Eamonn

Our council covers two counties and we deal with two United Way offices. Of the four Districts in the Council on one has a foot in both counties. Yes the one that I serve. Both still donate to our Scouting programs. One gives us a substantial amount, the other is less than $5,000. For the $5k, they require annual paperwork and are always looking for something. Gift Baskets, or people to man UW events. But $5k is a lot of money. They are so busy doing stuff that they never have time to do anything. The shame is that they serve the poor county. The County that has more special need units than the other one. The other UW agency is really nice. They have not increased the amount that they give us for about 3 years. Not because of anything political, just because they are having a tough time. They have cut funding to local libraries, as they for some reason no longer meet some requirement that I don't as yet understand. I have invited people from their staff to talk to the District Committee and they have come to the meeting and explained how they see volunteering and the future of volunteering. There was a lot of good stuff in what they presented and it did get the little gray cells working. While most of what they do is done at the Council level, I invited them mainly because they have lists of people that are useful for the District. I do know that not everyone has the same relationship with the UW as we are lucky enough to have. The Company that I work for is based in another County.So I have to write in the code that is needed to get that money back to our council. There is a lot of hoopla when the United Way kicks off in our company, there are goals and prizes and drawings. There always seems to be some new hot place that gets more attention than all of the others. After 9/11. It was that. We have had Breast Cancer, but somehow finding the BSA is like hard work, finding the code for a out of county Council is even harder. I don't know how the United Way runs things, I think each agency is slightly different. If I were really anti something I think I would ask how much do they give to that? And where is that funding coming from? Eamonn.

The Dreaded Merit Badge List. Oh how I hate the very mention of the darn thing. Here is one thing that Eamonn and the BSA do disagree on. The BSA allows a person to be the Counselor for an unlimited number of Merit Badges. I can see that a little fellow who lives in the middle of no where could be at a disadvantage if there were a limit on how many merit badges the only Merit Badge Counselor, who also lives in the middle of no where can counsel. In the district we have the king of all merit badge mills. If you want a quick Eagle it is a one stop shop. On the old list, there was an ASM who was the counselor for 42 or 43 Merit Badges. The old list was past saving. People had tried to update it. People had changed the format we had a list that didn't work available on disk, in word and in Excel. A little over a year ago I got mad, really mad and pushed through the District Committee that the list was dead. I was helped a great deal by the first two names on the list. They were dead. It was like the dead parrot sketch from Monty Python. They were deceased, no more, pushing up daisies. As a committee we said that as of January 1st. The old list was no longer in use. Everyone that wanted to be a Merit Badge Counselor would have to re-apply and the new appointment was good for a year. As all Merit Badge Counselors have to be approved by the District Advancement Committee we made it known that unless there was some really good reason the Advancement Committee would only approve a maximum of five badges per person. Do I know what we are doing is not in line with the BSA? Yes I do. We now have an outstanding list, that works Scouts are using it. The one stop shop has slowed down. Advancement reports that used to read 10, 20, 8, 168, 20, 6. Have lost that odd man out number. The Council Advancement Committee have asked all Districts to do as we have done. The SE is behind this break from the what the BSA, has in the book. Everyone is happy, the chap who used to council all the Merit Badges is gone his son quit Scouting. The unit commissioner phoned to see why and the Lad said Scouting was boring. 37 Merit Badges and he never left the house. I bet it was boring. Eamonn.

Barry, I really hate to sound dense I have been reading your postings for a long time. Off the top of my head I don't see where you are not or have not used the program. I use the word program a lot. But at times I think we have different ideas what the program really means. Scouts and Scouting is not a lot different in some ways than a lot of other youth organizations. I was looking at the UK Scouting web site the other day and they have played around a bit with the wording of their mission and the wording of the methods. The pat answer that I used to give to anyone who asked me what the British Scouts were all about was: The physical,spiritual and mental development of the young person in oder to take a worthwhile place in society. I think most youth organizations have very similar goals. We can talk about citizenship,fitness and character and Scouting all over the world has these big three as an aim, but so do lots of other youth organizations. Some use different tools to get the aim across or make what they are doing appealing to the youth so the youth will want to join. There are sports clubs that use baseball, or football. There are church youth groups that have church camps and choirs and bell ringing, the list goes on. What makes Scouting different is our methods. Baden Powell, never intended Scouting to be a stand alone association or organization. He thought that we would fit very well into the other youth organizations that were around at that time. Of course by the time it came over here there were a few changes made. I'm not sure but I think the USA is the only Country that has Chartered Partners. Scouting USA is as far as I can see the Scouting Organization with the most Organization. However putting all that to one side. We have the Scouting methods. Some of which are easy or at least look easy. I don't see how any Scouting program (Here I go with that word again) can exist without the Ideals of Scouting. Most if not all of us can find values in these ideals that are much the same as our own. We can find much of what we believe in the Scout Oath and Law. Outdoors and camping are to Scouts and Scouting are what Baseball is too Little League. This is one of the big "In's" that we have that will draw kids into our organization, or troop. While there are a few problems with the mechanics of Advancement, we know that it's not rocket science. Do this ,this and that and you can pass go and collect a badge or something as you pass go. Adult Association should be a no brainier.Personal Development or personal growth should be easy. That leaves us with Uniform. While there is a lot of fuss made about uniform and uniforming. It ought not be that hard. Join our troop and you will need to get a uniform. If you need help we will help you. Seems easy enough too me. We have almost given the posters in the other threads a run for their money when it comes to Patrols. Most of us know that Patrols and the Patrol Method is one thing that does really make us different than the other youth organizations out there. It is a goal that we the adults need to look at, see how we are doing and keep going back to and asking the same question. There will be times when it works like a dream and times when it is so much easier to say "What the heck" and step in and do whatever needs to be done. Or times when it's half and half. Along with all this we have leadership development. This to my way of thinking goes hand in hand with Patrols. Some kids will take to being a leader like a duck to water, while others will need tons of help and support. We should never gage what we are doing or where we are at by looking at another unit. They don't have our kids, they may have a spell where all the kids are great kids who go to bed with the Scout Handbook under their pillow. While you have a troop of kids that are involved in every sport that the school offers. The troop down the road may have that Leader that can inspire kids to do almost anything while the other has a twit who couldn't organize a two car funeral. The tools needed to deliver the "Program" are out there. There are meeting planners and suggested themes along with organizational charts and planning charts. But the program that I think is the most important is what you did the last time you met with the kids in your troop. We see here in these forums the attitudes that people have toward different parts of the program. We see guys who think Scout camping should be like a survival test. Guys that want to give away merit badges too Lads who attend a few classes, while others want to make rank advancement so hard, that Baden Powell would still be a Tenderfoot if he were in that troop. We have Leaders who see what they do as serving the needs of the Lads in the troop, while other see the troop as something they own and the Scouts are lucky that they are allowed to join his troop. A lot of the talking heads or people in the Videos that the BSA puts out are akin to "Father Knows Best" or the "Huxtable Family" While I don't like to think that in the real world our troops are like "Roseanne" I think that many fall about midway. The material that the BSA makes available is good and given the chance will work. The same can be said about the maintenance book that came with my car. I know if I take it in for the scheduled maintenance I will have fewer problems down the line. The dumb thing is that I follow it when the car is new Once it starts to get old, heck it's lucky to have the oil changed three times a year. I think the "Here what I do" is like people passing a recipe. Sure there are great cook books that will show you how to make whatever. But something as simple as a hard boiled egg can be cooked a lot of different ways. Some work better than others. Some will leave that black stuff around the yolk. Some will have a different texture, but all will end up being a hard boiled egg. Barry I see the vision of Scouting talk about Fun and Adventure. I get worried when I visit troops where Fun and Adventure have been forgotten. This irks me a lot more than a troop that has shoddy uniforming or a troop that is trying to move toward the Patrol method. If the program is Fun and Adventure everything else will fall in line. How do I know this? I read it the material that the BSA puts out. Eamonn

I thought that I did a good job as a unit commissioner. I have been chastised in this forum for being too tough when I was a District Commissioner. I spent a lot of my hard earned money to attend training's and conferences. I suppose I could post about the great commissioners that I have worked with, seen work wonders with failing units. Could it be that Marcheck sees Commissioners and other parts of Scouting, like I see peanut butter. People tell me how great peanut butter is. They eat it on celery, make cookies with it. Have it on toast for breakfast, make sandwiches with it for lunch. Yet I can't stand the stuff. However knowing that I don't like it I don't buy it, order it or have anything to do with it. Can't help wondering if there is a lesson in there some where? Eamonn.

Uniform is the key? I'm working on that one. I wear the uniform and don't really pay that much attention to the style. My son wears the uniform, some of the time. He has several complete uniforms. At times he is very impatient about wanting patches sewn on the shirt. He wanted the flap that the Lodge came up with for NOAC and the 2005 Jamboree patch on the shirt ASAP. He used to wear his uniform to Troop meetings, I have noticed that he has for a while started to carry it. England changed their Scout uniform, from what looked very much like what we here in the USA are still wearing. The first change was in 1969. The uniform then was a dress uniform. Along sleeved shirt green for Boy Scouts and long dress pants that were a mushroom type color along with a green beret. It was the uniform and because it was the uniform people wore it. Both England and Australia have changed uniforms again. This has happened over the past 3-4 years. They do look like a fast food service worker uniform. I don't know much about clothes or the design. Pants can be long or short. We have both. The cargo pockets we have are so small that you can't get very much in them. As to if they are baggy or not. I don't like baggy shorts. This is a style that will one day change. I remember complaining when the pants in the UK uniform weren't flared!! Shirts there are Dress type shirts that we used to wear ties with. I have noticed that the President has taken to not wearing one, it makes him look as if he means business. Strange when I was doing business, I wore a tie. We have T-shirts that I think have no class. We have golf shirts that I like a lot, but they look fast foodish. What else is there? For me I would be happy if the uniform was a golf shirt and pants like Dockers. Kids like jeans. I look like a cowboy who has lost his horse. Patches are important, they need a place to live. So there has to be a shirt of some kind. Heck leave it alone. We are never going to get it right. Eamonn

I still think that A Scout is Trustworthy. If the chap has said that he is. In my books, He is. Extenuating circumstances or not. For me to question his word,would invalidate our entire program and the code that we have chosen to live by. I would never want to do that. Of course this is just me. Then there is the Troop Roll of Honor. While at this time and hopefully for a very long time, this is important to the people that are there. If and when they are gone or there is another set of chaotic circumstances what happens then? Eamonn

A few years back I was with OJ, waiting for the Christmas photo with Santa. Before me in line were two very beautiful young Moms. Both had blue jeans on that looked like they came out of a spray paint can, both were blond.As I stood in line,I thought that Santa would think I was OJ's Grand pap. He is now 16 and I was a Den Leader when he was a little fellow in the blue uniform!! Talk about making a poor white haired immigrant feel odd before his time!! Eamonn Born in 1955 (Very late in 1955!!)

While finding out is easy. I may be a little too trusting, but going on A Scout is Trustworthy,I would accept his word and leave it at that. Eamonn

I have noticed that more and more Dens are not meeting in the home of the Den Leader. I'm not sure of the reasons behind this. Could be that not all wives are as understanding as Her That Must Be Obeyed? A lot of Dens in the District are now meeting in churches or schools. I liked having the meeting at my home because I didn't have too tote stuff and I didn't risk leaving something at home. There also seems to be a trend of parents staying for the entire meeting. Now please don't get me wrong.I like parents, I had two of my own and Her Who Must Be Obeyed tells me that I am one. But I never had parents at the Den meeting. For one thing there wasn't enough chairs!! I also seen the time that the little fellows spend at the Den meeting as our time. I got to know them and they got to know me. Parents would have got in the way. I suppose looking at it now, this was a way of preparing for the day when they would go off to Boy Scouts But at that time I wasn't thinking about that. I think that having parents at the Den meeting would have cramped both my style and the style of the Den. I do live a little bit out of town. Most of the parents were all pals and car pooled, in fact most of the time the ADL was the designated driver.A couple of the parents were on the Pack Committee and we did have a pack rule that Cub Scouts had to have a parent or family member with them at a pack meeting. I think that the parents knew that if they started coming to Den Meetings, I would start working on them to do stuff. I looked in on a Den meeting, which was being held in our parish church hall. The little guys must have chugged down a few really sweet espresso coffees before the meeting, they were a boisterous little band. The leaders seemed to have lost control. The parents were sitting not doing anything. In fact there were a couple of siblings in the band of boisterous Cub Scouts. I was meeting with the priest about something that had nothing to do with Scouting. We were both shocked. I am one of those people who really enjoys the noise that a happy group of kids make. But this was horrible, I didn't want to get involved. The priest looked at me, he knows that I'm the District Chair, Ex-Cubmaster. He has allowed us to use the school for training's. So I felt that I had to do something. So I stuck my arm in the air making the sign. The Den leaders followed, by now the Cubscouts and a couple of siblings were running on the tables. The Priest also made the sign, but he added "All Right!!" in a very commanding voice. The youngsters stopped and order was restored. The priest took over, telling everyone that they were guests. He was talking and a couple of parents started up a conversation between themselves. We went upstairs leaving the Den. They had left when we were done. I was unsure what to say, so I said nothing. We went for a drink and I said how sorry I was. He said that I was not to worry. I called the Cubmaster when I got home. He said that the kids do better when the parents aren't there. I know that if I was the Den Leader I would have to ask the parents and the siblings to stay home. Eamonn.

If we look at "The Big Picture" We see the mission of Scouting, part of which reads "To make ethical choices over their lifetime". When we look at the Scout Oath and Law we see: To do best. A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal,Courteous, Thrifty, and if we wanted we might want to add Obedient. We also know that we can't add or subtract requirements. When I read the requirements I see "Serve Actively" Serve actively is More than wearing a patch or holding a title. I think that there needs to be a job description written down that outlines the job and what is required to do the job successfully. Before the Scout accepts the position.Some positions require more activity than others. I was talking with a Lad last week, he was telling me how excited he was that he had landed the leading role in two one act plays that his school was staging. Now is more than lightly the best time for him to take on being the SPL, he might be able to do a good job of being Quartermaster. I think it is very important that the Scoutmaster meets with the Scout, a face to face meeting and ask the Scout "If you were to become the Troop whatever what would you do? At this meeting the Scout needs to set goals for himself.These goals need to be realistic. If you the Scoutmaster can help he should try and get the Scout to have SMART GOALS: Specific. Measurable. Attainable. Relevant. Time-Based. I think that it is important that these goals come from the Scout. In the mission statement we talk about making choices. It is a lot easier and a lot less work to just hand him a sheet of paper that tells him what he Has To Do. But if we want to teach Leadership and responsibly, it is better that it comes from the Scout. We the adults need to remember that each Scout is an individual, each has his own strengths and weaknesses. Each Scout may have different resources. Each Scout has a different home life life. While it might be easy for the son of one the leaders to get to every Scout meeting and activity, it might be a lot more difficult for the oldest boy in a single parent home. If his parent is working and he is left to look after his younger brothers and sisters. The A student more than lightly will do a much better job of being the Scribe, than the Lad with a learning disability, and just because he has this disability , we should not prevent him from taking the job. The Scouts goals should be written down, maybe placed in the back of his Scout Handbook. As the time passes all the adults should do everything that they can to support the Scout and help him meet his goals. This might involve the Scoutmaster meeting with him and asking how things are coming along? It might mean getting together with the Scout and rewriting the goals. If the Scout had a goal that he was going to play taps at the October camp-out and the School Football Team made it to the play offs, and this meant that the School Band had to play on the same date. The goal could be changed. When the time requirement has been completed and the Scout goes for the Scoutmaster Conference, the sheet with the goals written on it should be reviewed. Some of the questions I would ask are: Did you enjoy being the whatever? Do you think that you learned anything? How do you think you done meeting your goals? What would you do differently if we could turn the clock back? What parts of the Scout Oath do you think you covered by doing this job? What Scout Laws did cover? If you could rewrite the job description what would you change and why? The requirements say that you were to serve actively, do you think you did? All of this needs to be done in a friendly, quite way. If possible without interruption. If we have helped and supported the Scout I see no reason why he should not pass this requirement. However, if the Scout has made no effort and it is clear that his best was not even given a chance. It will come out at the Scoutmaster conference. Most Scouts will see the truth and will own up to the fact that they have not served actively. In which case they have not completed the requirement. I dislike the word "Strict" I like the word Fair. If a boy does have to be turned down or failed. We as adults have to ask why? And how did this happen? We need to examine what happened? Did we do everything that we could to support the Lad. When we seen that he wasn't at the troop meeting and the ASPL,was running the show, would a call have made a difference? If we had known that he left the camera at camp and didn't get back there to pick it up. Would he have met his goals? Seeing a Scout fail or not meet his own expectations is hard and very sad. We do need to let him know that even though he didn't do it this time, that we all are going to work harder on it next time. Failure can at times have a very positive outcome. Giving a Lad a "Pass" for having a title and wearing a patch teaches him nothing good. When we do so we are not showing him what an ethical choice is, the Scout Oath and Law become just words with little or no meaning. We are in fact saying "Go ahead, it's OK to cheat" As the parent of a Scout, I never want him to learn this anywhere. I'm entrusting the Leaders of the troop with my son. He is at a very impressionable age. He looks to his Scoutmaster and the other adults for a example. He is questioning everything, his faith and the values that we his parents have are being scrutinized. I expect the values that Scouting has to be the values that are shown by his leaders. He needs to learn how to play the game by the rules. He is an individual,cookie cutter rules don't allow him to grow and become the person that he wants to be. Beat him over the head with the rule book and he will rebel. He wants and needs to associate with caring adults who will listen to him, support him and help him meet his goals. Leaders who can't do this need to look in the mirror and set some goals for themselves. Eamonn.

I have always liked : A place where no body gets harmed in body or in spirit. There are times when the best thing that we can do as adults is wait and see what happens. Sometimes Scouts need a little time to work things out. Scout falls in a pool. Not hurt, no harm done. The rest of the Patrol starts calling him "Splash" His pride is hurt and the new name isn't helping. He goes home and over the next few days his pals tell him "Wow you should have seen yourself." They share a good laugh. Now when they call him Splash he smiles. Maybe if the Lad was getting really upset about being called Splash, the SPL or an adult might want to step in and tell the guys "Hey Guys, lets drop it?" Insults are hard to deal with. I have a lot of friends that call me different names, some that include the word Limey, some that make reference to my white hair, we trade playful insults.I have no idea what a stranger would think, we know that there is no harm of any sort intended. My son is called OJ by almost everyone, he also gets Juice. That doesn't seem to worry him a bit. Someone found out that he shares the same birthday as OJ Simpson, and they tried calling him Simpson. He didn't like that. It didn't last very long only a day or two. A few of his teachers call him Ollie and that seems OK. But we have a guy from our Council who will be on staff at the Jamboree, he knows that OJ will be a youth staff member, he started calling him Slave.This seemed to upset him and he gave this guy a very un-Scout like name. While I agree with OJ that the guy was acting like what he was calling him!! I will not allow him to talk about an adult like that. Sad thing is that when I asked the guy if he would stop with the Slave bit, he was very surprised and couldn't understand why he was upset. Come to think of it what OJ was calling this guy would definitely go under the heading of Verbal abuse!! Not that his angelic Father would ever use a term like that!!! Eamonn

E-bay?? Eamonn

I hate when I read about things like this. It would seem that not only has somebody dropped the ball, in this case the whole team dropped it and seem to have no idea where to look for it. While I of course believe it has happened and is happening, because you have posted it. I don't know how or how come? You need to find out if the other Leaders feel the same way that you do. If they do I would call the District Commissioner, the DE, the persons on the charter who are listed as the CC and the COR. Ask for a meeting. Tell the CC and the COR, that you would appreciate it if they would invite the Cubmaster. Before the meeting inform the DE and the District Commissioner what you want. If I were in your shoes. I would be asking for the Cubmaster to resign. The CC to step up and do the job. If he or she was unwilling I would explain that the role of CC is an active one and that the pack needs a person who will do the job.I would very nicely explain that everything would go so much better if the COR did become more active. I would let the District Commissioner know that I felt let down, by him and his staff and tell him that I demand (Yes demand) that he appoint his best unit commissioner to this unit as quickly as is possible. At the meeting if there are more than one pack leader there I would ask one of them to lay out the facts. Just the facts. These being what you think is wrong, and what you think will make it right. Do not make any threats or issue any ultimatums. If the COR agrees that it is time for the Cubmaster to step down, ask if the checking account can be turned over to him the COR. If the CC, is unwilling to continue ask if she will return all pack property to the COR. If you get all this - You will have done well. You and the other leaders should leave the meeting. Get away in a fast car!! The next day ask the DE if she will set up a meeting with the COR, allow a few days so he can collect the checking information from the Cubmaster and collect the stuff from the CC. When you meet with the COR,bring the DE, your new Unit Commissioner with you. Ask the DE to explain to the COR what needs to be done next. Ask if he would be willing to sit on a nominating committee? If all this happens you will have the makings of a new start. The people who are left will need to start selecting people to fill the posts that have been vacated. The next few weeks after this has happened will tell if the Pack can be saved or not. Eamonn.

I still don't like the word dynamics. In fact I don't like Group Dynamics. Maybe my understanding is different than yours. To me Group Dynamics is the study of how a group interacts. This is open to a lot of different studies. It could be how people interact in a crowded elevator. If we look at the Wood Badge Syllabus. We are looking at Team Development. The word Team is very important. There is a difference between a Team and a group. While a leader can move a team through the stages of Team Development in a timely way. A group such as we have in this forum: Does not have a leader. Does not share a goal, a mission or a vision. We will never get to the performance stage because we don't know what it looks like. Sure we can supply the answer to a question if the answer is based on fact."What color tabs does a unit commissioner wear?" The goal is to provide the right answer: "The tabs are silver." Sure that was easy. The question was asked, the question was answered. The goal was met. The next question is why are they silver? I don't know why. But for the sake of this let's say that I post "In Scouting silver is the color we use to show that you have reached the top. That is way the Silver Award in Venturing is higher than the gold and the highest awards in Scouting are the Silver Beaver, the Silver Wolf." (Yes I know it's all twaddle!!) And then Unc, comes along and posts that "The people who serve on the National level wear gold tabs and gold is always higher than silver". Before long we have others posting links to all the different branches of the military and the history of gold and silver in different civilizations. Mean while the question "Why are they Silver" sits out there unanswered. Sure we now know a lot about all sorts of things but the Question is still there. I have no idea if there is a right answer. In fact I really don't care. But while there could or might be lots of opinions and ideas, the goal was never met. With so many opinions and ideas the person who asked is more confused then they were at the start. If we were a team. The team leader would have had some idea of what skills and what knowledge each of us had and he would have asked the person who was best suited to go find the answer. In this case it might have been Unc. We know that because we know unc and the fact that his Great Grandfathers best friend on his mothers side once lived next door to someone who worked for the Scouting museum (I am being ridiculous on purpose.) The team leader would have given the best person for the task the job. And the goal would have been met. In another thread we are looking at a hypothetical pack. The question was asked what position would you take in order to sort out a pack that is a bit of a mess? Bob, you and I were in agreement that the COR, could really do a wonderful job. It now seems that the question is "Where would I do the most good? Please pick between the Cubmaster and the Pack Committee Chairman. Already there are lines in the sand on one side we have the Cubmasters and on the other we have the Chairmen. Both sides will defend why they are where they are. I very much doubt if at the end of it the person will take a lot of notice. I wouldn't be surprised if he already knew before he asked.How will we know if there is a success story? Is there anyway of measuring success? I think that there is a difference between Team Development, and Group Dynamics. At Wood Badge we take a long hard look at : Living the Values. Values; Mission and Vision. Bringing the Vision to Life. Listening to Learn;Communication;Valuing People and Leveraging Diversity; Coaching and Mentoring Models for Success. High Performance Teams;Team Development Model; Team Leadership Model Tools of the Trade. Project Planning; Leading Change;Decision Making and Problem Solving; Managing Conflict;Self-Assessment Leading to Make a Difference. Leaving a Legacy. I was a little surprised that after my posting of 10/19/2004 you said that you were looking for something more along the lines of Team Development. I thought that I was covering them. I had tried to cover Orientation. Call it Forming call it "Pickup Sticks" Dissatisfaction. Again call it Storming or call it "At Odds" Resolution. Call it Norming or "Coming Around" and I was trying to get to Performance. Call it Performing or "As One". In the Team Development Model, we also look at time and morale. Here in the Forum both Time and Morale are of no consequence. We have seen old threads dug up and given another look. Only the other week someone dug up a thread that WHEELER had posted. They were in agreement with something that he had posted. They didn't care that it was an old thread. As for Morale, this is a screen which I can turn off and no one is any the wiser and no one really cares. Much as I hate to blow my own trumpet, I do think that I have a good understanding of the Wood Badge syllabus. I wish there was a protected folder or what ever it's called, like we have for the OA, where we could really talk about the real meanings of how we see the course, without ruining the course for those who have yet to take it. Of course each and every Course Director, has his staff bring out what he sees the meaning to be. I never ever thought of allowing my staff to use the Tuckman rhyming Team Development. As you know Bob there are parts of the course that I hope will get tweaked and improved. Still Team Development and the Team Development Model is not one of them. Unless of course you can make a argument that will make me change my mind. As of now I'm happy to go with Blanchard. Eamonn.

John you lost me about half way through that long posting. In the defense of Training's. One thing that is missing is that the participants don't seem to take notes like they used to. I don't agree with the Cubmaster being that important. Our Den Leaders work with these little fellows for about 90 minutes every week the Cubmaster gets 90 minutes a month. If the Cub Scout training isn't as good as we would like I think the Pack Trainer would be a position of "Power"? Sad thing about an all day course is that there is just too much stuff to take in and Cub Scouter's have enough on their plate without adding more. If we can get the Pack Trainer on the job, we will see better results. Round-Table meetings are run for Cub Scout leaders. In our District these are run on next months theme. In our hypothetical pack, it is too easy to say that this doesn't happen in the real world. If we want to ensure that we are delivering a good program we need good leaders. This means that they have to be selected. The Cubmaster is not a part of the selection. This is up too the COR and the CC. They select the Cubmaster. It is a sad fact that so many units cry out for help and accept any warm body. At times knowing little or nothing about the "New Leader". Then when things don't go well it seems to be a big surprise. Before I would put my dog in a kennel,I would check it out and find out as much as I could about the people who run it. I would ask people who had knowledge about the owners what they thought. But it seems many packs are willing to allow the new person that they don't know from Adam to take charge of a Den with only a criminal back ground check and three references that they supply. Give me a active trained CC any day of the week. A person who will follow the selection of Quality Leaders guide and do each and every step.A CC, who will select a honest and hard working Treasurer along with other Committee Members. These good people will manage the pack and allow the Program to be delivered to the boys, by freeing the leaders from the fund raising and paper work, these good people will provide the resources needed by the program people to do the job of delivering the program. And yes I am biased I see my role as a District Chairman very much like theirs. Eamonn.

I thought this was dropped before everyone had a chance to reply. Eamonn

It is hard to say how much of each dollar goes to each unit. Here in PA. There is a number that you can call in order to get the financial report from charities. I have to admit to never having called it. A few years back I had a Scoutmaster who had very strong feelings about both the District and the Council. To say that he didn't like either would be an understatement!! He said to me that he never ever used the Council. I asked if any of his Scouts had ever become Eagle Scouts? A loaded question as I knew that the troop had a first rate program and had seen a good many boys become Eagle Scouts. He of course said yes. I asked if he had ever called the Council Service Center. Again he said yes. I continued asking If he expected someone to answer the phone, if that person was paid, if the building was heated, if he expected there to be records of the merit badges that the Scouts the boys had earned on the path to Eagle Scout. Of course he answered yes to every question. We played the same game with camp. Again he said yes to everything. I ended by saying that for someone that never ever used the council he seemed to be getting more than what he was paying for. While your son might not have attended the Council camps this year, if they are going to be there when he moves to Boy Scouts, we need to keep them in good repair and ready for the big day when he does use them. Each District has a DE, most districts in the council which I'm in do not raise enough money to even pay the salary of the DE. While you may not call or meet the DE in person, I will bet that the Cubmaster has had to call him or her. Many of the people who donate money to the Council don't do so to support their child, they see their donation as helping support the BSA at a local level and support the values that the BSA stands for. I like to think that we in some way help each and every youth that joins the BSA. Sure the longer he is in Scouting the more opportunities we have to work with him or her, and for him or her. While the program delivery is very much in the hands of the volunteer leaders, these leaders are supported by the Districts and Councils. If you have the time you might want to attend the New Leader Essentials,training that districts and councils offer a few times a year. There is a very interesting session that is part of this course, titled "Who Pays For Scouting." It would be a great first step for you to become involved with the pack or some other part of Scouting. Maybe on a committee of some sort. Of course the more involved you become the more it will seem that both you and your son are getting more "Bang for your Buck"!! Eamonn

Hi Free Birdie, Some of the profits from the popcorn goes to the council. Sometimes a parent doesn't see why the council needs money or where they spend it. I don't know anything about your council and can't say where they spend the money or how much they need. The council which I'm in has a budget of over one million dollars. We do receive some funding from the United Way. This amount has not gone up for a number of years. There is some money coming in from grants. Other money comes from the sales of uniforms and the like in the council shop. The money is spent on staffing the council. Each District has a DE. He or She is there to support the district where your pack is. There is the cost of running the Council Service Center, this would include the other professionals and the office staff. There is also the cost of running the properties owned by the council. Sure there is a cost for attending the camps but most councils do not include maintenance and the replacement of equipment. Our little council has a small camp which has 27 roofs. All of which has a life expectancy of about 15 years, at some stage these will need replaced. The dishwasher in the camp a $20,000 piece of equipment will one day go to the happy Dish-washing home in the sky. The Council has a Executive Board, made up from volunteers, these people watch over how this money is spent like a hawk. Most Councils do ask that the families to help out. Once a year they ask for an invitation to visit the unit and make a FOS presentation. At this time they will ask the families that are served to make a financial contribution to the council. Some Councils have another sale to help the council. Our/my Council does not we only have the Popcorn sale and the FOS. There are other fund raising events, golf outings and dinners, which raise money. These normally are aimed at community businesses. The price tags can be high, our dinner is $175.00 a plate and some of the golf events go for $600.00. Your writing a check for $100.00 will go a long way to help the pack, but will not help the council. I would hope that if you don't want to participate in the Popcorn sale, that you would remember the council when the FOS presenter comes to your pack. It is costing over $100.00 a year per child for the council to offer the services that are offered for your son. Eamonn.

While I can understand the need for uniforms. I do admit to thinking that most adults can given a little time get their own. I also question why a troop would want to go with Vintage Uniforms? If the equipment is from the 1960's, it has served it's useful lifespan and is ready to be replaced. As a troop with only ten Scouts, I would be spending my time building up the troop, looking to the future not playing with some idea of a Scouting Reenactment. The little guys who cross over next spring will hopefully already be wearing the tan shirt. Your goal is to make them feel as welcome and become a part of the troop as quickly as possible. I strongly suggest you drop this foolishness and get on the ball with the running of the troop. Maybe a couple of fund raising events that would enable everyone to get a new uniform. Eamonn.

Thanks for the help. A pal of mine on the other side of the pond, where believe it or not cell phones are "Bigger" there than they are here. (Sit on the underground, people used to read the paper or do the cross word - Now everyone stares at their cell phone!!) He now sends a text message to all of his Scouts to remind them about events and the like. The cost is for the message, not how many people you send it too. As far as I know none of the leaders in our district are doing this yet. I think it is really neat. He also has all the Scouts home numbers in the memory of his phone. What a wonderful safety tool. The summer of 2002 we spend some time with his troop at their summer camp. The day we arrived the Patrol Leaders had organized a hike (Six miler is a requirement for their equivalent of Second Class) As ever one Patrol was a little late returning. The SPL, phoned the PL, the delay had something to do with a pig, a hen and a dog?? I never did hear the full story. They have accepted the fact that all the Scouts have cell phones and are using them as part of the program. I loved the text message idea. OJ, and his pals use it a lot. I can text message him from my computer. Sad thing is that most adults I know don't know how to use it. We could make it work for us to remind our kids and never have to hear "I forgot" ever again!! Well that might be wishful thinking. We are moving more and more toward acceptance of all this new "stuff". Troops and packs are using software and computers to track advancement. Our Merit Badge list can be E-mailed to a Scout in a couple of clicks. We have on-line training's. Power-point presentations. Web sites and web pages. I have to admit that when I came across two families that don't have an E-mail address I was a little surprised. I would be interested to hear how you are using this "New Age" stuff to improve your programs. Eamonn.

I had a pal come around to do some work on my old computer. He managed to screw it up that I will have to take it to the store. Everything is in or on the old computer. Most of the really important stuff is safe on little Jump disks. I however never worked out a way of backing up my address book. All of my addresses are safe and sound in that old computer. Rebuilding the address book has been and is an ongoing chore. I spent a little while adding the Jamboree Troop to the address book and for some of the participants I have the address of both the parent and the boy. As a rule I have just added everyone Parents, Scouts, and anyone else who has anything to do with an event to a group. My thinking being that if someone doesn't want it they will just hit the delete. For a couple of Scouts I only have their E-mail addresses. Do you think I should also get their parents E-mail address? My son has more E-mail addresses than you can count. Hot mail, Yahoo, even an OA E-mail address. I don't know half of them (I'm not sure that he knows all of them) Most of what I send out is details of what, where and when. I also send a Monthly News Sheet, which is more for the parents than for the Scouts, hard copies are available at every Troop meeting. I do like E-mail because it's cheap,quick and easy. I don't like that even with return receipts,it seems very much a one way communication. When you send E-mails do you send them to the Scout the parent or both? (How do you make a copy of your address book?) Eamonn. PS: I miss my Windows 98 this XP take a little getting used to.

Bob, While I agree with what you have posted. This will only work in you are a member of the Lions Club. Also while it is desirable that the Committee Chair. Also be a Lions Club member, it is not a requirement. And yes I do know that you were giving your opinion for this hypothetical pack, and not quoting policy. Eamonn

I feel sorry that you are unhappy with the way your Council handles the Jamboree selection process. We do have a Jamboree Committee. All the guys who sit on this committee have had previous Jamboree experience, many will be attending the Jamboree as Staff Members. Our selection of youth is very easy. It is first come first served. There really is no selection. The parents are informed about the payment schedule and are given a outline of what other expenses they will run into. All the Scoutmasters are asked to encourage any and all of the Scouts to apply and are made aware that money is available to help boys who need help. We are a small Council with only four Districts. We send two troops to the Jamboree. We divide the Council into two halves. Until the troops get their troop numbers they are called the North Troop and the South Troop. The selection of Jamboree Adult Leaders, is started by a notice in the Council Newspaper. All interested leaders are asked to apply. Sad to say we were not over burdened with applicants. We had a lot of people who wanted to be the 3rd Assistant. Most of these were young guys who attended last time. We as a Council do try and send a leader who has attended before, hopefully a leader who was an ASM. Sad to say none of the people who attended the 1997 Jamboree came back in 2001. All of the Leaders were new. Both the Scoutmasters asked the Jamboree Committee if it would be possible for them to return in 2005. I was one of the Scoutmasters. We felt that while the Jamboree was a great experience for everyone that attended in 2001, we could do a better job if we were allowed to return. As things worked out we had a hard time filling the positions that were left. I am sure that there are a lot of reasons why. I did hear that some leaders felt it was too much money. Some Leaders didn't want to use that much vacation time, while others didn't want to not miss out on their troops summer camp. Our South Troop now troop 412, asked for youth applicants from both districts. For some unknown reason only one Scout from one of the Districts applied. All of us, the Leaders, the Jamboree Committee were really surprised with this and did make special trips to the Round-table meetings to try and drum up support all to no avail. Both troops have now been full for over a year, we have a waiting list. Some of those that are now going were on the waiting list have now moved up to become troop members. There are still four boys on the list. We feel sure that we will be able to find spots for them with near by Councils that will not fill all of their spots. Eamonn.

Hey Unc, Last week it was Latin and now we are going to do Italian? Mich, If you look around the English scouting web pages and find their "Scout Stuff" pages you will see that they are still selling Patrol Tents. Yes the entire patrol shares a tent!! They are six men tents. A lot of people will say that Scouting had to cross the big pond to be improved. But them there Brits did start the game. I did at one stage in this thread try and say that we all have to be flexible. We do what is best for the Scouts. If come spring you have 12 Webelos Scouts cross over you might want to go with two patrols of six. If you only have nine you might want to go with one patrol. You asked for what each of us thought was the patrol size we would shoot for, because you were taking a survey. Put me down for SIX. Eamonn.

While looking at the Jamboree pages on the BSA, National site, I clicked on the 2003 Annual Report and then went page on Leadership.There is a very nice story about National Capital Council.It covers how the Council has one of the most active district leadership cores in the country. The council serves over 54,600 youth members in traditional Scouting programs with over 20,000 adult scouter's. The article goes on to say how the growth is primarily due to the Councils district operations policy.The Council maximizes service by dividing districts when they meet National Benchmarks. It goes on to state that there is a goal to provide one DE for every 40 -60 units or 1,000 youth members and a 1-to-3 ratio of volunteers to scouts. I do think that the Council deserves a pat on the back for reaching so many youth members. I have not checked out National Capital Council web page but a council with 55 DE's? Wow!! But wait later on it goes on to say that over the past 13 years the Council has gone from 13 to 26 districts, with five service areas. I have never seen the National Benchmarks for Districts. Math may not be my best subject but with 54,615 youth and 26 districts they have a little over 2,100 youth members in each district. I can't help feeling that I'm missing something? Mean while back in our sleepy little hamlet we have 44 units and 943 youth members with more on the way!! I don't have on hand the count of volunteers that we have in the district, but I kind of think that we are above the 1-to-3 ratio. I also don't at this time have a count of the total youth membership in the Council. We as a district have a DE along with the services of a Field Director (well - we will have after Nov 1st.) A Program Director and a Scout Executive. There is no way that we have 54,000 + youth members, but we don't have districts with over 2,000 youth members. I wonder why National chose to put a council that clearly is not meeting what they clearly state (One DE per 1,000 youth members) is the goal as the poster child? Where do I get a copy of the National Benchmarks for Districts? While I can see the advantages of large councils, I have to wonder if 54,600 is maybe too large? I do think that our council with 10,600 total youth membership of which about half are traditional members, with the other half belonging to LFL programs is maybe too small. Still a Council ten times the size of ours? Boy that scares the pants off me!! My big concern is of course money. If we only have a traditional membership of 5,300 and we have a annual budget of over 1.2 million dollars, we are a very expensive commodity.$4.00 a week per member is a lot of money. I do know that I'm not including the money for the LFL programs, but even $2.00 a week is high. I suppose with us being at over 5,000 traditional youth members, we ought to be thinking about preparing for a new district. Which would of course cost even more money. Eamonn.