Eamonn

Many of the ideas here are good. However there is safety in numbers and asking a group is never as effective as going face to face. When OJ joined the pack, I was hiding on the Council Charter a member of the properties committee. I was busy owning and operating a couple of small restaurants. Joining the pack had been his idea and I was happy to leave Cubbing to him and his mother. We joined the year that was to be the year that everyone: Cubmaster, Assistant Cubmaster along with a couple of Den Leaders were moving on or moving out. Her That Must Be Obeyed, had gone and got herself signed up as a Committee Member, mainly because she and the Unit Commissioner, had done leader training together before way back when. I sat at the back of the hall during Pack Meetings. I heard the pleas for help I heard the threats that the pack would close. I sat through it all. I didn't budge. I sat firm, my hand didn't go up. Even when the check for the money that each Cub Scout had in his account came, I seen that these guys were serious about closing the pack. Still I did nothing. What turned me in the end was when the Assistant District Commissioner Cub Scouts arrived on my door step and asked me. I had no place to run, no place to hide, no other parents to make funny faces at. She had me, she got me and I'm still around. I know one on one recruiting works - Just ask my accountant!! Eamonn

I am not any sort of a vegetarian. Give me a plate full of meat and potatoes and I'm a very happy camper. I do think of myself as being an animal lover and would never intentionally harm or hurt an animal. I don't hunt or fish. Hunting is real big in our area and almost seems to be part of a young Lads passage to manhood. Many of my friends are really into hunting, some have specialized and only hunt certain things: Ducks,Turkeys or Deer. Some just hunt while some have got heavily involved into organizations that promote whatever it is they hunt, organizations like the Wild Turkey Federation and Ducks unlimited. I don't fish, I just can't sit still for that long. Fish'n'Chips were the fast food of my generation back home in England. Her That Must Be obeyed, nearly died when I ordered a trout in a restaurant in France, the waiter wheeled over a fish tank, I picked the fish that caught my fancy. The poor fish got a quick bonk on the head and was soon there after in a pan, sizzling away in butter and white wine. He or she was a tasty little morsel. I will admit that I have never ever given much thought to cruelty to fish. I do remember reading that it was more humane to get a long needle and poke it through the eye of a live lobster, rather than just tossing the lobster into boiling water. I did wonder how anyone ever worked that out? I have to wonder how long it will be before some group works out that plants have feelings? And picking tomatoes causes pain to the plant. I do get a little upset when I see how eggs are produced, 1000's of hens stacked high in cages. I'm sure that these hens are not as happy as the ones that had the run of the farm yard. I choose not to think about them when I eat an egg. Maybe, that's just it I have so many other things to think about and am happy not to think about this stuff. Eamonn.

I know of several troops in the UK that enter into exchange programs with troops from all over the world, including the USA. Please contact me and I will provide some names of English units that might be interested. Eamonn.

I really hope my posting didn't come off sounding cold and flip. I really do feel for the Lad. I feel that he was let down by someone. Of course there is a chance that that someone is himself. We don't know if: 1/ He was never given the right information. 2/ Was given the information and didn't read it. Having to find and do a new project does seem harsh. If I were the Lad I would be very upset. Still much as I hate to be harsh there just isn't any wiggle room nor should there be. We aren't talking about a hike that falls 100 yards short of the requirement, this is the highest award that we have. I really hope that there is someone who can be there for the Lad, someone that can explain what went wrong and hopefully that someone can build the Lad up enough to pick himself up, dust himself down and start all over again. I can almost hear the Lad and his parents snarling. I am sure that blame and fingers are being pointed. I hope the Lad will see that this was His Project, was His Responsibility and that he has messed up. Still I do feel for the Lad. Eamonn.

I'm sorry Scout leader, I have to disagree. In our case OJ and his parents, had no part in this. Sure Her That Must Be Obeyed and myself would over the moon and really proud if he decides to make Eagle Scout a goal. But it has to be his goal. The idea of changing troops was his. He saw what was going on and wanted no part of it. I guess I played a part in making him see that there was no Merit in the badges he was getting. He shares my view that Scouting should be fun. At times he is a lazy little toad. But every now and then something comes along that peaks his interest, that something can last a very short time or can be on going. JLTC peaked as does the OA. He enjoyed being SPL. He has at times worked his tail off working on Eagle Scout projects that his pals are doing. He toddled off to summer camp last year, had a great time being SPL, hung out with his pals from the OA. His SM told me that he was the best SPL that they have had in a long time. He came home with one Merit Badge. He was upset because who ever was in charge of one Merit Badge, wouldn't allow him to retake it. He wanted to retake it because he felt that he needed too. Still when I look at him and what he is doing I'm proud of him and pleased to see that he is having fun. This summer he is off too Philmont and will be a Junior Staff member at the Jambo. He has not made Eagle Scout one of his goals, he doesn't care if he never gets another Merit Badge. Part of the fault must lay with these twits, who may very well have the best of intentions, but to my mind they are doing so much harm. Harm to the Scouts in their care. What message are they passing on to these kids? Harm to the program? Sure if we hand this stuff out it becomes meaningless. What they are doing isn't Scouting. I'm not sure what it is? Sure they may have flocks of Eagles but these Lads are not Scouts. It makes my blood boil. Eamonn

A very close friend of mine is in charge of staffing Action Center D. There are still openings for people from the Northeast Region to staff this area. I feel almost sure that no one at this time is doing anything for 2010. Heck I'm having a hard time getting information about 2007!! And I'm the coordinator for our Area. I think that info for 2010 will be available late 2008. Eamonn Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Years back there was a TV show "The A Team" (Yes I know it wasn't on PBS!!) In every episode the A Team Leader, Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith (George Peppard) would say: "I love it when a plan comes together." Best of Luck to the little fellow, tell Dad to take notes he will need them for when he goes to Wood Badge!! Eamonn

OK, remembering that I thought a unit could only have one CO, and I was proved wrong. I do hope the other wise and wonderful people in the forum will chime in if need be. The expert in this should be your Council Registrar. He or She has all the books, codes along with a direct line to the experts at National. Changing CO's can normally only be done if the CO that you have at present wants it too. The charter belongs to them. What normally happens and it isn't very pretty!! Is that there is some sort of disagreement or falling out between the CO and the Scout Unit. The reasons can vary from unit to unit and the fault can be on either side. In most cases the Scout people get upset and want to move to greener pastures. In most cases or at least some cases the adults go out looking for a new CO. They are not changing CO, they are starting a new unit. The CO that was/is there holds all the aces. They can stand back and wave good-bye, reform the unit and carry on business as usual,only under new management. They can keep all the equipment, the unit number -Everything. They can do this because the stuff belongs to them. Some leaders think that because the unit raised the money for the tents or whatever, that these should belong to the unit. This is not the case, the money was raised in the name of the unit and the unit belongs to the CO. My church does fish fries every Friday during Lent, the Ladies that fry the fish have over the years updated and bought new French friers. When these Ladies decide to quit the friers will still belong to the church. We have in the District had a unit that had a big falling out with the church that was their CO. The Preacher and the Church Council were so happy to see the back of the people in the unit, they said just go, take the number, take the equipment and just go. The unit had as a member a guy who was a ranking member of the American Legion, the unit went there,a new charters were issued with the same troop and pack number, but they lost their tenure, because it was a new charter. I was talking with a Scoutmaster friend of mine the other week. He is on his second family. Years ago he had been SM for the unit in his church. Soon after he left the unit fell apart and the church never formed a new unit. He is a wonderful Scouter and is now Scouting in a unit chartered by a Methodist church. His church (A Catholic Church) had came up to him and asked if he would come back. I kinda think that if he were to pick up his tent and move the Scouts, parents and other leaders would follow. He said that he was very tempted, the Catholic church is his church and it was where his oldest son became an Eagle Scout. But when he looked at what he had now: The meeting room, the support of the preacher and church council along with a few other things, he decided to stay put. There are cases where units lose their CO, this is happening in the Military and we have had it happen in the District. One day the organization that chartered a unit just ceases to be there anymore. When this happens you do need to involve the DE. A new CO will enter into an agreement with the BSA and the DE is the local areas representative of the BSA. The District Membership Committee should be able to help in finding a new a new CO. It might be in your area or maybe because of the people you have in the unit that there is more than one organization that is willing to take on the responsibility of becoming the new CO. When this happens the leaders and the adults need to look at which organization is going to do the best job for the unit or maybe which organization is closer to the unit members. By closer I'm not talking geographical. I mean if the Leaders and most of the Scouts are Jewish and the two organizations are a Jewish Organization and a Catholic Church, even though the Catholics might have a better meeting room, you might want to consider going where the leaders and other members feel more comfortable. You and the other adults might want to write down a wish list. Chances are that you will not get everything that you wish for, but one organization might offer more than the other. If you and the present CO have had a falling out, I do hope that everyone remembers that they are Scouts. I do hope that this helps, but you really need to talk to the professional staff in your District and Council. Eamonn.

Only the few, the proud and the very best make it to be Council Presidents. I'm not that good!! Eamonn

Wow!! What a wonderful discussion. I can't help think that we send our Scouts messages. The headline showing the Worlds Youngest Eagle or the Lad who has earned every Merit Badge. Seem to make these guys into hero's. The troop that OJ joined originally had a change of leadership and the new guys turned everything into being about Merit Badges. Of course a kid isn't going to say "Heck No!! Don't give me that I haven't earned it!! OJ, stayed and the badges arrived in a steady stream. Rules and requirements, were bent,adapted,altered and changed. He came home with Coin collecting, because he had a couple of the new state quarters. model making because he had made pine wood derby cars. None of this was his doing. Things came to a head when he said that he didn't want to go to troop meetings. I asked why? and he said that the troop meeting was at so and so's farm the troop was doing Farm Mechanics merit badge and he just didn't want to go. Soon after he changed troops I have to ask why? Why do they do that? As a District we put a lot of time and effort into the District Merit Badge list. We have in fact made becoming a merit badge counselor a lot more difficult in order to get away from the abuses that were going on. Our summer camp is all about Merit Badges, the quality is not good, but the staff is young and the pay isn't high enough to attract older staffers. I really wish we could get back to the idea of Scouts planning and plotting their own advancement path. Sure some Lads might need a friendly kick in the pants, while others might need to asked to take it easy. Scouting shouldn't be the rush to Eagle, Summer Camp should be fun, not the rush from class to class. Sure the troop will as it follows the annual plan, come across opportunities that lend themselves to completing parts or even maybe entire merit badges, but this should not be done by design. Maybe there is even a good argument for easy merit badges. I see little harm in a little fellow coming home from camp with a fishing merit badge, even if the standard was incredibly low. If this helps to light the fire, I can live with that. If a Lad has set his sights on becoming an Eagle, he may well need help, knowing what to do next and where to go. Adults who help him are the backbone of Scouting. We have been around to help and support for 95 years. I have always thought that we need to do more with participation than just rush to hand out merit badges. Sure I had Scouts who went out and were gung-ho for merit badges, but I also had others who were happy to do the stuff that they wanted to do. Scouts who liked hanging out at camp and doing fun type stuff. Merit Badges do and can have value. But that value is diminished with the weekly merit badge class, unless that is what the Scout has asked for. Merit Badges that come in Crackerjack boxes are worthless and have no value. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me. Eamonn.

Some Lodge members have carved the Thunder bird that is our lodge emblem and they wear that as a slide. Eamonn

I am a great lover of Patrol Boxes. We played around with different designs till we found one that worked. It worked because we built it around the equipment that we were putting in it. We /I never liked the aluminum cooking sets, mainly because as a Scout I remember sitting for hours with a Brillo Pad and cleaning the darn things! We found nice sets of black enameled pots that fit inside of each other. The big thing about the boxes and the equipment were that they "Belonged" to the Patrol. Patrols painted them, signed them added stickers and all sorts of stuff. At camp the equipment came out and they were used as larders or pantries. Patrol members left their plates and mugs in the box, that way they never forgot them and over time even if they did they knew that there were extras in the box. Once a year we had a big clean up/ clear out. We also had troop lightweight equipment for hikes and that sort of thing. We never went in for trailers but had mini vans with custom built roof racks. Getting the boxes on and off the roof was always a hair raising activity, but we seemed to manage. Outside the Scout HQ we had a two car garage that was packed with camping equipment. Pete our troop QM had worked in the stores in the RAF. The garage was his domain, he ruled it, he ran it. We had 15 patrol boxes, getting all of them and the tents to camp was never easy even with four 15 seat mini vans. We did buy an old van to tote the equipment in. It worked for a while, but fell apart one year while we were camping in Ireland. Eamonn

Sure!! Eamonn

Hi BSAT17SPL, In our Council I think that I'm known as being very much a fun type guy. At times when I read through these forums I end up thinking that some people need to loosen up a little and remember that this Scouting stuff is all about fun. Even as a Wood Badge Director, I was part of the staff that helped everyone celebrate Bushgunushaka Day. We had dancing Bushgunshaka Girls, meals of Cabbage and sauerkraut served with kobeissi. We had photos of Saint Bushgunshaka in the Gilwell Gazette. (A staff member with a mop over his head!!) It was a lot of fun. No one got upset and no one got hurt. However we knew that we were on thin ice. If someone had got the idea that we were being disrespectful to the Slovak community, we would have pulled the plug and just moved on. I think we have to be very careful when we use the term everyone. Sure a lot of people can "Take it" but there is always the risk of hurting someone. I sure as heck don't ever want to hurt anyone. Then of course we have to be very careful that what starts out as being "All in good fun" just isn't fun. Eamonn.

As a Council we have a Council Event the year after the Jamboree. Our numbers are about the same as yours. 2002 the theme was Moving. Each district was given an area to deal with: Earth, Sea, Air and Ground. It was held over the coldest, wettest weekend in May that has ever been recorded!! The one before was kind of neat it dealt with wars!! I think that you will need to have a lot more activities than 8 to keep everyone interested, no one is going to want to stand in line for ever!! Early Scouting is easy to pull off have a group do a Brown Sea Island camp and invite the traveling Scouts to play the games that were played by that First Group of Lads. Pioneering is my big thing, invite Scouts to help build something and maybe cross over a monkey bridge or something. The OA is good for a couple of stations maybe the Dance Team. I was really taken with the Indian Lore exhibition at the 2001 Jamboree. Scouts got to try their hand at bead work and they had a Native American Fellow who is a Scouter he was outstanding. Black Powder guns and that sort of thing are always a hit with the Scouts. Buckskin Games can keep a lot of people busy. You might want to invite the guys who have outstanding patch collections to set up a display. You could invite the International Division to send the display that they have. A fashion display of Scout Uniforms through the ages might be fun. Looking back through old Scout Handbooks should inspire you to do a lot, maybe some stuff on signaling: Morse code and Semaphore. The time we did War, we had local school bands come and play music from the different time periods. I really got into the big band swing stuff. You might want to show a movie one night. Follow Me Boys is cute!! We have a guy in our Council who is really into the history of our camp. He has all sorts of neat stuff, you might want to just display this or add to it. In this months Scouting Mag. They have Scouts making a historic record of veterans, by inviting them to talk into a tape recorder about how it was. You could do the same thing have a group of Scouts make recordings with either video or just photo. Make copies and sell them or just show them at the camp fire. I could go on forever!! You need to form a very enthusiastic hard working committee and go wild. Eamonn

Why do I feel that this is going some place else? A stove: 1 a : a portable or fixed apparatus that burns fuel or uses electricity to provide heat (as for cooking or heating) b : a device that generates heat for special purposes (as for heating tools or heating air for a hot blast) Lightweight: having less than average weight. Back in the day, when I was serving as a Scoutmaster, we looked at many different stoves that our Scouts could use on hikes. At the troop level we didn't go in much for extended hikes and most weekend hikes were 12 -15 miles. We tended to go for the stoves that were fueled by Butane (Camping Gaz, was big all over Europe) The stoves were fairly cheap, the fuel was easy to use with little risk to the Scouts. As a Venture Scout I hiked the Pennine Way.(270 miles!!) As we were older than the Lads in the troop we used stoves that were fueled by Kerosene, which was a lot cheaper than the Butane and didn't leave us packing out empty gaz containers. There are solid fuel stoves and alcohol stoves out there, I really have never used them. The big thing about these stoves is knowing how they work and following the safety precautions. The G2SS and the BSA has policy's on fuels that do need to be followed. Some Councils are a little fussy about what sort of stoves they will allow to be used on properties that they own or manage. Not trying to hijack the thread but hiking the Pennine Way is a great activity for a small Venture Crew, even if it does seem to rain every day!! Air fares are not that expensive and the hike goes through some very sparely populated and remote areas of the UK. Along the way you are sure too meet some really interesting and really neat people. Eamonn.

No, only adults who have met the specific training requirements for the post that hold. Eamonn.

Packsaddle, I will have to sleep on the idea that the French ever did anything for anyone who wasn't French. Great Cheese, Great Wine and I have a really funny story about me taking Her Who Must Be Obeyed to Paris on the cheap. Our travel agent informed us that our hotel was "A little bit in the red light district!!" Which is a kin to being a little bit pregnant. Still getting back to this Name Thing. I kinda think we all have "Ideas" about who is going to respond in what way to different threads. We may have people that even if we disagree with them, we admire and allow them "In." Thus allowing the little Grey cells to start working. Even Merilyn, who at one time I begged to go away and annoy someone else, does at times get me thinking -Not agreeing with him but thinking. I enjoy hearing how things are going with some of the other Forum Members, even those who I have crossed swords with. There have been times when someone in the forum has seemed to go a little bit over board and a couple of us have talked on the phone or via E-mail, asking each other "What the heck is so and so doing?" Often this is the main topic of conversation in the chat room. While I firmly believe that the Forum can be a very useful tool. People can ask for advise or help and people can offer help and advise. Still at the end of the day we have no way of knowing who the other guy is. I say that I'm Eamonn, a Queens Scout, a District Chairman. But who knows I could be someone that was asked to leave years ago for doing something really dumb. No one is ever going to lose any sleep about what goes on in this Forum. Not that, that gives us any right to behave in a rude or disrespectful way. I do know of one person in the forum who did change her identity she asked Terry and gave what must have been an OK reason for wanting to do so. Eamonn

It could be that you guys have hit the nail on the head!! Thank You. Dealing with Goals, Membership, Finance along with keeping the District on the right track, which means dealing with adults, most of them are great, but we do have our share of lulu's. It is easy to at times forget who we are doing this all for. Rarely if ever does anyone phone me to say how great things are going? In fact by the time my phone rings, things are normally in a sad state and these sad states are due to adults who can't play together or people who have not followed the guidelines when they play the game. Eamonn

Much as I hate to be the bearer of sad, bad news. The rules are the rules, they are there to be followed. Help the Lad find a new project, use the book!! Make sure all the T's are crossed and the I's are dotted. One of the skills of leadership is following directions another is communication. It would seem that this Lad does need some help. His Scoutmaster could also benefit from a good dose. Eamonn.

I have read the BSA statement and can't help feeling that it lacks something? I receive E-mails from the communications department at Gilwell Pack, the Brits and the Scout Association seem to be doing a lot more. Why can't we come up with a patch that would sell for about $5.00 and donate the profits? Eamonn

Andy You seem like a very nice chap. You do however need to stop doing what you are doing. Look at all the hats you are wearing. Take a weekend off, look at everything that you are doing.What with the pack the troop and the district. I would suggest that you are trying to take on too much and that you need to take a long hard look at where you really would do the most good. This might mean giving up some of the hats. Sit down and look at where your problems are. Look at what needs to be done to fix the problems. Then grab a pen and paper and write down some goals. Some will be long term goals some will be short term. Some of these goals might be very personal. Things like: I am going to be more organized. Some of these goals might need to be shared with other members of the pack or even the entire pack and the parents. Don't take on too much, but do list things that you know can be done. Set time limits. Take one night a week to review how you are doing and where you are at. Involve the other adults in the pack, set them tasks that have to be done. Make them accountable, phone them and ask how is such and such coming along. Don't let them off the hook. You are the leader, stop rushing around like a March hare and start leading. Eamonn.

Having to manage my time during the day, by not sitting or standing for too long, I have fallen prey to day time TV. Man oh Man, if you think that prime time is bad day time sucks!! I ended up watching Court TV. A totally new way of wasting time. http://courttv.com/trials/taped/candidcamera/candidcamera_ctv.html This was what I suppose must have been the trail of the day. If you follow the link you will see that Candid Camera,posed as airport security and had a guy go through the X-ray scanner that is normally used for baggage. The guy did suffer a bruise to his leg. He sued the Airport. They settled for $95,000. He sued Candid Camera and Peter Funt, he ended up with another $300,000. I wouldn't go as far as to say that I'm a big fan of Candid Camera, it's an OK show, which at times can be very funny. It has been around for a very long time and there was a British Candid Camera. I have always seen it as being clean fun and at times as good clean fun. I do see that the guy got hurt and do think that he should be compensated for his injury. I don't have any idea what the going rate for a bruise is? The jury found Funt and Candid Camera guilty for negligence, false imprisonment and intentional misrepresentation, but cleared them of claims of battery and intentional infliction of emotional distress. While I was watching the show I started to think about Camp Fires and some of the Camp Fire skits. Candid Camera, has for many years used everyday people as the fall-guys for their jokes. Audiences on both sides of the pond have for 40+ years laughed at the show. Most would rarely if ever give a moments thought to what the fall-guy was going through. For a very long time, at least when I was a kid this sort of comedy was very much a part of Camp Fires. Some poor unsuspecting person would end up looking like a twit or end up getting wet. In todays kinder, more caring society we would never allow anyone to come off looking like a twit, just to amuse others. I think that $395,000 for a bruise is way over the top. But putting that aside. Do you think Candid Camera is hazing? Eamonn.

Tevorum, I can't help feeling that the guys who sit on Eagle Rank BOR's in your area are a lot tougher than in mine. Or that the Lad must have messed up big time. When I am asked to serve on a BOR. I know that the project was approved before it was started. In fact it has been approved by the group that will benefit from the project. I know that the project has been discussed with the unit leader. I also know that concept has been discussed with someone from the organization. Then the plan has been approved by the Scoutmaster, a unit committee member, a member of the District Advancement team. When the project is completed it is signed by the Scout, the Scoutmaster and the rep from the organization that benefited from the project. All of the Scouts use the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook.Which needs to be made a lot larger!! I as a BOR member have only five questions about the project: In what ways did you demonstrate leadership of others? Give examples of how you directed the project rather than doing the work yourself. In what way did the religious institution, school, or community group benefit from the project? Did the project follow the plan? If changes to the plan were made, explain why the changes were necessary. If the book has been used correctly, I kinda know that the outside group benefited from the project, if they didn't why did they approve it twice before it was even started? I have a copy of the plan and a list of what changes were made and an explanation of why they were made. In most cases these changes are not that great. So my big question is the one about in what way did you demonstrate leadership of others? Most Scouts I have asked this to have needed a little help with the answer. It isn't that they have not demonstrated leadership, more a case of they have not thought about what leadership is. Eamonn: How did you demonstrate leadership? Scout: After a pause. I told them what to do. Eamonn: You told them or you asked them? Scout: I asked them to help and they came. Eamonn:Who explained what needed to be done? Scout: I did. Eamonn: So you used communication? Scout: Yes. Eamonn: How did they know what to do when? Scout: I showed them the plan. Eamonn: So you used Planning. Scout: Yes And so on. In most cases the Scout has given leadership he just hasn't thought about it. There are of course cases where the Scout has done the entire project with just him and a parent and in this case I would fail him. I can see a lot of younger Scouts who are great leaders. Maybe the Scoutmaster needs to go over what Leadership is, that way the Scout is prepared to answer the question when it's asked. It would make my life a lot easier. Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

The wise and learned Gentleman from Kentucky has covered all the high points. When you see a Leader wearing that necklace with a couple of wooden beads, it is a sign that the person who is wearing it really does want to do his or her best serving as a leader. He or she has invested a lot of time and a fair amount of money to try and do the best job possible. There are of course a lot of outstanding leaders who for one reason or an other haven't got around to taking the course. Some great leaders never find the time. Of course I feel sure when the time comes you will be want to be Wood Badge trained, who knows with any luck you might be a member of the Bear Patrol? Not everyone is that lucky. Eamonn