so there is a continuum of training.When the system works right, we have support people on hand and supplemental training's available. These Leaders come from every walk of life, have different levels of education, and are all individuals. When people keep on and on about Training and we hear the "Every Boy Deserves A Trained Leader", we do tune them out or think that they are just sounding off. I don't belong to any other youth organizations, but in my ignorance I think what makes what we do different from other youth organizations is that we really do go out of our way to put the leadership in the hands of our youth members. The Scoutmaster takes on the job of training the Patrol Leaders. He or She is there to help and support these guys. "Ask Your Patrol Leader" is a really dumb thing to say to a Scout, if you know that the Patrol Leader has never been given the answer in the first place. This support thing is really hard on the adults. We know that different Lads have different needs, even as leaders. One of the best SPL's our troop ever had was a real tear away, he always seemed to be in hot water, but the Lad was a natural born leader. He however had a hard time with, setting the example, keeping order,and was too busy to slow down and evaluate anything. He was a very likable, cheeky, charismatic fellow. At times this charisma,could be mistaken for leadership. He became a good SPL,when with the support and help of the adults he started setting the example and using evaluation as a tool to help him plan and make decisions. Of course the needs of a 12 year old are different than the needs of a 16 year old, but isn't knowing the characteristics of the people we lead a leadership skill? I do at times think that some Scoutmasters arm the PLC, with legal pads and pencils, lock themselves in a room saying to the Scouts "You are now a boy lead troop" When the Scouts give that deer in the headlights look, and have no idea what to do they say that they have no leadership skills. Eamonn.

I will admit to not being a Sociologist. I will agree that in some Troops,members of the PLC are not allowed to become real Leaders. They become supervisor's carrying out the wishes of the Scoutmaster. This is a common fault where the blame must lie at the feet of the Scoutmaster. Over the years there have been a lot of very gifted and clever people who think that Leadership can be both taught and learned: Alberti, Robert E. and Michael L Emmons. Baden-Powell, Robert. Banathy, Bela H. Leadership Development by Design. A Report on an Experiment. San Francisco: Far West Laboratory for Educational Research and Development. 1964. Blake, R. R., & Mouton, J. S. Boyle, Patrick G., and George Aker. "The Evaluation Attitude," Berne, Eric. Brammer, Lawrence. The Helping Relationship Process and Skills. Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice Hall, Inc. 1973. Brammer, Lawrence. The Helping Relationship Process and Skills. Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice Hall, Inc. 1973. Carnagie, Dale. Civikly, Rosenfeld. Davis, J.H. Harris, Thomas. James, Muriel and Dorothy Longward. Johnson, David W. and Frank P. Johnson. Larson, John, Bela Banathy and Ken Wells. Mager, Robert F. Margolis, Frederic H. Training by Objectives. A Participant Oriented Approach McKean, Bob ed. Bob Taylor, Stan Ratliff, et. al. Toward Defining Measurable Objectives in the Affective Domain for Experiential Education Programs. Denver, CO.: Colorado Outward Bound School, 1975 Miyamoto, Alan. Spirit and Traditions. Naylor, Harriet. Leadership. Parsons, Helene H. "Peninsulans Founded Advanced Scout Unit," Schein, Edgar H. Process Consultation: Its Role in Organization Development. Reading, Massachusetts: Addison-Wesley. Science Research Associates. "Listening, Note Taking," Scout Age. Showel, Morris and Paul Hood. A Guide for the Infantry Squad Leader. What the Beginning Squad Leader Should Know about Human Relations. US Army Leadership Human Research Unit. All these people have contributed to material that has to do with Training Scouts for Leadership . While we no longer tend to use the Skills of Leadership: Get and give information Get to know and know how to use the resources of the group Evaluate Plan and make decisions Know the characteristics of member of the group Keep the group agreeable to members Control and correct Counsel Manage learning Represent the group Set the example Share leadership When I look over the list, I see skills that can be taught.. Were I to agree that Leadership is not a skill which can be learned. I would be saying that Scouting doesn't work. The Methods of Scouting: Scouting Ideals Patrols Outdoors Advancement Personal Growth Adult Association Leadership Development Uniform Are dependent on each other, to take out Leadership, would be to say that the Patrol Method doesn't work, Leadership Development, doesn't work and that Personal Growth is dependent on Advancement, and advancement has only to do do with Rank Advancement. If we say that Leadership can't be taught, we are wasting a lot of time teaching it to both our youth members and the Adults who serve. A lot of what Baden Powell said and believed can be discarded. Sure some Lads seem to learn the skills quicker or faster than others. As we look at the list we see skills that we are good at an areas that we could work on. To say that "Not every boy is a leader." Could mean that you have an entire troop with no leaders? I'm sorry I just can not buy into this. To do so would to be saying that we as a World wide organization have had it wrong for the last nearly 100 years' Eamonn.

The G2SS mentions discipline a lot in a lot of different places. Constructive discipline. Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scouting's values. Corporal punishment is never permitted. Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members. The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit. If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit. When a unit revokes a Scout's membership, it should promptly notify the council of the action. The unit should inform the Scout executive about all incidents that result in a physical injury or involve allegations of sexual misconduct by a youth member with another youth member There is a lot of reading in them lines. I do not think that the PLC should be involved. The idea of them laying down consequences for wrongs and wrong doer's does not sit well with me. I have always worked on the idea that a Lad in Scouts is there because he wants to be there. When he doesn't want to be there something isn't working. Scouts in my experience do a good job following a code of conduct if they see or think it is fair and they are treated fairly. They really don't like too see any type or form of favoritism. I have always liked kids,I like to think that I care about them. I will admit that I am a real pain in the neck. If I see a Lad doing something really dumb, I will stop him. I don't care what Troop he is in, I don't like see kids getting hurt. If it is only a little bit dumb and no one is going to get hurt or no damage will be done I find myself wishing that I was a lot younger. I don't think that a Scoutmaster has the right to suspend a Scout. That would need to come from the Committee. I spent a little over 11 years as a Scoutmaster and never had the need to go that far. Not that the Scouts that I knew were little angels, I think I had my fair share of "Tough Nuts". At the end of the day a lot comes down to the relationship you have with the Lad, if he knows that you are fair and care about him. He will know when he has not done his best. We can if need be help a group of Scouts see how they have done using reflections. But we should use them all the time not just when they are in hot water. Allow them the opportunity to see when they have done something that will make their heads swell. I love the term "Site Beautification" However I don't think that it is right to do that to a Scout. Reminding these Lads about fetching Wood and Water? Was this a reminder? Who did the reminding? Are you sure it wasn't seen as preaching or ordering? The Merit Badge? Who was going to wear it? Earning Merit Badges is up to the individual. I can't help wondering if some Scouts might have thought that they were being nagged at? The little fellow who was smarting off and back talking too the SM. I feel almost sure that I would have asked him to stop and informed him that he was annoying me. Sometimes telling the truth is the best thing to do. I do agree that the "Rock The Pot", was a really dumb thing to do. However you dealt with it. I feel sure that these Lads are not going to make a habit of it. You made your point. It was a very dumb thing to do. Was there any real need to take it any further? If the Lads do chose to leave the Troop, that is up to them. I understand that the troop is very young, however I think that you are going overboard trying to supervise these Lads. If reminders are needed they should come from the SPL to the PL. If they are too busy or too lazy to go and fetch Wood and Water, who are they hurting? You might want to think about stepping back a little. Allow them to mess up a little!! Then do a reflection with the patrol. You will still get the message across. They will take home the message that "We messed up" Not "SMT376 is mad at us" Of course the rock the pot was really dumb, but I will admit that it made me smile - I'm sorry I couldn't help it. Eamonn

I had a dream that that there was 250 -300 Scouts all in uniform and I only wore the shirt! Boy did I feel silly. I wanted to sue that darn Council, how dare they allow me put myself in such a predicament!! It just isn't fair. I hope that their Scout socks rot. Eamonn