Eagledad

>>But the very focus of the Methods are to positively affect character, citizenship and fitness. so how could the use of the Methods not have a positive result if applied correctly?

Yes, just work with the District and council, they are very helpful. Barry

>>It is not that I did not answer Lauwit's questions. It is that the questions he poses are largely unrelated to the Uniform METHOD.

>> Unfortunately nothing that has been discussed in the thread to this point has the slightest thing to do with the Uniform Method.

>>Why be angry over a requirement? That seems very 'over the top'. I can understand simply not caring for it or not understanding its use as a requirement...but angry?

>>Could it be that the Uniform Method is the easiest to judge our success?

This may be too close, but Kwahadi Kiva Indian Museum in Amarillo. They charged us a dollar per scout way back when. Im sure the price is still a bargin. Very nice. http://www.kwahadi.com/hostel.htm Then there is Korshar Indian Museum in La Junta Colorado. One dollar/scout and good cheap food as well. But their Fancy Dancer program $1.00 is as good as any Fancy Dance you will see from Tribes in Oklahoma. And, it is all done by Boy Scouts. La Junta is in South East Colorado just east of Pueblo. http://kosharehistory.org/koshare/summerscouts.html Have a great trip. I know that is great hike. Barry

>>Of course he says he does, so I tell him to put it on, he is now an Eagle! They try to give it back say no they haven't earned it yet. NOW we can talk can get talk about what they are getting out of Scouts, not just pieces of cloth with colorful thread, but expierences, skills and fun.

Hi All >>Ed, you sound like a broken record. How about telling us WHY this should not be part of the Scouting program and WHY it should not be part of advancement. Make a case for your position.

>>On the hat issue, I would much rather be approached and informed that I was possibly not aware of the practices of the house of faith I was in than to be allowed to continue to offend those whose practices I was violating. Especially since continuing to violate them reflects poorly on both myself and my Troop and the BSA -

>>I cannot believe that any adult would condone that scouts be allowed to drag another one off against his will to do ANYTHING and to turn a blind eye to it, and that other adults would support such an action.

>>I do not see why the PLC should be asked to consider changing the plans just to suit his desires.

HI All Im not sure there is a right or wrong answer here. I do like Beavahers post because what I think he was trying to say is make sure the process maintains integrity. I know we want to give the scouts responsibility so they learn from the successes and failures, but there is a reason for a scoutmaster in a boy run troop. The SM is the foundation of wisdom for which all decisions are measured. In this case the SM should be encouraging the important trait of fairness. You may or may not have real good reasons for one election method over the other. But what you cant do is come out saying, Oh whatever, it is fine with me. I think you are doing it right so far. Barry

If you are ever in Oklahoma, look for a BSA plate with EAGLEDAD on it. Pull me over and I'll buy you lunch. Because I like this scouting stuff so much. Barry

The new Victory is one of those bikes Ive got to personally see to have an opinion. It is so far out there in the pictures that I have a hard time imagining myself on it. I hear great things about it. Lots of power and handles great. Very comfortable to ride except that it can get a little hot. I havent seen it around here yet. Honestly I hope the new bike does well, I understand Victory is struggling a little and Id hate to see them go the way of the Indian. Barry

>>I'd work with the CC to find a parent who can do communication tasks - hopefully with that person using the boys to do some of the work. The SPL should be designating and working with a lower APL/PL to help out.

Hi All, Walmart has some very nice fleece jackets on sale for $5. We were talking about how to cut cost down on back packing equipment. There were mentions that Walmart, Target and other similar stores put pack packing equipment and clothing on sale all the time. Well maybe we can announce when we see these good deals so the rest of us can tell our scouts. I love this scouting Stuff. Barry

Wonderful Sunday All I guess the short answer is if the boys dont learn communication here, then where? We once had a family where the mother was always complaining that she didnt know what was going on in the troop. She was on her younger sons pack committee where she had a controlling reputation. When her second son joined the troop, she joined as a Troop committee member. At our first new parents meeting, she announced to everyone that she designed a troop communications network, which didnt include the scouts anywhere in the process. It was a big complicated network, but she assured us she could handle the task. I hated to have to explain that this was a boy run troop and communication was their responsibility. And I could tell by her deer in the headlights look that she wasnt happy. SHe just never understood the idea of her sons learning something from their scouting experience. Her older son stayed in our troop, but she and the younger son left that month for another troop. Another time there was a point where the adults decided the scouts would take full responsibility for starting and finishing troop meetings. It was a struggle for a while, but the main motivation for the PLC to get control was from the parents waiting outside in the cold 20 to 30 minutes to pick up their sons. Leave the struggles up to the scouts, with a little quiet wisdom from the adults, they will figure it out. Another story! The patrol leader didnt call to find out if the grub master purchased the food for the next campout and as it turns out, he wasnt going and didnt tell anyone. They realized their situation as they were leaving the parking lot for camp. Communication improved a lot for that patrol. Same thing happened once when the SPL got sick, but didn't call anyone for a Saturday activity. He learned a lot from his ASPL at the next PLC. At what point do we let our children act like adults. The troop is a safe place to do just that. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

HI All I have to laugh at the first time we had a backpacking expert come in and talk to our familes. We were going on our first big backpacking trek in six months and we wanted to give the families and idea of their sons needed. Well by the time he finished his talk, each family needed to cough up $1500. That almost ended the trek, but we started all over and found someone who showed us how to get what we needed at less than a third the cost. You dont need to go for the expensive gear. For example you can find fleece vest, jackets and even pants at Walmart really cheap right now. Many discount stores and sporting goods stores have long pull off sports pants that repel water and more important wind really cheap. If you arent hooked on brand names, you can find 0% cotton socks very reasonable and there is no reason you cant find boots $50 to $100. Packs can get up to price pretty fast, but there are a few really good $100 packs and plenty of those same packs used on ebay. Personally I think the sleeping bag is the most expensive item of a back packer. But there are some great deals out there if you watch. I really enjoy reading Backpackers Gear Guide because I like that stuff, but honestly if you do a google search on backpack reviews or sleeping bag reviews and so on, you get reviews on a broader range of equipment. The difference between buying expensive gear and finding cheap gear is the amount of research you are willing to put in. I know you can spend 1/3 the cost for really good quality gear if you just check on Campmor.com everyday. And there are other stores, but Campmor is an easy online store to get an idea of good online camping stores. They have an outstanding selection of backpacking gear and daily sales all year long. But when they give good deals, they go fast. Still, you have to do enough research to learn what you want and dont want. We had a few members of our troop, me included, that watched the internet and would send out notices when we found a sale. I would also go to Walmart and then give a report at the next meeting. And there are a lot of gear reviews online as well. That is a good place to learn what makes some gear better than others. By the way, Oklahoma City is not a mecca for backpacking gear, but we have one store that sells high end stuff to scouts at big discounts. But what I really like about them is you can bring in a group of scouts and they will teach them about gear. And they dont try to sell their expensive gear, they do a really good job of telling the scouts what they can use around the house. So I would check with local venders to see if they give scout discounts. Oh, many of the online stores give Scouting discounts as well. Now is the time to start learning and buying discounted gear. I love this backpacking stuff. Barry

Happy Scouting All >>I'm now trying to figure out how to best address the dad's feelings.

>>you raise excellent points calico. The BSa and 4-h seem to share two out of the three basic principles, I am just not sure that I would be willing to give up God in order to be able to say that the BSA has X number more members than the 4-H has.

Umm, you need to go study up on the Girls Scouts, Campfire, and Canadian scouts and measure their success after attempting the same progressive design. Not one of those organizations has recovered to the success they had before they changed and I hear the Canadian Scouts is hanging on by a thread. That is a considerable feat considering that the Canadian Scouts had one of the strongest Scouting organizations in the early 90s. In fact, I have not heard a lot about Scouting outside US and Canada, but I wonder if any scouting program in other countries has done better after radically changing to make scouting appealing to everyone. Still, I admire thinking out of the box. Im with Hops_ scout, I think you will do great starting the Pappy Scouts and I wish you the best of luck. Barry

Sunny Oklahoma Wednesday All >>Not to take anything away from the cub scout program but from an adult leadership position the Pack should have less drama than a troop. The CC and CM run a show once month and help set-up a calendar for the year.

Just before I got back into this scouting stuff, our district use to participate in an Emergency Drill simulation that evolved all the Troops (maybe packs, I dont know), police, and fire departments. Everyone was give a designated two week period where they would get a disaster call. Usually in the middle of the night the city leaders would call a disaster emergency, (probably tornado since that is typical for our area) and then the police, fire, scouts and volunteer emergency clubs would all gather at the local armory for further instructions. This usually involved a 24 hour period where everyone worked together toward following the instructions. I dont know what those instructions were, but the scouts and scouter who participated said that it was a really good experience for everyone because it gave theme a sense of being an important part of the community. And it was a lot of fun working side-by-side with fire and police units. I think what killed the drill was emergency programs like FEMA. There are so many regulations involved with emergency management now that scouts are very restricted from where they can assist. When we had the tornado that took out 10,000 homes a few years ago in Oklahoma City, the scouts were ready go, but told to stay out until FEMA felt it safe. That was a couple months later. We were allowed to help sort through donated clothing items. Personally I cant think of a better way for a community to come together then a community drill once a year. It seems to me that the more our politicians try to put us under one big tent, the farther away our neighbors seem get. I like the power outage simulation idea a lot. That is becoming a common situation here in Oklahoma. Barry

>>It sounds like the problem was with the 91 year old chairman more than the district.