Eamonn

He flits from shop to shop just like a butterfly. In matters of the cloth he is as fickle as can be, 'Cause he's a dedicated follower of fashion. He's a dedicated follower of fashion. He's a dedicated follower of fashion. Written by: R. D. Davies OK, most of our Scouts and some of us are not as bad as the person described in the song. I like clothes and at times will admit to being a label wearer. In outdoor clothes I like clothes that have Columbia or North Face on the label. I really don't know if they are any better than other outdoor clothes, I just expect them to be.I like jackets by Burberry jackets, but the price tags are out of sight (625 Pound Sterling!!) Over the years I have been told that my hair has been too long, too short. My shoes were going to ruin my feet, break my ankle (Yes I wore the platform shoes) My pants have been too narrow, too wide, too long or too short. One of the things about going to schools that had strict uniform polices was finding a way around the rules, worse still was trying to get my parents to pay for these rule bending items. How I loved my merchant navy blazer, with the brass buttons, my pants that were flared. We wore our ties in something we called Kipper ties - Not tucked through the knot. Looking back I'm not sure if looking cool was as important as beating the system. Her That Must Be Obeyed, is not into clothes, hates shopping and tells everyone that Mall is a four letter word. Give her a sweat shirt and pants and she is fine. OJ, is not as conscious of clothes as I was at his age. He seems to be picky about his shoes, I'm not sure what that is all about. So far he has never gone above $40.00 for the shoes he wears to school. Right now he isn't sure if he likes Country and Western Music or Rap -Hip-Hop. He knows that I don't have much time for either. I do try and have looked for and bought a couple of Rap CD's that aren't that bad. A little while back I found a lot of really nasty stuff on his computer, which I deleted. I really don't want that stuff in our home. The TV was on the other night, one of the late shows was on some well known Rap group that I had never heard of sang a song. The lead singer was dressed in clothes that all were about half a dozen sizes too big. He had a baseball cap over some red thing which I'm guessing was a hankie? and the cap peak was over his left ear. Either Leno or Letterman spoke with this guy after the song and said that he had heard that this band had a beef with some other band the whole thing was much akin to professional wrestling. Still looking at some of the stuff Mick Jagger wore on stage are these guys that different? I can live with most of the stuff that OJ wants and does. His Mother had a fit when he came home with the top of his head dyed yellow!! I have said no to tattoos and piercing. Even little ear rings.These things are a little to permanent for me and the idea of eating dinner with a Lad with a bone through his nose would put me off my Shepperd's pie. We are in the kid business and kids will follow the fads and trends of the day. We need to remember the things that we did and get past the things that we don't like. In an other posting someone said that it's not the uniform it's the Lad inside the uniform, I say the same thing about the baggy pants and the cap worn the wrong way. Eamonn.

I am with Fuzzy and the planning that needs to be done. When I look at District Camporees and the troops in the District I see some troops that never ever miss one. Sad to say for one or two of them this is the only outdoor activity that the Scouts get to participate in.Members of the District Committee do have to remind me about these Troops when I start going on about how I don't want the District to get in the way of the Troop program. We have troops that have not attended a Camporee in a long time, some because they are too busy, some because they never do anything, some because at some time in history someone got upset about something. We also have the troops that look at what the Camporee is doing and what they are doing and someone (The PLC??) decides what they will do. One of the Camporees that had the best attendance was a Camporee that had a Sports Theme. Of course some SM's were upset that we weren't doing Scoutcraft type activities. One that the Scouts really seemed to enjoy was a night hike, with activities /problem solving along the way. Our best attended District event is the District First Aid meet. We need to do a better job of planning the events in advance and letting the troops know what we will be doing. Eamonn.

We have a Council Vice-President of Operations. He is a very nice chap,before taking on operations he was the Council Camping Chair and before that the High Adventure Chair. He is a very busy fellow in the real world he owns a very successful business, which keeps him really busy. I have never really worked out what he is supposed to do!! I have yet to read the job description for the position. I look at what he does as being the person that the District Key3 turns to for help and advise. We as a district key3 oversee the operations of the District. Membership, Finance,Program and Commissioner Service. The Council has a long term plan, which needs to be explained to us. The Council has a budget and we as a District have to raise our share of the money to help make ends meet. The Council has membership needs that we have to help meet. We used to have about 4 meetings a year to look at how things were going and where we were going. Sad to say we have only met once this year, there is a meeting on the calender for later this month, but I hear it has been canceled. While we (Me) do tend to look at Quality District as being the "Big Goal" that we go for. This might not be what the Council needs. We might be happy trying to end the year with plus one in membership, but one of the other Districts might have suffered some kind of set back and if the Council is going to make Quality Council we might have to look at setting a bigger goal. I really don't like or want to fight with the Scout Executive about our District Finance Goals. It tends to become a him and I fight. I think that I know what is going on in the District and can set goals that are realistic. I think that he only sees the need for the money. I would much sooner take the him and I out of it and attend a meeting where I can explain why we have come up with the amounts that we have, explain what help we need from the professional Staff or the Board.Maybe one of the other Districts could look at doing a little more so that the money is still going to be there. I see the Council Vice President of Operations as being the "COR" that links the Districts to the Council. His main job would be ensuring that there are open lines of communication between the Districts and the Council. There are times when the Council fails in its duty to support the Districts and we District Guys get very upset. For example our Council Membership Committee has not met in 13 months. We now have the professionals running around doing all sorts of stuff, their expectation is that we will support them 100%. But they are now telling us what they want and what they want done. I have a problem with this, as some of what they are trying to do is just plain wrong and I do not want anything to do with it!! Also if these guys are doing all this without any input from us, what ever happened to the idea of this being a partnership? I do not agree that they should say "Jump" and we ask "How High?". Measuring success is difficult. Everything would come down to the plan: 1/Where do we want to go from here? 2/What things will we do when we get there? 3/When will these things occur? 4/ What will each person do? While the meetings are important, the real work is the stuff that happens between the meetings. Making sure that each person is completing the tasks that they undertook is very important. Knowing and sharing where do we want to go from here? So that people buy into and feel that they have ownership of the plan is a very big job and does fall down to the leader. In our Council the Council Vice President of Operations also takes responsibility for presenting the District Training Workshop. One big thing that I forgot to add to the list is : How will we know when we have got there? The goals will come from what your vision and mission are. The top three skills I see that you will need to employ are: 1/ Communication. 2/ Intelligent Planning. 3/ Making people accountable for completing assigned tasks. (Leadership.) Good Luck in your new position, under your leadership the Council could reach new heights and do more to serve the youth in your area. Eamonn.

One of the Scouts who attended the 2001 Jambo presented me with a photo of myself along with two of the ASM's all wearing our Jambo blue ball caps backward and all three of us wearing dark glasses. We were attending the closing show and were just having some fun. I don't like hats or caps and hate wearing one. I think that wearing one backward is OK depending on the time and the place. A Lad chopping wood or reading a map - I don't have a problem. Wearing it backward at colors - Is not the right time or place. The pants thing is already on the way out. So I'm informed by my 16 year old fashion adviser! He now has a new thing with the shirt, he tucks it in and then half un-tucks it, so it sort of hangs over his belt. Watching him go through this shirt tucking and un-tucking ceremony was a new one on me. I attended our Lodge August OA weekend, he is busy at these weekends and has very little to do with me. On the Saturday before supper there was the flag ceremony. He was in charge of the color guard. I heard him tell one of the officers of the Lodge that he couldn't be part of the ceremony because he wasn't in full uniform. All the Scouts who he selected were in full correct uniform. I agree that we need to keep everything is perspective and we do deal with the wants and needs of each Scout as an individual. The little Lad that is wearing the shirt is fine so long as there is a long or short term goal to get him into the rest of the uniform. I don't see in the passage that was taken from the training anyplace where it says "Don't wear the uniform" In fact I see "The uniform is of value to the extent that it encourages boys to grow as Scouts, leaders, and young men. As saying Hey do what you can to get these Lads in a uniform, it is a good tool. While the wants and needs of the individual are way up there on my list we do need to keep that in perspective. If a normal healthy Lad is having a problem with a requirement we can't advance him in order that he will feel good. If he doesn't get on with the adults in the troop, we aren't going to remove them. We aren't going to cancel Summer Camp because he doesn't like to camp. We aren't going to allow him to change Patrols, because the Scout who was elected Patrol Leader wasn't the one that he wanted. Part of being a Scout is accepting the ideals of Scouting. I, as most people in these forums know am not for long lists of rules, guidelines; dress them up with any title you like. I do feel that every Scout and every Scout parent is aware that Scouts and Scouting is a uniformed organization. Most of us are willing to get past the little Lad who is on his way to get a uniform. However, OJ was right on the money when he wouldn't allow non-uniformed Scouts to take part in the OA flag ceremony. Each and every Scout there must have belonged to this organization long enough to acquire a uniform. They choose not to wear it. I can maybe get past these Lads not owning a pair of long pants, but it was warm enough for them to still wear shorts. I am really surprised how moans and groans I'm hearing from the parents of the Scouts attending the next Jamboree, when I explain that their son will be in a uniform for the entire time that we are away. I have to wonder what these Scouts wear when they are away with their home troop? I don't care what we call it but every uniform we have calls for socks, pants and belt, the only thing that changes is the shirt. We now have lots of socks to choose from. OJ likes them silly ones that you can hardly see. Thanks to his participating in the Jamboree he does have a couple of extra Scout Shirts. He only recently out grew the one that he got as a Webelos Scout.He looked like an over stuffed sausage, so we donated it to the troop uniform bank. He used to steal my socks, but I like the long socks and they are not cool. For NOAC we did need to buy a couple of new pairs of shorts. They cost about a little less than half what we spend on his soccer shoes /boots. I added his old shorts to my pile as they still fit me. I don't see finding a uniform for a Lad as a problem. The problem is that we are not doing a good enough job of making our Scouts want to wear it. Eamonn.

Thanks Laurie, I wasn't sure if it was just me being cheap. OJ and Her That Must Be Obeyed tell me that I'm a master of the cheap o's. I of course tell them that I'm just frugal. Eamonn.

I seen a photocopy of part of a catalog showing the stuff that is being sold for the Cub Scout 75 Anniversary. I was shocked to see that the patch is costing $3.95. While I admit that I didn't look at the size of the patch or how many colors or all the other things that add to the cost of a patch. But having done a little bit of patch ordering $3.95 seemed really high. I don't know how many were ordered but I'm guessing the order was a big one. What a shame some of the money isn't going to some other good cause. While I know that we are a good cause and we always need money, I just think that if we donated the 95 cents from the sale of each patch to World Friendship Fund I would feel better. Maybe me complaining about the cost of a patch is a sure sign that I'm on my way to becoming an old fogy ? People said that I was a pain in the neck before!! Eamonn.

Hi Hunt, Our District Advancement Chair. was really busy this year building a new house, so I got to sit in on a lot more BOR's than I normally would do. We do look at the project and spent a little time asking about his part in it, things like "How did it feel to be the leader?" What would you have done differently? We look back over his Scouting Career, and chat about his MB's which was the easiest? Which was the hardest? What did he enjoy most /least about Scouting. I ask (One of my!! questions "If we were to add a new Scout Law what do you think it would be? If we were to take one out, which one would go? We chat about his POR's in the troop? I like to ask about the people who have helped him get this far. We talk about what comes next? Depending on his age. College? Job? Remaining active? I know most of the Lads that we have coming up about now, I have seen them since they were little fellows attending Day Camp and at Camporees. I always went out of my way to come across as a nice friendly old chap!! It would be wrong of me to try and come across as something else. I try to set the tone as if this was a friendly job interview. Many times the poor Lad is very nervous and some have a hard time remembering their own name!! There does need to be some sense of decorum, it would be very unfair for the a Lad to sit through a overly friendly chat and then come back to find that he wasn't successful !! I have while the chair hasn't been there met with the Scout before and explained that this is a review and we are trying to find out as much as we can about him, that we are not there to trip him up or trap him. I explain how the board works and what will happen if he is successful, I also cover what happens should he not be successful. I ask if there is any questions. Eamonn.

Given the choice I would much sooner see a twit commissioner than a twit unit leader. Rarely if ever will a Commissioner be the reason that makes a Lad quit Scouting. It is a lot easier to remove a commissioner than it is a unit leader. In our District we are replacing our District Commissioner. He is a super nice guy, larger than life a real fun person, but a lousy District Commissioner. I really like him and I have the sad job of informing him that the Nominating Committee has replaced him. The guy before him spent a long time trying to get the units to see that the Commissioner Staff were there to help and serve them and not look at Commissioners as some sort of Nasty District Spies. District Commissioner meetings spent as much time on training commissioners as it did on anything else. The poor commissioners were drilled in the fine art of being a friend of the unit and the term "Warm and Cuddly" became a catch phrase. Sad to say over the past couple of years all this went out the window. For a while we had a band of idiots who came across as being more like Storm Troopers than Friends. Friendly Service gave way to Egotistical intimidation. In another thread someone brought up perspective. I don't ever fear that Scouting will become some kind of cut and paste or cookie cutter program, I never thought it was designed to be that way and I believe that we have a vast resource in the individuals that lead the programs and the people both adult and youth that are in the programs, each and everyone of them bring so much and offer so much that no two anythings are ever the same. Even highly planned and highly structured things and events don't end up as copies of the last one. There are troops that attend the same summer camp year after year, some go the same week and use the same site, the program at the camp in some camps doesn't change that much if at all!! But each camp is different. We have different Scouts who see things in different ways, they have different needs and do things differently. One year the group that sits around the dying embers of a camp fire will try and tell funny jokes, the next year even the same group will exchange deep and meaningful thoughts and express their feelings, their hopes and joys. I for a long time have been involved in Wood Badge training, the course is skilfully scripted but I have yet to see any two courses be the same. Playing this game by the rules doesn't institutionalize or take away from the creativity of the leaders or the youth, it does help direct their skills, creativity and enthusiasm toward the vision and mission of the BSA. If these leaders can't agree to tow that line, then they really are in the wrong organization and they do need to look at spending their time some place else. Someone brought up, I think it was a question: If some Scouting is better than no Scouting? Or maybe it wasn't a question and said something about some Scouting for some boys?I'm too lazy to look it up!! I have to admit that I'm struggling with that. I don't care how good a troop might be at doing something ( I think that I'm still a traditionalist and still like the idea that Lads join Scouting to discover Scoutcraft - A word I don't hear very often. Scoutcraft to me is a combination of observation, deduction, and handiness, or the ability to do things. Scoutcraft includes instruction in Safety First methods, First Aid, Life Saving, Tracking, Signaling, Cycling, Nature Study, Seamanship, Campcraft, Woodcraft, Chivalry, Patriotism, and other subjects. This is accomplished in games and team play, and is pleasure, not work for the Lad.)I think how the got to be good is more important than just having these skills.Good old Sister Mary Matthew, if she had the skills could have pounded away! and taught a classroom full of boys the skills but her methods would not make them Scouts. A herd of Lads who wear a Scout uniform and turn up for every meeting on time and play basketball every meeting because there is no other planned activity are not a troop (In Eamonn's Book) The Lads that arrive at the meeting hall and are put into the weekly Merit Badge Class are not Scouting. I could go on. We do of course have troops that seem to specialize in certain areas and in a lot of cases that are is the same area that the SM or one of the other leaders has an interest in. In our District we have a troop that spends a lot of time water skiing. The leader has a power boat and land by a lake. The troop that has won the District First Aid meet for the past 3 years has a doctor for a Scoutmaster. They are using their resources, they still use the patrol method and employ the other Scouting methods. I can and do see that we can get a little carried away if and when we put all of our energy into one area. I'm all for the Patrol Method and allowing our Scouts to lead. There are times when we can over do it. We have a troop in the District that every winter goes to a near by camp site they book a big cabin. They call it a "Free Weekend" The leaders do the cooking buy the food and spend almost the entire weekend hanging out shooting the breeze. The Scouts bring all sorts of snow type stuff, sleds, saucers, snow boards. They have a great time building snowmen, having snowball fights and just having fun. A couple of years back one leader thought that a trip to a near by Flood Museum would add something to the weekend. The Scouts didn't ask to go, didn't want to go and as if to prove their point when the museum put on the 45 minute movie about the Flood they all fell asleep!! I think the idea of certified troops is a good one, I wonder if the Scouts who have taken the JLTC or the new course that is out could be involved? Eamonn.

Hi Ozemu, I don't know very much about Scouting in your fair Land. I kinda think that the set up you have is very much like what the Brits have or had. When I was a Leader of a troop in the UK, I was a leader who received a warrant from the Scout Association. In most cases the approval to become a leader came from the Group Scout Leader, who normally handed this to the Section leader (Cubs, Scouts or Venturing) In some cases for certain positions the approval might come from the district commissioner. In the UK there were and I think still is different types of Scout Groups. There are Open Groups:An Open Scout Group has no formal relationship with any other organization and has a policy of unrestricted recruitment. There were and are:Sponsored Groups Guidance on sponsoring agreements, responsibilities of sponsoring authorities and agreements with regard to property and equipment are contained within the fact sheet Community Sponsorship available from the Scout Information Centre. A Sponsored Scout Group can be sponsored by an organization approved by Headquarters. The Group will have a policy of recruitment defined in a formal agreement with the Sponsoring Authority. Examples of approved organizations include religious bodies, schools, industrial or commercial firms, residents' and community associations and formations of Her Majesty's Forces. In the case of a Sponsored Scout Group which is sponsored by a university, college or school, membership of the Group must be voluntary for the students or pupils of the Sponsoring Organization. Sponsored Scout Groups may have a policy of unrestricted or restricted recruitment as defined in a formal agreement between the District Executive Committee and the Sponsoring Authority. No restriction on recruitment may be made which contravenes the provisions of any law. The organization which sponsors the Group shall appoint a person or committee to act as the Sponsoring Authority. The District Commissioner must be informed of this appointment. In the event of a disagreement between the Sponsoring Authority and the Group Scout Leader, the matter must be referred to the District Commissioner. The group that I belonged to was an open group.We were very much on our own. Our Scout Group (Pack, Troop, and Venture Scout unit) Were the 17th Fulham (Pioneers) Of course we were members of the Scout Association and paid a annual fee for the privilege of being a member. But we didn't have a sponsor and did not have ties to any other organization. Here in the USA, that would never fly. (Sort of!!) Every Unit is chartered by an outside organization. (The sort of comes in because a group of people who agree with the values of the BSA can form their own Chartering Organization. In our District we had a Crew which was Chartered by a local coffee shop!! Sad to say the coffee sales weren't that great and the shop went belly up.) To be a unit leader in the BSA, you must first be approved by the organization that holds the charter. The Chartering Organizations do "Own" the units. They either at the local or at the National level decide that the program that is owned by the BSA is the program that they want for their youth. Looking at the list of the Top 10 Organizations: (My list is from 1/16/02 United Methodist Church: 12,163 units. Serving 408,629 youth. LDS Churches: 33,755 Units. Serving 406,260 youth. Public Schools, Board of Education: 10,566 units. Serving 383,657 youth. Roman Catholic Churches:9,603 units. Serving 339,846 youth. Parent Clubs in Schools:3,408 units. Serving 147,634 youth Lutheran Churches: 4,374 units. Serving 150,534 youth. Presbyterian Churches:3,955 units. Serving 139,333 youth Baptist Churches:5,040 units. Serving 115,562 youth. Business/Industry: 4,565 units. Serving 91,326 youth Lions International:2,907 units. Serving 90,905 youth. Getting used to the Chartering idea took me some time. The idea is a very good one. These Organizations share our values and see the value of the program offered by the BSA. They select a people of good character to deliver the program to the youth in their area. Most of the problems that arrive on my desk, both now and when I served as a District Commissioner are not to do with program, they have to do with people at the administration end not knowing or following the system. We have adults that can't get on. The District and the Council can help by offering to listen and maybe point out what might help. But we can't do much else. There are units that lose a leader or need leaders. We have a hard enough time filling all the District and Commissioner positions. We (The District or Council) Don't have a list of Leaders that are waiting for an opening. Filling these spots is up to the Unit Committee and the Chartering Organization. I know a lot of people, but if there is a good relationship between the Scout unit and the Chartering Organization, they working together will know people from within their ranks that share the values and understand something about either the Scout program and or the organization that holds the charter. We have people who just don't understand the way it works. A few years back a troop that had been meeting in a local church for eons started to have big problems with the new preacher. The troop leaders didn't see that they were part of the church and the preacher didn't see it either. The troop leaders wanted to take "their stuff" and "their kids" and move their troop someplace else. The Preacher couldn't see why the Scouts and the Cub Scouts could meet at the church and not pay any rent. The Charter Organization Representative was a long time member of the troop, but not active in the church. We met with the Preacher and explained that the Troop and the Pack were an extension of the churches youth ministry. We met with the Scouter's and explained that they were part of the church. They still didn't see it. They wanted it to be their troop. We did manage to find a working COR. He worked wonders improving the communications between the Church and the people working with the Scout programs. As it turned out the new Preacher didn't last long and the replacement was the father of an Eagle Scout. Many of the "Hot Head" Leaders have also gone. The troop has "Adopted" the church Cemetery and grounds. I met with the Church Council not so long back about starting a Venture Crew. This Church Committee is so proud of their troop and their boys. We now have a crew there and the everyone is happy. Many of the new boys are from the church, their parents have become involved in the Scout programs either as Committee members or as Leaders, some of these people also serve on the Church Committee. I really think that if the Chartering Organizations were more active in selecting the leaders that will will deliver the program to their youth, we would avoid a lot of problems. If our Scout people would turn to their Committee or the COR when they have a problem, before they phone the DE or the Council Office, things would run a lot better. It is a fairly safe bet that these Organizations will out live us and we need to do everything that we can to get them on board in order to ensure that Scouting in our localities will be here for the youth of the future. We say that we belong to a very loose ship and smile. We **** that the chartering organizations don't do enough for our units. We say that people who talk about working with these organizations are living in never , never land! But without them we don't have Scouting in the USA. These organizations are very well represented at the national level, we do need to do a better job of making them get involved at the District level. I would dearly love to see more COR's attend the District meetings and the Council AGM where they vote in the incoming officers. I wish that Unit Leaders would put pressure on the Troop and Pack Committee to ensure that the COR attends their meetings and takes their ideas and concerns to the District Committee meeting. Eamonn.

Eagle Scout is as far as I know the top rank only in the BSA. I was a member of the Scout Association in the UK and did reach Queen Scout, which is the highest rank over there when we have a Queen, when we have a King, it changes to King's Scout. At this time I am the father of a Lad who has been a Life Scout for a very long time. As his only American Uncle is an Eagle Scout and his American Grand Dad was an Eagle Scout, his mother is really pushing for him to make the grade.She has gone as far as buying the napkins and has the guest list ready for his Eagle COH. He has everything done and is a really good Scout. He has at his disposal an outstanding net work of people who are ready and willing to help and support him, but he still needs to do the Leadership Service Project. He is too busy doing other stuff right now and when he hasn't been too busy has gone through periods of idleness. He tells me that he is going to do it when he gets time. I think he will. If and when he does I will be a very proud Dad. If for some reason he doesn't, he will still have been a good Scout and will have got a lot out of Scouting. He has already voiced the idea that he would like to be a leader and does like working with Scouts. He will be 17 in July. I kinda think that he might wrap this up before the Jamboree, but that's up to him. He knows that I think that this is his goal and his Eagle if he wants it he has to go for it. Eamonn

Wrong as I know it is, I do whole heartedly believe that Barry and the troop that he serves are very much in touch with the methods of Scouting. I enjoy his postings tremendously, while we may not see eye to eye on the delivery of the program, I think that we are both heading in the same direction. I really admire the fact that his postings are always in good humor and have nothing to do with ego. This entire Scout "Thing" Is a game and is supposed to be fun. Yes fun with a purpose. But if we forget the fun part all the scouts will go some place where they will find fun. Some time back I ran into a leader who informed me that Scouting was changing for the worse, because it was too much fun. I thought at first he was joking!! He wasn't. He went on for a bit and I found myself trying to get away from him as quickly as possible. We have a great opportunity to help the young people we serve be maybe a little better adults because they have been in this Organization and maybe because they respect us. Some of them will grow up and look back as I do on the guys who were my leaders some of these guys earned my respect for doing something special with or for me, some I just respect because they gave up their night in front of the telly to spend it with me and my mates. Sure I learned a lot of Scouting type skills, sad to say many of which I have never put to much use outside of Scouting, at least that's what I used to think. While I don't have much use in my day to day life for a Filipino lashing, I did learn a lot about myself and a lot about leadership building pioneering projects, I also had a lot of fun. Keeping things in perspective is very important. But this game isn't rocket science. Our Scouts know the people that care, they can sense it. You might be able to fool them for a little while but they will see through a phony. The back bone of what we are about can be found in the ideals of Scouting. I think that young people are willing to share their youth with us older guys is a wonderful privilege and I'm deeply honored that they do. Eamonn

If I wear a kilt would I be in Field Uniform, dress uniform, activity uniform or arrested for having legs that look like tooth-picks? Even though I have been informed that I have very sexy knees? Eamonn

I didn't see the idea that OGE proposed as the formation of any type of police force. I would like to see "Commissioners With Real Power". Units that lose youth members because the SM or Cubmaster is a twit and doing twitish things that cause youth to leave the program need to go. They are of no use. Leaders that are not even trying to use the methods of Scouting are not leading a Scouting program, let them do whatever it is they are doing some other place.They would be no great loss, they weren't Scouting in the first place. Eamonn.

Yes I do think that at times we are fortunate or lucky. The sad thing is that we can't relay on luck or good fortune.Finding the right Committee Chair, was luck. Having had to go through 3 before we got a good one was bad luck? Sure most people who join our ranks at the unit level do have sons in the program, matching these people to the right job takes management. I know of several really nice people who just don't have what it takes to be the SM, but would make ideal ASM's. When I see people serving in multiple positions I see a disaster waiting to happen. It's not good for the person doing it and will in the end bite us in the tail. We have people who are good at what they are doing and we put pressure on them to do something else or fill the vacant position, we then wonder why it didn't work? How often do we see in these forums "Our Chartering Organization does nothing for us"? Surely we must see that if the owner of the unit isn't involved and doesn't care we are on shaky ground from the get go. When we look at a committee that is made up of leaders, who takes over when the leaders leave? If we stand back and look at the unit we love and ask where will this unit be in 5 years and then in ten years? Surely we have no other choice but to fix the things that aren't right. Some Packs and Troops take a lot of pride in their past, we need to take pride in their future. Sure we might not be there for one reason or another but if we are really going to serve the youth we need to ensure that the unit has every chance to continue long after we have gone. Eamonn.

Most of us know that wearing or owning a uniform is not a requirement to be a member of the BSA. A great many adults who serve the BSA away from the Unit Level rarely if ever wear a uniform. Most adults who serve at the Cub Scout and Boy Scout level are aware that Uniform is a method of the program. Wearing the uniform is an outward sign of the individuals acceptance of the ideals of Scouting. Many Parents do not know that uniform is not a requirement for membership. There is some confusion as to what is the uniform. The Cub Scout Leader Book says that the uniform should only be worn as the complete uniform. Most of us would use the Uniform Inspection Sheet as our guide. I have to admit that I am surprised at how many adults wear the shirt and what ever pants come to hand, in the District that I serve blue Jeans seem to on hand. I would much sooner see adults not in uniform than in parts. These parts are not uniform. Still that is just me. I did get really upset when I was Council Training Chair and looked in on a District Boy Scout Specific Training and there was a Trainer doing the uniform presentation while not wearing uniform pants. I just don't know how anyone could even think of doing such a thing? We have four troops in the area where I live. The Scouts all attend the same high school and recruit from the same area. The town is small with 4,600 living in it. So the troops have a good cross section of the population in each troop. One troop is 100% uniformed, two are half and half, one seems to wear the activity uniform year round. No troop can claim that they are catering to financially challenged kids. The Scouts are following the example set by the leaders and the leaders are telling the parents that not wearing the pants is acceptable. The last Eagle Scout BOR that I sat in on had 3 Lads in the "Hot Seat" One had on a brand new pair of Scout trousers. He had sent his Mother to the Scout Shop that day. She had bought them hemmed them and pressed them. One Lad had the shirt and a pair of baggy shorts. His Father is the SM. The other had the shirt and blue Jeans, his Dad is an ASM, in the troop that OJ belongs!! In the letter that we send out we ask the Scout to wear his uniform if he has one. I happen to think that we ask the Scouts to wear their uniform too much. While it looks great on the parade ground at summer camp, I don't find it very practical for doing much else in. Knowing what to wear and when to wear it is a life lesson that everyone needs to learn. I have always seen our job as adults as trainers and guides. Not as rule makers and enforcers. We set the example. Dressing for the activity and the weather is more important than just wearing the uniform.When the PLC meets to plan a program, we are there to guide them. Sometimes there are rules that state when a uniform should be worn. At summer camp, our Council had a rule that uniform was to be worn for breakfast and dinner. The Scout's complained saying that there wasn't time after breakfast to return to their sites and change for the activities they would be doing, so uniform at breakfast was dropped.Back home in England there was a rule that all Scouts arriving at a National Camp site were to arrive in uniform. We of course followed the rule, but for a normal weekend camp out the only time that the Scouts worn their uniforms was to attend Scouts Own. We didn't dress for meals. I have never had a PLC that went to the extreme that EagleKY fears. But lets take a look at it. The PLC says that wearing uniform is no longer required by troop 666. Where was the SM? Where was the guidance? Didn't he explain why we have a uniform and why we wear it? Let's for a minute say he did all this and it fell on deaf ears. Will he now explain that uniform is required at summer camp? That the uniform is the place to wear the badges that they work so hard to earn, is the PLC suggesting that we no longer work on rank advancements and merit badges? I feel sure that any SM worth his salt would be capable of guiding the PLC. If we train them, trust them and let them lead, I see no reason why they can't decide when to wear the uniform. If fact I wonder why anyone would be worried unless they haven't trained them? Or don't trust them? Or they are not allowing them to lead? After all it is their troop. I admire the troops that are doing everything that they can to help Scouts get a uniform. I will admit that I donate the uniforms that I come across to the Scouts that need them in our area, I think that we need to look after the kids in our neighborhood, because that is how things are set up. In my books we will have cracked the "Uniform Nut" when Scouts wear it because they want to wear it and are proud of it, not because some rule tells them that they have too. Doesn't this come under making ethical choices ? And isn't that what we are all about? Eamonn

Fred while you are right about the Cub Scout Leader book. There are different uniforms. We have the Field Uniform. Which most of us wear. There is the dress uniform that some professionals wear.(Blue Blazer, gray slacks and red/silver/ blue tie) The blazer can have BSA buttons and badge on the pocket) Some volunteers also wear this. What people call the Class B uniform, is the activity uniform, the same as the Field Uniform but the shirt is replaced by a Scouting type T-shirt. Eamonn.

There are it seems to me from reading the posting in this forum a fair sized group of Scouter's who seem to think that myself and people who think the way that I do are "Full Of It." (Whatever it might be!!) Or we are "Book Thumpers!" Or we don't Scout in the "Real World". Of course everyone is free to think what they like. I do honestly think that every Scouter who posts in this forum, even the misguided ones do have at heart the well being of the kids in their charge and the well being of this organization. Many have deep and wonderful feelings for the unit (Pack, Troop or Crew) in which they serve. I have to admit that having seen the District and Troop that I belonged too, not there anymore is painful. I of course cherish the memories of the Scouts that were in the troop, but the painful bit is knowing that it will never be there to serve the kids that are in the area in the days to come. As a Council and as a District we take the time to make long range plans. Some of these plans seem to be more of a wish list more than anything else. But having a plan does make things a lot easier. It is far better when someone comes along and says that they would like to make a donation if we can tell them where their money will be spent!! I still pay special attention to the pack that OJ belonged too and I served as Cubmaster. I am no longer a member of the pack, not on the charter or involved in the day to day operations. I do take pride in the fact that when the time came for me to go I left it in good shape. Relations with the church were far better, the COR was real and worked. The Pack Committee was a working committee and the leaders were committed to the program. Of course in a lot of these things it would seem that we were just lucky, we found the right people for the job. Still here we are years later and there has been 3 Cubmasters now on the 4th. The pack and the pack leaders started a troop and the troop has started a crew. If we really feel for the unit that we serve, we need to take time out and look in our crystal balls and think about what is going to happen in the future? We need to make long range, long term plans. If something isn't working we need to fix it. Sure these plans will be there long after we have moved on. But this "Loose Ship" is always in danger of sinking. If we have a Chartering Organization that doesn't seem to be taking any or very much interest in the Unit or Units that they charter we need to find a way of getting them on board. This might just mean working on the COR. Over the past month or so there has in our District been a situation in one of our units. I had several meetings with the Committees (Pack and Troop) They had a "Paper" COR who not only wasn't doing anything with the units, but when I asked the Executive Officer about him, the Executive Officer wasn't sure who he was!! Working with the Organization we found that there was an Ex-Scoutmaster who was a member of the organization, talking with him we found that he was willing to take on the job. With the pack we had a Parish Priest, that wasn't pro- Scouting, we had to win him and the parishioners over we did this by getting more involved with the activities of the church and making the pack more visible to the parishioners. Going from a Cubmaster ruled Pack to a Committee ruled pack wasn't easy. We went through 3 Committee Chairs till we found one that "Got it". Once the unit has a strong foundation and the unit has a strong and working committee, it can manage the change of leadership. The program people can work on delivering the program and working for the youth. Even when things don't go as they should the unit will survive, because the CO along with the Committee will see that it does. Sure you can make do and just serve the youth that are in the program today and not rock the boat but we need to do better than that. Eamonn.

I me mine, I me mine, I me MINE!! My Troop? MY program? My Rules? (Whatever happened to belonging to the BSA and serving the needs of the youth members?) How about letting the PLC decide when to wear what? Eamonn.

OGE is right. Call the Council Office (518-561-0360) and ask to talk to the District Executive, he or she might answer your question or give you the number of the District Advancement Chairman. Eamonn.

Post it notes on the cover of the book worked for us. We told the parents that the book was their mail box. Eamonn

I think the idea does have a lot of merit. While the Unit Commissioner can see things that might not be in line with certain areas of how it should be done. He can advise and offer to help, but when the SM or the Troop Committee informs him that "We don't do it that way" or offers some other excuse, there is nothing that the Commissioner Staff or the District Team can do. I think it would be wonderful to be able to meet with the CO and say "Hey your troop is certified Troop" Or if things are out of whack to be able to point out why they are not. Having served as a District Commissioner and having had to sit through meetings where the wrongs are spelled out by the Unit Commissioner,knowing that at the end of the report the final words will be "That's old Fred and he is never going to change." I do really like the idea and would hope that the Council and District's were kept at bay, so that it was entirely a Troop certification. Nothing to do with popcorn or FOS. We have a Free Advancement Program, in our Council. It started off as a small list of things that Units had to do in order to receive advancement patches for nothing. Over the years everyone added more and more items to the list. The Commissioners added on time rechartering, the popcorn selling was added as was inviting the FOS presenter, then membership was added, then Quality Unit was added and in the end the leaders just said "What the heck, it just isn't worth it!" I would just love to be a fly on the wall when a Webelos Scout parent asked one of the "We don't do it that way" Scoutmasters "Why aren't you certified?" I wonder what the answer would be? Eamonn.

Many Councils do have youth members on the board. They are not normally voting members. We in our Council do not have youth members. The Northeast Region Board does have the Region Chief Order Of The Arrow and a Venturing Youth Representative. They are group members of the Program Group. While we do not have youth members on our Executive Board, there is a youth member on the camping committee. The Council Camping Chairman is not on the Board, he reports to the Council Vice President for Program. No amouse,Patrol Leaders are not normally invited to attend Council Executive Board meetings, they tend to be very dull and boring. Believe me you are not missing anything good!! Eamonn.

Hi, I am one of those people in the forum that fotoscout describes as: " some here in the forum are adamant about selecting adults via the published BSA process." You do need to follow all the steps in order.Of course it isn't magic. A friend of mine who is a board member was asked to help the nominating committee in another District help them select a new District Chairman, the guy they ended up with was the tenth person that they selected. In your posting you don't say if you are the one that has been selected? Or if you think that you are going to be selected? While the District wants every unit to succeed, the District does not in any way own the unit. I'm sorry Fuzzy, but I have no idea where you got that idea. There are times when asked that the district will help with explaining how the process works, but the selection of quality leaders is entirely in the hands of the Chartering Organization and the Committee. Tim, I'm sure that you are a very nice fellow and do a great job with the Den you serve, however if I were part of the nominating committee that was looking for a new Cubmaster, I would be looking at people who have children in the Tiger or the Wolf Den. My thinking being that they would be around a lot longer than you will be. Looking at your options (I of course don't know much about the pack or about you!!) 1/ You could volunteer to be the next Cubmaster. 2/You could make it very clear that there is no way that you will take on being Cubmaster. 3/ Take a look at the BSA material on the selection of Quality Leaders and offer your services to help select a new Cubmaster. You could read the material and just hand it to the Pack Committee Chair. Or offer to sit on the nominating committee. I have at times gone against Her That Must Be Obeyed and taken on more responsibilities and more work, which has meant more meetings and more time away from home. I normally have done this because I wanted too. Of course there have been times when a change of position has meant less meetings and more time at home. I took the Cubmaster position because it involved less time than the Den Leader. I now as District Chair. spend a lot more time at home and doing Scouting "Stuff", than I used to spend when I was District Commissioner. If I don't take anything else on when my term is up and just serve on the Area Committee, I will spend even less. We do discuss what I will be doing and what impact it will have on the family. If you are happy doing what you are doing with the Den and really don't want to do anything else and the CO along with the Pack Committee are happy to recharter with you as the Den Leader, I would just say "Thanks but no thanks". Eamonn.

Now I feel really cheap!! All we gave our departing Webelos Scouts was a Scout Handbook and a pat on the back. The Lads who opted not to join a troop only got the pat on the back!! Oh Well, it's the thought that counts. Eamonn (Feeling like the Grinch who stole Cross over.)

Am I the only person that has problems with the MSN Scouts site? I have to refresh every page I try to visit and half the time end up at some page that isn't where I wanted to go. I tried to add some photos, there was a down load which informed me it was down loading, and would take 3-4 minutes and nothing happens. I did manage to get into the chat room, but didn't want to chat with that English nit with the same name as me!! In the end after 40 frustrating minutes I gave up. Heck I nearly lost my Christmas spirit. Eamonn.