Eagledad

>>What does the scout have to say for himself?

>>Gee my webelos patrol had 2 dads who were trial lawyers so I guess I dodged a bullet. I also had 2 dads who were Marine officers so it kinda balanced out.

>>Oh that's what you chaps call a spanner! Now all those issues of Popular Mechanics makes sense. Ingenious

>>Barry you calling us spineless or a wimps for not giving boys knives or fire starting kits for a gift???????

Interesting, there is another thread on the forum discussing the difference between todays leaders vs leaders we remember, going on at the same time of this thread with some of todays leaders saying they wouldnt give a fire starter kit to a boy scout. There is a word for this, but I can't think of it. Barry

I guess I see the subject as simplistic. Of course adults are in it to have fun. If they werent most wouldnt do it. I think the tougher question is how much are we in it for the boys? Ive never been one to suggest that Boy Scouts is for the boys. I believe BSA is an adult organization intended to develop boys into men of character. Is that selfish or what. I learned the hard way that if the parents are having fun, they will happily bring their sons. That is especially true with Cubs and I wish I could get Cub leaders to take that to heart. But it has its application in the troop as well, even the best run troop will not succeed if the parents are uncomfortable dropping off their sons. If the adults are having fun, everyone is having fun. Barry

>>I, alone, already know what my intent is when I apply a term. That isn't in question

Find a competent Assistant CM to work with the CM. It will work itself out. Barry

>>I think it was a BIG mistake that their was not a War Tax. Everyone, beyond the families of servicemen and women needed to have skin in the game.

The Bush Tax cuts was a bipartisan vote to boost the economy and save jobs. Barry

Which makes one asks, what was the motivation to get a bipartisan agreement for the Bush tax cuts in the first place and what is different now? Barry

Eagle is right, it can depend on what works best for your scouts. Our PLC met 30 minutes before each troop meeting. They might meet an hour before the troop meeting once in a while if they needed some extra time for planning. Usually the SM brought the pizza. Barry

Communication. Our scouts, First Class or higher, take a basic leadership course before they could be on the PLC, and basic communication was one of the primary classes. The class taught simple things like how to politely greet people when answering the phone or making a call. Our troop used the phone tree at least twice a week to communicate to all the scouts, so they got lots of practice. But the main motivation for creating the class was the scouts' inability to communicate clearly and politely when calling a MB Counselor or speaker for meetings. Barry

>>The Bible is suppose to be the word of God.. There is no proof that it ever was.

>>Basementdweller has been there and done that, one person cannot or will not change the Good old boys club or status quo.

>>Seriously, if we could all treat each other with equal dignity and worth, that's good enough for me. It really doesn't matter if we think Bob is abnormal or is going to hell for his beliefs and/or actions, as long as we treat Bob the same way we want to be treated ourselves

LOL

>>I take it a "pro-homosexual" is someone who believes that all persons deserve to be treated with equal dignity and worth.

Hi All. We hear now and then that the volunteer positions at District or Council are totally political and manned by scouters who dont understand the struggles of the units. Sometimes this is true, but more often than not the quality of leadership outside the units is not planned or political. Oh, many volunteers are ambitious and climbing the ladder for the golden ring (Silver Beaver), but in most cases, the volunteers in the district or council have a position because they happen to be in the right place at the right time. But it got me thinking about my response to these theories of dark conspiracies. Something like Change starts with you, or We reap what we allow to sow. Truth is we all as individuals have a lot of power to make change happen if we just take that first step. The changes you want to make may not be instant and in fact may take a few years, but you can start the stone rolling with the right goals and physical effort. A few personal examples: I was invited to be the District Membership Chairman one year because the position had lacked energy for several years and the DE overheard me discussed some ideas at Roundtable. Make a note: be ready to walk the talk because you may be held accountable for your words. Ive been trained through the years of professional leadership training that productive leaders last about three years, so I recruited five other adults who I knew wanted to help at the district level with the idea that one would replace me in three years. And while each of those adults did do greater things for the District, one fantastic woman took the ideas we developed the past three years and ran a great Membership Committee for another three years. She did such a good job at membership that she was asked to take over District Training because it was struggling. She was awarded the Silver Beaver three years later for turning the training program around. And, she herself found several hard working adults for other committee positions that were there after she left. Another example: I had the opportunity as a WB Patrol Counselor to be a cheer leader for a group of adults. I got to spend enough time with these adults that I learned enough of their personal gifts and skills to guide in directions that would best advance the scouting program. I wasnt directive, I just pushed them to get more experience and training than they had originally considered when they joined the BSA. I basically just cheered them to reach higher than they saw themselves using their personal talents and passions. Long story short; six of the eight adults were invited by their districts to help in positions the District was weak. Two leaders became Scoutmasters. I wasnt pushing them toward any position, I was encouraging them to not be timid with their talents. Do the best you can with what you have because the BSA needs you. I know for a fact that those adults not only improved the quality of their unit with their work, but they helped hundreds of other scouts by working in their district. They made changes that helped many other adults provide better quality programs. I have many more personal stories, but I think the point is made and I would certainly invite more stories from the forum because they are encouraging, expecially when so many folks think it hopeless. You know it doesnt take all that much effort to be a cheer leader or recruiter. Most of the time, adults are just waiting to be invited to help. I remember once our District Commissioner was complaining that he could not find any commissioners. I sent him a list three days later of 12 volunteers that wanted a DC job. I used my talent of recruting to help improve the program. We can make a difference and there is a noble honor helping adults build better programs. There are hundreds of Scout stories of role models and mentors making a difference for boys, but there are many hundreds more stories of making a difference helping adults. I always preached that we can help hundreds more boys when we work at outside our unit. That is not to say our first priority shouldn't be the unit, but it doesnt have to be limited to the unit when we have additional time to share. I personally didn't take on any outside troop task while I was a SM because I wanted all my energy directed to the scouts. It also saved me from a divorced. But after I retired from SM, I was in high demand. If you dont like the way things are being done at District or Council, dont hold back because YOU can change it. At the very least you can be the one person with a different idea. You can make a difference. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Eagles are at a disadvantage from my observations. You only have to read the last few post to see the pedestal Eagle are put on just from the title. If an Eagle does well, then all Eagles do well. If an Eagle did bad, then all Eagles are bad. You have to feel sorry for Eagles because once they are found out, everyone tells them they should be the leader. It doesnt matter if they have the time, experience or enthusiasm for the job, theyre an Eagle, and they should lead. I once tried to talk an Eagle Tiger dad out of being a Tiger leader because I wanted him to save his enthusiasm for Webelos. But the pressure was too much and sadly he was gone by Webelos. He wasnt the superman folks think of Eagles. He burned out just like many of the other men and women who started at Tigers. I have watched several Eagles reluctantly step into a position they couldnt wait to leave just because of the pressure to be a leader and the left with in the year. Just like anyone else, those with enthusiasm do better than those without it. And I cant count the number of Eagles that were expected to take over the SM job as soon as their sons crossed over only to not join at all because they didnt want the SM job. Give the Eagles a break. I have worked with hundreds of adult leaders and the reality is you cant peg the future performance of most adults by their past experiences of life. Oh there as some basic principles that hold true. Ive already mentioned I observed that all other things being equal, an adult with no scouting experience will struggle to lead a quality program equal to an adult with a youth scouting experience. I have personally worked with and trained several female scoutmasters and honestly none of them were very good. But I have also worked with and trained several male SMs that didnt have any youth scouting experience either and they were just as bad. I dont think it was a gender thing. Im know there are a few good female SMs out there because I have met them here on the forum, but I have not met one in person yet. Our Council does have good luck with quality female Wood Badge Coordinators. Maybe thats because they are well experienced by that time. I have also worked with some really bad SMs who were Eagles. And I guess a couple folks on this forum think quality Scout leaders are determined by how much money they earn, but I never saw that. Rich or poor, quality was in the soul, not the pocket book. Im sure there are a lot of other personal experiences out there to propose opinions, but I would hope it was based more from many experiences instead of the one. Truth is we are more a like than we realize and we dont know how well we will perform as BSA scout Leaders until we get in the middle of it all. I think most folks are surprised. Barry

>>So if a parent wants to know if his boy is safe, it depends on the boy, not the program.

Im one of those who has made the point of leaders not having scouting experience. I could spend all day giving examples but my opinion is based from observing many units over several years. While some may have suggested it, I have never said that a non-experienced adult couldnt be good leaders. What I said is that I have observed that a unit of scouters with little or no youth experiences are typically about three years behind in developing the same quality program of a unit of adults who did have a youth experience. And I think you guys already pointed out part of the reason; "A non Scout leader who gets trained should do well, except that they MIGHT not have much background in outdoor skills like backpacking, orienteering, canoeing and such, and it takes a good deal of practical experience to be competent in those skills." It only makes sense that adults with vivid memories of camping and scout craft have an advantage over those who dont. They have experience that helps set priorities of scout crafts in the arena of camping. An example is the new Wood Badge trained SM who, was never a scout, that called me after his 6th campout with a new troop of 11 years. He asked me what else could they do on campouts besides advancement skills because his scouts were bored to death. Three years later he was a completely different Scoutmaster running a completely different troop. As for the question of why more youth experienced scouters dont step up, the answer is mathematically very simple, WOMEN. Almost 50% of the BSA adult leaders today are women and its reasonable that their added number of non youth experienced adults in the program dilute the number of adults with a youth experience. Im not sure why you feel the need to defend yourself Irsap, I praise you for your volunteerism and passion for scouting. But when we get into discussions of why scouting today isnt the same as it was 25 years ago, well its not hard to point out major differences like adult demographics. The difference is significant enough that National overhauled the whole training program to introduced a completely new training curriculums in 2000, much of which was a result of the demographic change of inexperienced leaders. Its not good or bad, just different and something to note. Barry

>>However, with that being said, what's the point of purchasing an instrument, practicing your butt off for many years, getting very proficient and then never having a concert?

>>Independence and self-confidence in a teenager is a major threat to parents in today's world. If my boy grows up to be independent and self-confident, he may leave home and make a life of his own. Seriously, there are a lot of parents that can't handle that idea.

You're ahead of me, I don't know what HWMBO is or means. I don't do facebook because that just too much information going out in public. I have to get a new phone only because technology has out run my 5 year old IPhone I. I hate that because my battery last two weeks, they me I can only get two days with new phones. I do text however, six text on last month's statement. It's not like I'm computer illiterate, I manage one of the highest technical research labs in the country, but I can only handle so much information at one time. I am also a creature of habit, I still enjoy reading the newspaper, its comfortable. I do enjoy the IPad, I know you will too Eamonn Barry