Eamonn

When people tell me that I talk funny I tell them that my aim was to teach the Americans to speak English, but I gave up when I seen it was a lost cause!! Eamonn.

I didn't think about the "Highs and Lows". About this time every year I get really vexed when I see what underhanded shenanigans are going on in order for the Council to be Quality. How a value based organization can even think of so many ways of cheating and not playing by the rules really does get to me. Also about now I'm in my annual fight with the SE about our District goals. He won last year, however we didn't get all the money in that was pledged. So no one won and the kids lost out. People tell me that the Scout Exec. Is scared to death of me. I just hope things stay that way!! When I look at the 45 units in the District, I can very quickly label the good, the bad and the ugly. When I look at the volunteers, I can't think of any one of them as being bad. In fact most of them are my friends. I still really enjoy kids. Just listening to them chat and laugh is a pleasure. Watching them turn from Tigers to Scouts is really worth while. Having a little Lad come up to me and say Hi, when I'm standing in a check out line and feeling grumpy, helps the line move faster. Feeling sure that no matter what the guys at the top are trying to pull,that the young Lad in Cub Scouts will do his best and the Eagle Scout at the BOR is sincere when he tells me that he is doing his best to live the Scout Oath and Law. Having spent so much time, with so many fine and wonderful people. People who really know how to have fun and really enjoy life. I have to say that I do really enjoy Scouting. I enjoy life and Scouting is a big part of my life. So put me down for the full 10. Eamonn.

Hi and Welcome. One of my favorite questions when I sit on Eagle Scout BOR's is to ask the Lad if he thinks that when he has kids that he will allow them to join Boy Scouts? I have as yet to hear a No. Of course the next question is will you be joining him? So far every Lad has said that he will. Eamonn.

In our Council the training of Council Committee members is strange. Executive Board member training is done by the Council Vice President operations. Most non executive Council Members are people who have been appointed by the Council Vice President Program. These people are selected because they have a good working knowledge in the area that they were selected for.(Camping, Training,Activities, Advancement) People from these two groups are selected to run the District Committee Workshop Training (7 30176 34160) We don't really have a Council Committee. We have the Executive Board with Vice Presidents, who cover different areas. They select Chairpersons, these Chairs work with the District Chairs. Take the camping committee, the vice president program selects a Council Camping Chairman, he works with the District Camping Chairmen, who represent the Districts. When it comes down to Training the District Chairs, the Council Camping Chair works with the District Guys. We do have people who hold no other registration other than being one of the Council Chairmen, but they are not members of the Executive Board. (In some Councils these guys are invited to sit on the Board) So even though there is no Council Committee they are registered as such. I have invited new Board members to attend the NLE Training, this has proved very useful for people who serve on the Board and have little or no knowledge about Scouting. We also had both Executive Board members and Council Committee members attend Wood Badge, they wrote their ticket for the position that they held. Eamonn.

Isn't it a shame that there isn't a "Hey give that back" Button on the keyboard? What were you so upset about? You say that you were OK with the change of date and the change of location. So it was either them not taking up the idea that you came up with? Or the fact that the Den Leaders asked you to channel your ideas through them? Looking at your reply to the Den Leaders. I know that if I were in their place, I would fail to see what I had done to insult you.Then looking at your third point, I would follow your instructions and you would be taken off the roster. I can't help but feel sad that you were /are willing to allow your hurt and your feelings take your little fellow out of something that I would hope he was starting to enjoy. I of course don't know the Den Leaders or how well the Den was doing? Still they are a couple of volunteers trying to do their best. You don't post what your future plans are? As of now at your request you are no longer part of the Den or the pack. You could go shopping for a new pack, you could just quit or you could apologize to the Den Leaders explaining that you were just having a bad day. The choice you make is yours, I do hope that for the sake of your son that you work out something that will allow him to remain in Cub Scouting. Eamonn

I kinda like this Scouting stuff. It is way up there on my list of things that I value and enjoy doing. I have over time worked out that it is not the most important thing in my life. Selfish as it may sound I am the most important thing in my life. I need to look after me before I can go about doing stuff for other people. After me comes my family. While I'm a big Lad now, over 21 and can do what I like I have found that discussing things with Her That Must Be Obeyed, before volunteering and keeping her up dated about what is going on and when goes a long way in helping keep the happy home happy. I'm lucky that I enjoy my job. I like the people I work with. After many years of self-employment,I really enjoy paid vacations and my employer paying for our family health insurance and the pay check deposited in my account is kinda nice as well. There are other things that are my big "Rocks". All of which come before Scouts and Scouting. Please believe me that I have yet to spend a sleepless night because of Scouting. I am of course me. I don't know what you have on your plate and what is going on in your life. From what you posted you have a lot going on. I think if I were wearing my District Chairman hat /cap, I would want to solve the problem. You being where you are, I know I would look at you and think you were the answer. You become the Den Leader and I move on to the next problem. One problem us nice people in Scouting have is the word No. We allow people to talk us into doing things and adding things until we are doing so much, that if we ever do burn out or quit, we will leave behind so many unfilled positions and upset so many people, that just makes leaving even harder. It really looks as if the Den Leader has gone bye-bye. Her leaving was her choice. The Den lives on. Who the new Den Leader is, should be in the hands of the pack nominating committee or maybe the pack committee. They should come to you and ask if you want the job? Your answer will depend on lots of things and how things are going in your life.If you decide that you have the time and decide that Den Leading is your cup of tea, that is all fine and dandy. If you decide that now is not the time for you, there are other positions you might want to think about if not with the pack maybe at some other level. Getting up early to watch the Long Island dawn is a nice thing to do. Being up worrying is not nice. Go back to bed, watch TV or read a book. What happens next to the den is in the hands of the committee and the Gods. Eamonn.

Thanks for adding the links. Watching the nightly news and hearing "Today so many were lost." It is easy to not put faces or think that this person was important and loved. He or She leaves behind people who grieve and feel the loss. I will of course offer a few prayers for Mike and his kin. Eamonn.

Talking with Eagledad (Barry) has put me in a reminiscing frame of mind. As a young Lad I was fortunate enough to join a very active troop.My parents owned a store and were always very busy so I was happy to do everything and anything that would get me out of the house. Patrols were important, but were used more because they were a convenient size for doing things and the tents we used were six man tents. The PLC was where we met to find out what we were doing. The adults would decide what they wanted to do and pass that information on to us and we would pass the information on to the Scouts in our patrol. Leadership wasn't important, doing stuff was.There were no themes, a month might see the troop going rock climbing, canoeing, camping. In fact looking back I see that we looked to the District and District Competitions of which there was never a shortage, we had the swimming gala, the District Olympics, Orienteering, Cross Country Race, Five a side soccer,First Aid, Model Making,and the Camp Craft. Of these the Camp Craft was the big one. Patrols camped and were judged on everything!! All meals were tasted and no canned or frozen food. The judges would select a Scout from each Patrol to show his knowledge in a well known Scouting skill: Hand Axe and Knife, Trees and leaves. Knots and lashings,Basic camp first aid, Maps and Compass, and clouds and weather. The trophy was a Felling Axe with a chromed head and the winning patrol had their patrol emblem and troop number carved into the shaft of the Axe.These competition along with the District Night Hike ruled the day and the program. I can't remember any "Classes" of any sort. If a Lad needed to learn some thing in order to reach the next rank, someone took care of it. When the time came for me to serve as Scoutmaster the big thing that changed was that we didn't have any Scouts!! Membership was the challenge. Unknowingly and unintentionally the Lads that arrived were the kind of Lads that would never have joined the troop as it was when I was a Scout. We had been a middle class bunch and these new Lads were from the projects, many belonged to groups that I suppose we would call gangs, not the organized gangs that we hear of on the news. No Bloods or Cripts?? Just groups that hung out in different places; Play grounds, Parks or street corners. These Lads didn't think that they needed Scouts or Scouting but did a place to hang out!! Looking back at the "Early Days" that is what we offered a place that was warm, inside and safe. We (I) didn't reach out too these Lads they sort of drifted in. They were very competitive and I had an ego as big as the great outdoors. I used this to build up the troop and hold their interest. We had to be the best, we had to win everything. Sports and Soccer were easy these guys were great. Soon they with a little help seen the need to be in uniform and look better than the "Other Guys." The need to win was over riding everything. For the Camp Craft Competition we groomed a winning "Patrol". The first year under my great leadership we had one Patrol come in third and one Patrol come in dead last. Some where some how I took myself to Wood Badge. The Course at that time was playing Boy Scout and Patrol V Patrol. Of course this played in to me and my need to win. It took a long time for me to see the need to make the Patrols really work. Handing over the troop to the Scouts was hard. The troop was growing, now we had Lads from all over joining. We had Scouts that attended five different High Schools. We were helped by having found a new Cubmaster, who was building up the pack. Our first few Annual Planning Meetings were more to plan summer camp than anything else. But in time we really got behind the idea of the PLC and I seen the need to step back from running the troop and spent my time working with the PL's. The troop meetings were still fun and there never was Classes. The troop met three times a week a troop meeting, a games night and a swimming night. If a Scout needed help with something someone would help him. In fact the games night might see a young Scout in the kitchen trying to master knots and different older Scouts taking turns to work with him and then disappear to play 3 a side Soccer or go play checkers. The Scouts liked to camp and over time got really good at it. While we had some weekends where every minute was planned down to the last minute, there were a lot of weekends where just camping was on the agenda. Myself and in time some of the ASM's were members of the Service Crew at a National Camp Site, so we were at the campsite one weekend a month. It seemed silly not to take some Scouts along. They would spend the time just camping and again if a Lad needed to work on some skill it would just happen. During the school summer vacation Patrols would go camping, just to get away. They had fun. They were good at things they enjoyed. I remember receiving phone calls from Gilwell Park, when they had decided that the training grounds were the ideal place to build a monkey bridge!! Then there was the female Cubmaster from Liverpool who thought the song about a fly doing stuff on the sugar was in poor taste. Being as we still were involved in the District and the District competitions we still liked to win. We of course put the best team in the five a side soccer and the best runner in a race. But the big one was the Camp Craft, we stopped grooming a team and entered real Patrols. We started winning and became the troop to beat. In fact there were years when we took nine out of ten of the top ten places. The Scouts knew what the Judges were looking for and delivered the goods. A little over half of the Scouts remained in the Venture Unit, when they moved on from the troop. Six went on to become Queens Scouts, a lot earned different Duke Of Edinburgh Awards. A couple ended up in jail for drugs. Still we had fun. Sad to say the District and the troop is not there anymore. I'm not a great collector of stuff, but I would love to have that darn Felling Axe with the chromed head and our Patrols emblem carved in the shaft. I suppose I'll settle for the Christmas Cards that have started to arrive, from Lads that were members of troop who most of the time did keep it simple and made it fun. Eamonn.

I am a uniform wearer. Wearing or not wearing it is no big deal. I used to wear it a lot more than I do, in fact I'm finding that I'm "Required" to wear it less and less. Last night I attended our Council Heritage Society dinner, the meeting started with cocktails, so off course there were no Scouts or uniforms. To night I had a dinner meeting with our Area President, again there was alcohol served. A few years back our then SE asked us not to wear uniforms to Executive Board meetings, I have no idea what that was all about. While I do wear the uniform a lot. I know that the fellow who will take my place as District Chairman more than lightly won't wear one. He will be more of a District Meeting Chairman, where I tend to stick my big nose in every place. Eamonn.

Way To Go Linda!! That trip to the Scouts home was the best trip that you have made in a long time. Kinda fits in to "Help other people at all times." Being the Care Giver, takes a lot out of the person who is doing it and I'm overjoyed that this Lad has such a great support network, it goes a long way to prove that what we do is worth while. Many Thanks for sharing this. Eamonn.

While the National PTA has frowned on PTA's chartering Scout Units, I see that in 2002 PTA'S were number 11 in the top 30 Organizations that charter Scouting units. They had 77,894 youth members in 1,593 units. Public Schools,Board of Education were number 3 with 383,657 youth in 10,566 units. So there are a lot of Schools and a lot of PTA groups that are active in supporting Scouting. In our District we do have a special needs pack where the CO is the School District. While a group of well meaning people who share the values of Scouting can form a group that will be the CO, and this is "Legal and above board." Sad to say it normally falls apart within a few years. Not in every case but as people get older and their kids move on they lose interest and the names on paper become meaningless. As a CO they are supposed to provide a meeting place, as things stand now in your unit what would happen if you lost the school as a meeting place? Would these Charter members be able to find you a new home? In some areas Schools are still happy to Charter Scout units, this will depend on the political climate in the area that you live. The same is true with PTA organizations, some as the numbers show have chosen to ignore the National organization. I do think that your UC is over stepping his mark unless there are some problems. I would have a word with the DE and see if there is a problem and ask him or her to take it from there. Your role at this time is to deliver the program to the little fellows in the Den, let the Pack Committee and them guys worry about this stuff. Eamonn

Some time back I started a thread, in which I suggested that Tickets are a distraction and maybe could be taken out of the course. This is never going to happen!! I do think that the course rushes into "Ticketing". The pre-course assignment is a good idea and needs to be made much more of. The presentation which brings up the ticket has a lot of really important and good material in it. I think that maybe it has too much material for one presentation? Still once the ticket is brought up, it seems that everything else is lost. With so many courses now following the 2x3 day format, there is a lot of time to work on the ticket, in the off time and there is an excellent opportunity at the Patrol meeting to go over the details with the Troop Guide. Once the participants have really got a good take on what their Vision and what their mission is, coming up with the goals really ought not be that difficult. Many "Old Course" Course Directors seem to spent a lot of time making sure that the staff is ready and prepared for the presentations that they will be presenting, however there is a lot of important material covered in the troop meetings and the Staff do need to really have a good understanding about Tickets and vision and mission. The Diversity ticket item really shouldn't be done till after the Diversity Presentation. I do think that the Ticket really should be the place where the participant gets to put the stuff that they have got from the course to work. As other BSA training's change I think more and more participants will feel more comfortable dealing with things like Values, Vision and Mission. Some participants who have taken management training are used to working with these ideas are already used to working with them. Some years back I took the old Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge, that ticket was a real pain!! And did take up a lot of time (This was the week long course.) While I have seen the odd person struggle with the new ticket, it has been my experience that once the participant has his or her Vision and Mission sorted out setting six goals on paper to help work toward these is fairly straightforward. Eamonn.

I have been an OA member for a very long time. For most of that time I was very much a "Flap Wearer". Sure I paid my annual dues and would attend about 50% of the weekends, but never really got involved. OJ,my son is really involved and really enjoys his involvement with the Lodge. The last couple of years he has attended NLS Training and NOAC, he has never missed a weekend or meeting. His involvement in the OA and the Lodge are a very important part of what Scouting is to him. I really don't have the time to take on very much more than what I am doing. There has been a move to try to get me to do more and a little while back I was asked to take on the Scoutreach Mentor program. I did take a look at it and took the time to write up some guidelines as how it might work with the Scoutreach set up we have in place in the Council, and heard nothing back. One reason for my lack of involvement over the years has been that our Lodge has seemed to focus on camp improvements doing all sorts of construction projects. I don't enjoy that sort of thing and I'm not very good at it. That isn't to take anything away from the guys who do it and do a great job. I'm overjoyed that OJ is getting as much out of his involvement and I'm happy with the new direction that the OA seems to be taking. But right now I average about 3 or 4 meetings a week, sometimes more. I see what I do at the Council, district and just lately the Area as coming before my involvement with the OA. I do enjoy going to the weekends for the fellowship, try really hard not to get involved with the little band who think because they have worked building the buildings and whatever that they have ownership of them. This small band of people really get up my nose and annoy me. So while I like the OA and am aware that they can do a lot of good with and for our youth, right now my involvement is not the most important part of my being in Scouting. If anything I see myself as the proud Dad of a proud Arrowman. Eamonn.

Have say that I will be glad when my term as District Chairman is over. I always seem to be fighting with someone. I really enjoyed Cubmaster for much the same reasons as KS. I enjoyed being Training Chair. and Director for Wood Badge. But nothing but nothing beats Scoutmaster. Over the more than ten years I really got to know the Lads in the troop and of course they got to know me. Seeing them join as little Chaps and grow into big Lads who were almost men, was a great honor. Eamonn.

Slow down. Please slow down. You will write your own ticket. It should be written around your primary position. Or what you consider to be your primary position. You need to pick one if you have more than one. For example if you are a Den Leader and an ASM, your ticket needs to deal with Cub Scouting or Boy Scouting. If you are not a member of the District Team, you really should not write about doing stuff on the District level. The entire ticket thing will be explained in great detail, hopefully you will incorporate some of the skills you get from the course in your ticket, which you can't do until you take the course. There is one ticket item that you really do need to wait till you have have had the presentation on before you can put pen to paper. Eamonn.

Clint, Try giving your Regional office a call, they will be able to tell you what is happening. Eamonn.

I do of course respect you and your opinion. Thank you for not getting upset or turning this into one of those threads where " keeping score is important." Could it be that we have been there, done that and all that happy stuff. I have worked with mixed age patrols. Back in the UK all Patrols are made up with Patrols of mixed ages. There are reasons for this, one being that Cub Scouts cross over when they reach an age not as a den but normally a couple at a time. In my day (I don't know what happens since they changed things a couple of years back) the Scout program age group was 11 till 16. At 16 we moved them on to the Venture Unit. The UK program does not have Patrol elections, and in most cases the PL is the oldest Lad in the Patrol, the APL is slightly younger and is waiting in the wings to take his place. It seems to me that there is far less after school activities for English kids and they do have more time for Scouts and Scouting. In fact our troop held 3 meetings a week and some Lads were at camp every weekend from Easter through October. Also as you couldn't be a Queens Scout as a Scout (Boy Scout) and had to wait until you were a Venture Scout, I don't think we as adults in the troop put as much into advancement as American Scouts seem to. A Lad in the Troop would earn the Chief Scouts Award which was the highest award in the troop and it would be presented at a normal troop meeting, his parents and maybe some one from the District would be invited but a lot less hoopla then an Eagle Scout COH. (I'm not saying one program is or was better -Just how it was!!) What we had over there then seems in many ways what you have? (Other than the elections and Webelos Scout Den Cross Over) We keep talking about older Scouts. I suppose we should identify what age an older Scout is? I really hope that we are not talking about 14 year olds!! I as everyone knows am no longer involved with a troop on a daily basis, other than the fact that I'm a parent. Looking at OJ, who I think of as a typical Scout, even though I know that there really is no such animal. He couldn't wait to join the troop and his first two years were very busy, he never ever missed a meeting or a camp out, advancement along with merit badges came steaming in.He wasn't really that involved in after school stuff. He was in junior high and there really wasn't much to be involved in. By the end of two years he started getting involved with soccer and track, then came the chorus and the conflicts started. About this time the merit badge production slowed down. Still he was very active and didn't miss very much Scouting.He found that he really enjoyed the OA. Summer camp when he was 15 was no real adventure, he went and was one of the "Older Scouts" Sad to say our Council camp really doesn't do much for the 15 + age group. He somehow someway got involved in JLTC as a staff member. This gave him an insight of how things could be, and started him questioning why things weren't that way in his home troop. He became SPL and did try to make changes. Summer camp when he was 16 was more about him being the SPL, then about the program the camp offered. In fact talking with his SM,he informed me that he had been about the best SPL the troop had had in a very long time. His term of office ended not long ago. Over the summer Soccer took over, the team did well making it to the play offs and Scouting took second place. In fact the troop may have even gone down to third place, with the OA becoming more important. (He wants to be National Chief!!) At dinner the other night he informed me that he doesn't know when he will make the next troop meeting. The School Play has started and that will keep him away, then track will kick in. Then he is off to Philmont on the OA Trail Crew then he is off to be a junior staff member at the Jamboree and his mother is applying pressure for him to get his Eagle Leadership project underway!! The other week the troop had a Campout, the one where they invite the Webelos Scouts to come and get the requirements they need for the AOL done. He had a party to attend on Friday night, so he went early on Saturday done what he had to do with the little guys and came home!!Him wanting to leave a Campout early!! Is unheard of. The troop in its infinite wisdom has made him a Junior Assistant Scoutmaster. Yuck!! To me I see this is a cop out. It is like admitting that they don't know what to do with him and will not provide a program for him and the other Lads of his age group. Trying to plan a program where the expectation is that he will be there to work with the younger Lads can't work as no one knows when he will or will not be there. A unhappy ASM did start a Venture Crew, it fell apart, mainly because the ASM is a twit and the the Lads were still in the troop and didn't know where their true loyalty laid. I like the idea that these older Lads could be in the crew get good at something and then go back and share this knowledge with a pack or a troop. This JASM,is a joke, he will go back to the odd troop meeting, they wouldn't know what to do with him, so he will stand on the sidelines and with nothing to do, will maybe find something which will not be what the troop is doing. The troop with a flock of ASPL's is doing the same thing. How much better it would be if these older Scouts were in a Patrol, still had representation at the PLC and activities were planned that would fit their needs and their schedules. I don't have a problem if the Troop is doing something and as part of this activity the troop (PLC) asks the older Scouts to present the skills needed for this activity to the other troop members. I am still thinking about the idea of an adult being involved as being a red flag. I look back to Wood Badge and the Guide who is there and fades away. I don't have a problem with Scouts teaching adults the skills that they don't have. I'm a little unsure how some adults will take to the idea. Again looking at Wood Badge and the youth involvement, it can and does work. Sometime back in these forums a forum member was accused of being a "Book Thumper", I kinda think that I might be one. While as I say I respect you and what you are doing and I feel sure, in fact I know that the program you guys are offering is way, way better than the program that most troops in the District that I'm in. Being as we are all human and will try and make things work the way that we feel works for us or for the group that we are involved with, along with the fact that we are volunteers, I suppose that tweaking is always going to go on. I like the idea that I have the "Book" to fall back on. I get a little upset when I see the program abused. I'm thinking about troops that don't use the methods of Scouting. The Merit Badge classes that take over each and every meeting. Troops that don't have any idea about the Patrol Method and where the goal has nothing to do with developing young people to make ethical decisions and in fact are teaching Lads how to cheat and get around things in order to wear the Eagle Patch. Scouting to me is very much about relationships, I enjoy working with all the people involved in this organization. I firmly believe that a value based program can do a lot of good. We however need to remember that this is supposed to be fun. We are here to work for and with the kids who choose to join, they might need the odd reminder about how to act, but they don't ever need to be put down. If our program is for Lads till they are 18, it is wrong that we give up on them when they are 15 or 16. That must mean that something isn't working as it should.We surely need to look at what we are doing and what they are doing and find something that works. Eamonn.

On a scale of 1 - 10 One being the lowest rating and ten being the highest. How would you rate how much you enjoy Scouting? Eamonn.

OJ now has his driving permit, now all of a sudden I'm looking at the posted speed limits. In fact after reading this post yesterday I took notice of my drive to work. The road outside is posted 45MPH. I rarely if ever speed on this road, in fact it has a couple of nasty bends and I 45 is too fast. Then it's on to my stupid road it is 55 where I get on and then goes to 65 a mile up the road. When I'm alone I do the 55 on my way to work, but tend to not slow down on the way home. Then there is a stretch of road through a small town going one way it is 35, I normally don't go over as there is 3 red lights, coming the other way the limit goes down to 25. I used to go at about 30 then a young kid got hit a few months back and died, I didn't know the child or her family, but out of respect to them I don't speed, the rest of my trip is posted 45 and they have doubled the fines so I'm a good boy. I don't now have to tote many Scouts around, normally when I do I use the cruise control. Looking at my 30 mile round trip to my office, there is only one mile of the trip where I seem to go over the limit, that is where the speed drops from 65 to 55. Eamonn

Near the very top of my ever growing list of pet peeves is the fact that a little over 16 years ago I came home from the hospital with a baby. This new person didn't come with an instruction book!! I think the fact that he is still here after 16 years, without coming with an instruction manual, just proves how two people who don't have any idea about what they are doing can at times be very lucky. As many who visit this forum know I think our son is not a bad kid, in fact most of the time I see him as a good kid. However lately he seems to spend a lot of time sleeping. In fact sleeping seems to have become his favorite activity. He comes home from School and falls asleep, he will stay in bed asleep till noon sleeping if we let him. The house rule is that he has to be in bed by 11:00 and everything turned off by 11:30. He is in bed asleep by 10:30!! I don't ever remember sleeping as much as he does. Do all kids sleep this much? Or is this just a stage? Of course I have put it all down to him being a lazy little toad. Boy I wish he had came with instructions!! Eamonn.

Our Patrols /Troop did a lot of camping and it seemed that we always ended up with tons and tons of stuff left over. Every time they would go shopping they would buy more Brillo pads, another 5 pound of sugar and another ginormas bottle of ketchup. They were of course supposed to empty their Patrol Box after each weekend, but there were Patrols that would camp almost every weekend during the summer. Then to make matters worse the QM thought we would save money if we started buying some of the staples in bulk!! Now we were buying teabags and coffee in wholesale lots. We would have the Great Patrol Box Clean Out, in late October or early November. With 15 Patrol Boxes, this was a big job. By the time we were done we would have 1,000's of tea bags, 100's of Brillo pads,jars of jam and a ton of very lumpy sugar. I seen this as one big mess, the QM seen it as money in the bank. Eamonn.

I do hope that those in charge of security pay extra special attention to long haired rappelling instructors. While many people from the Wagion Lodge are very nice there are a few that Security will need to keep an eye on. Welcome to the forum. Eamonn. (Wagion Brotherhood)

I would want that patch the minute it was approved. You can present the medal and the other stuff at the COH. After all that work I might want to take my patch to bed with me that night. Heck maybe for a month or more!! I always was a greedy kid!! Eamonn.

We went in 2000. I of course had a good time. OJ had a good time and was busy all the time he was there. The food was OK. There were a few problems with parents not keeping their kids under control and these little people running around the tents late at night. Her That Must Be Obeyed had an OK time, she said that she enjoyed it, but is in no rush to go back. Living in a tent is not her idea of fun. She unlike her old man is kinda shy. Me being a smoker was a frequent visitor to the designated smoking area, where of course I got to meet the regulars and would spent way too long talking,she wasn't happy and seen it as if I was deserting her. I would go back in a heart beat, but would stop at Las Vegas first and leave her there. How does Mrs Pounder enjoy camping and spending her vacation in a tent and away from you for a good portion of the day? Eamonn.

I do see where I lost you Barry, in fact now when I read it I lose myself. What I think I was trying to say. If you have a patrol made up with Scouts of different ages, then the older Scouts in the patrol might taken teaching the younger Scouts. I then thought "Hey Eamonn how does this work? How do they elect a Patrol Leader, if the Patrol is mixed do we have a 12 year old leading the 17 year old?" I don't know how that works. You and I are in agreement about if the only thing we offer our older Scouts is working with the younger Scouts, it is boring for the older Scouts. As for for the young Lad watching and copying the older Lad, I do think that everyone regardless of age should be setting a good example. I don't have a problem holding back activities until the younger Scout has the skills needed to do whatever the activity is and using this as the carrot. As to: One other part of your post that grabbed me is the first year in the NSP. I think this is part of the problem. At what point does the scout take responsibility for his part in the program. When does he say I want to be here at this time. This can be a tough call. If we agree that older Scouts should not be the guys who are responsible for teaching the little guys, we need to have a knowledgeable adult help them out. I hope we are OK with this so far? (He or she might have an older Scout who wants to take on the job of helping these little fellows, but this needs to be his choice - I added that because I know a few Scouts who really enjoy working with the little guys.) The NSP does not need or want a "Mother Hen" this leader needs to over time keep stepping away and allow the Patrol to find it's own way or find its own feet. Sure at the start he or she will be there, but by the end of a given time these guys will know enough to be on their own. I would think that when the next batch of Webelos Scouts cross over the NSP will no longer be the NSP. While I think that the goal of First Class with in a set time is a good one, I do agree that different Scouts should, ought and will advance when they (The individual) are ready. In fact herding a Patrol through any advancement would be wrong. Lads who join the troop from the pack at 101/2 or 11 have in most cases a lot of time for Scouting.If the troop doesn't get in the way by offering Merit Badge classes and other foolishness, the little guy will have attended most of the troop meetings, ten or more outdoor activities?? Summer camp. Depending on the size of the Patrol,all the Guys will have had the opportunity to have served as Patrol Leader, some will have served twice. (If they serve for a month and the troop has a year round program) These little Lads are not so little any more. Some troops say that the NSP, moves on to become the First Class Patrol, I think that this might lead to rushing Scouts who are not ready or don't really have the skills to being made First Class. Isn't this the cause of a lot of our problems?? Back home when the NSP stopped being the NSP, they then had the right to camp as a Patrol and go Patrol Camping, sadly I don't see very much of that over here. Once they stop being the NSP, they will participate in the elections and elect their first "Real" Patrol Leader. The Patrol leader will then with the help and support of the SM and the PLC, be the person that makes sure his Patrol is ready for the patrol to participate in the program. I know that in my heart of hearts I am what might be call a traditionalist, I like the old Scout type activities: Pioneering, Camping, Hiking, and that good stuff. I see Scouts hang back at Camporees because they never were taught this good stuff. While we have all met the Lad that can after twenty very frustrating minutes learn to tie a Square knot , only to completely forget it next by the next meeting. But in most cases the Scouts that hang back were pushed through and then never given opportunities to use the skills. I agree that we need to cater to the needs of each Lad and that just like the adults each and every Lad brings something to the table, his skills and his personality are what makes what we do worth while, getting to know and understand him is a privilege. Seeing him and five or six of his friends work as a team and get the job done without too much or even at times no adult interference is a reward. Seeing them have fun as they do it, is what keeps us old people coming back. The program comes from them, if we let it. Sure we guide them and at times this guidance can if we are not careful become more like steering. Each Scout needs to know that his idea that he presented to his Patrol and his Patrol Leader presented to the PLC, where maybe it got altered a bit is the program that his troop is following. I can't help feeling that once our Scouts know that they have ownership of what they will be doing, they will want to do it. Eamonn.