Eagledad

>>I don't see a need for a functioning SPL until one has 4-5 patrols. Otherwise these boys end up figure-head officers with no responsibilities.

>>It seems to me this is a pretty clear case of 'adding' to the requirements or am I missing something?

>>I was also a Scout in the 60's and a Scout leader since the 1970s The percentage of trained leaders seems to be noticeably less to me.

Yes, yes of course, but I think Scoutingagain was asking the question from a legalist point of view. And I think that is an interesting question. Barry

>>I suspect he meant more that the EBOR process was to confirm the candidate had in fulfilled all the requirements, but I'll let him clarify further if he so desires.

>>packsaddle's comment has me wondering when do questions become too personal, that they cannot be asked at BOR or a scout can decline to answer?

Hi All >>This practice didn't really surprise me, it was attitude of general acceptance as being normal to scouting that bothered me more.

The quotes are in context. You were asked more then once to back off, you instead continued your post at Lisabob or her personal experience. You could have continued the discussion with hypothetical examples. That would have given you a path to the last word and showing respect to the request. When folks ask you to stop, they want you to stop. Your style is consistent in forums. Barry

From Lisabob to Bob White >>Perhaps now, secure in that knowledge, you will be relieved of the terrible burden you apparently feel to bludgeon people left and right with what you think you know.>Perhaps you could share anything in the post that you found inaccuarate. I would be happy to reconsider any point that you can refute with evidence from LisaBob's posts or my own.

I don't know that you will be able to sort this out all that quickly. I felt the same as you are describing when I retired as the Scoutmaster. That was after knowingly preparing myself for a year to step back and let another very fine person take my place. It just hurts. Barry

This is a lot of fun for everyone. Set out the ingredients and let everyone choose what they want in their omelet. A few suggestions are wait until the water just starts to boil then turn the heat down just a notch. Waiting for it to boil shortens the cooking time. Folks tend to get in a hurry standing there holding the bag of breakfast, so they throw the bags in too early making breakfast take a lot longer. And dont let the bags touch the side of the pot if you can, depending on the metal, the bags can melt. However it seems like the newer bags arent as much of a problem. Our scouts would attach the bags to a dowel rod or clothes hanger laid across the pot using clothes pins. You can also do this with paper bags set close to the fire. But it is trickier and you might go hungry if your bag was to close. I have a friend who is toxicologist who says boiling a plastic doesnt bother him; it is the microwaving where they see problems. He said a person would have to cook all their meals in plastic bags until into their 60s to possibly have a reaction. Because of that, we encourage the scouts to not put plastic in microwaves on campouts. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

I think it is important to visit a typical troop meeting, not a meeting planned or intended for guest. I like to call the SM the night before. I like the Webelos to hang with the scouts and the adults to tour the program with the SM. I think three basic questions will give you plenty of information to ask the follow on questions. What is your goal for my son in this Troop? Why is that the goal? How does your program get him there? I think that choosing a troop is a team decision with the parents and son.When I was a Cub Master, I would interview Webelos leaving the pack asking them why they choose the troop they choose. Many times the answer was they had the best game at the end of the meeting. We need to ask the scouts a lot of questions to get them talking and thinking about many aspects of the program the experienced. Barry

>>"In fact as I think about it I more than lightly would let him know during the first interview that he wasn't doing a very good job and wasn't doing much to help himself. Maybe going as far as to ask him to leave the room for a moment and restarting everything again! "

>>Since we have no idea who you are or who the scout is it would seem that there should be no concern for confidentiality as far as published BSA requirements.

>>but I believe that an out-of-shape scout may also fail to complete a trek.

>>I agree! If they have just begun their training program, I'll lay odds that some of them won't be in good enough shape to finish the trek.

I have found that when the adults dreams of adventure is bigger then the scouts, the scouts usually get the short end of the stick. Now of course we dont know all sides of the story, but something doesnt feel right about all this. I have developed and trained several Philmont and High Adventure Crews and a lot of adults tend to take a lot of the fun out of the experience. Adult/scout relations on the trails are a major problem. Philmont attempted to relieve some of the stress by using a Crew Chaplin to give the scouts an avenue to vent out their frustrations (Thorns and Roses). By the way, one way to satisfy the third adult concern is asking an 18 year old to go. Philmont accepts them as adults and they usually add more fun for the boys side. Barry

Im an off trailer. Not just in hiking or hunting, but I think of life in general. Im disappointed the political correctness bled all over the thread, but not surprised. Off trailing is action of individuality. Our society today defines individuality as becoming part of the group. I dont think there are that many people who feel an impulse to go off trail. Or maybe they are just too afraid. Going off trailing is searching out a moment of personal fulfillment without being selfish. Not going against the flow, but instead finding a place of no resistance in the flow. It is a place that for the moment feels like where we are meant to be. More often then not, going off trail is spontaneous because a moment of gratifying solitude is hard to plan. And you dont have to be alone to find that kind of solitude. I found myself putting down the fishing pole at the Fish Camp on a Philmont trek just so I could sit and watch the scouts fish. Along with scouts quiet in their task, I was surrounded only by the breeze in the trees, the trickling of the creek and an eagle circling above. Of course the choice to put down the pole is not the same off trail adventure as turning left to find yourself in the center of a meadow sitting between two mountains. But the inspiration is the same. Im not sure I can explain it where most people could understand. There are two many rules and in our lives that seems to erode our patience to listen. Barry

Hi All Dont assume anything becaue you are likely wrong, just mention the behavior and let the parents ask questions. I never had a parent resent hearing such information. Wouldnt you as a parent want to know? I talked to all the parents when we got back from and outings. Usually a few words to brag about their son, but occasionally there was mention of about not so good behavior. I wanted my parents to know everything about their sons scouting experience. Barry

>>If your older scouts are fed pablem year after year most will drop out. They need more challenge and more variety to keep growing...so a multi tiered, multi-purpose program makes for longer retention and a more energetic program.

>>As for your bike riding example, I don't think anyone has posted anything against using your resources have they? The exceptions should not create the rules.>If you have twelve scouts who want more adventure than the other scouts it would seem like a time to start Venture Patrols wouldn't it?

>>In fact be structuring the Patrols by age and skill level you can better follow the Patrol Method than by using mixed patrols, and you can keep scouts more active and interested, and in the program longer.

>>That simply isn't true. The older scouts who want to work with the younger ones can ofer their services to the SPL as Troop Guides and Instructors, as well as in other offices that serve all the members of the troop.

>>So here's an example of everyone going on the same outing, but having somewhat different activities: more advanced Scouts have a chance to do their own thing, middle group of Scouts are teaching and helping new Scouts.

Packing a pack does take practice. I think attaching a sleeping bag is one of the hardest parts of packing an external pack. But that was one reason I wanted younger scouts to get and external before an internal pack. Internal packs require a more systematic approach to packing, so the external gives them that practice. I personally remember that just rolling up my sleeping bag into a nice tight roll so that it didnt come apart from just picking it up was a challenge. Its all a learning experience, and for most, a fun learning experience. Barry