Eagledad

>>I'd tell the CC that I would drop the merit badges immediately, even in the middle of counseling scouts, if the CC even thinks about attempting to force me to water down the requirements, and doesn't back me up 100%.

>>There is no government conspiracy - it's people doing what they learned from their elders. Teach your children well.

Im trying to understand why the CC called you. Are they asking you to change or just passing along information. Its ok, even behooves, unit leaders to expect counselors follow published procedures and performance. But if you are following the published procedures, what is the point of contacting you? The CC needs to be diplomatic with everyone while at the same time providing a buffer between parents and unit volunteers until the misunderstanding is resolved. Its not a matter of who is right or wrong, it is a matter of everyone agreeing on common expectations of all the scouts. The CC shouldnt be passing along ananymous parents opinions, they should working to find and educate everyone of the units common expectations. If the counselor isnt following the published expectations, then some training is required. If the parents or scouts have different expectation than what is published, their expectations need to be changed. I would contact the CC and ask exactly what they are expecting from the MB counselors and scouts. Then get everyone on the same page. The CC shouldnt just be passing along grumblings and complaints getting folks upset, they should be finding and fixing the misunderstanding. Barry

13 year old divorcees and widows? Hmm, it's worse than I thought. Barry

I don't remember the city because it was several years ago, but a law was passed where underage girls could get an abortion without a parent's permission. At the time, it was the only surgical procedure that could be performed on a minor without a parent or guardians signature. Barry

This is that "Frog in the Pot" thing. Have todays teenagers ever heard of shotgun weddings? From Fox News: "Parents not told NYC schools dispensing morning-after pill" http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/24/13-new-york-city-schools-provide-morning-after-pills-to-teens/ ""The New York City Department of Education is providing morning-after pills and other birth control drugs to students at 13 city high schools."" Barry

>>My freshman has made a group at high school that meets on the same night as scouts. I need to explore some options of how to keep him active.

>>I mean it really doesn't seem odd to me that friends want to stay together...when you split them up, it probably irritated them...so you got bad (or worse) behavior. It they really are difficult to deal with, putting them in one patrol limits the damage they can do.

In most cases you are right Beveaher, but there really wasn't a lot to say in that discussion. Lesson to learn, Im not sure. Merlyn gets credit for posting a factual story, but the reality is Merlyn was just taking another slap at the BSA. OK, so we should turn the other cheek, which many of us did. But the subject was also an opening for those so called friends of the BSA to get their lick in as well. There are some disturbed mean angry folks in this group and one has to wonder if they talk to their scouts the same way. I think its fair to say that 2/3s of the posts contributed nothing to that discussion. Maybe even of the posts. The posts about the Eagle project is even more disturbing. The poor OP got hit with ridiculous personal accusations that certainly had nothing to do with the subject. To be honest, Im embarrassed for us as scouters when new folks are fried because of the way they asked a real scouting question. In fact, it is likely they will get accused of something no matter what they ask. Are we supposed to learn from such intellectual discourse? Until we start holding each other accountable for juvenile attacks on each other, real discussions are going to become more rare and we will only attract angry folks dressed as scout leaders looking for a place to vent. Lets face it, this forum is an attraction for such folks. Barry

>>Your first post made it sound like the boys just wanted to be together and were acting up because they couldn't.> They come to meetings with or without uniforms, or worn incorrectly. They only hang out together, and not within their patrols. They misbehave at camps and activities. And they get angry and cause problems when they can't do these things. There parents aren't getting involved, leaving it up to me to sort out. Their parents are also serving on the Committee. Maybe it's because we had this exact same experience, but I didn't get the feeling the boys just acting up because wanted to be together. In fact, down to the rich kid, my experience is almost identical. Because of our four scouts, our troop was asked to NOT come back to next years summer camp. Send them home you say.. THE PARENTS WERE THERE! The scouts weren't really the problem, their parents lack of parenting skills was the problem. As I said, we fixed our situation by telling the parents to participate side by side with the sons. While the parents were good friends and hard workers, we don't miss them. Barry

>>Beavah, I picked you because you are one the LAST persons I'd ever expect would hope for something like that, thus (or so I hoped) emphasizing the 'hypothetical' nature of the comment.

>>I think in the whole forum people need to remember to treat one another with respect.

The information here is limited, BUT I had the exact same situation with four scouts. It wasn't about not being in the same patrol, these guys just didn't enjoy scouting. Long story short, we required the parents (ASMs) to attend the troop activities side-by-side with their sons and the problem quickly sorted itself out. The parents were more embarrased by their sons' behavior than the scouts themselves. Barry

>>Agree with the others; the scout should have been discussing this with the Commander and you, the SM. Was this the sole purpose of the "business meeting"?

Yes, maybe Im just going a little over the top, I am sure we all pretty much agree on adult motivated aggressive programs. Im very confident that Twocub is an outstanding SM because he gave an impressive list of approaches to guiding a scout to broader program. However, the challenge is how to say No to the adults without saying the N word. It is a common problem with scouts whose parents are pushing their sons to Eagle. But the aggressive parent for first class seems like an every year problem for new scouts going to summer camp. Its enough of a problem that we warned first year parents early that their scouts are restricted to only three MBs with swimming and canoeing being two of them. The reality is scouts can earn as much as they want, but we try to give them room to find out if MBs is what they want to do at summer camp. Or even pass all the requirements to first class. Some parents are quite passionate about their sons advancement. A few require special attention in explaining why we arent in as much of a hurry. I can think of two Life Scouts who asked me to speak to their parents about slowing down their Eagle time table. These were those go out for coffee kind of conversations and I certainly dont take sides, but instead try to listen to both sides. But when you get to that level of conversation, those parents usually don't just jump up and agree. I learned that one star generals do not like those kinds of converstations. Some parents will see the SM as the problem. The parents of two scouts changed troops. Another mother didnt force her older son to leave only because her younger loved our troop, but she sure wanted to. Older son never got Eagle but younger son was one of those scouts that age 16 was the SPL, Venture Crew Leader, Eagled, and planned a one week backing trip for a crew of ten. Mom has never forgiven me about older son and hasn't spoken to me in years. So it can be a challenge. I asked Troop scouters to remove the obstacles that can hold a scout back, but I tried to explain to all visiting parents how the advancement part of our program fit in the over objective of building men of character and leaders of integrity. I got better at this scouting stuff, but there is always that one parent that requires learning a new skill. Barry

>>The loss of those Scouts to boredom, Barry, was more the fault of the Webelos program than the troop.

>>In almost 8 years of Scouting, I have met only 1 of those kids. One in Hundreds of Scouts I have met

>>This kind of thing is obviously a goal set by adults, not boys.

>>That would be the only reason.

>>If you all need little strips of cloth.....chase them.....I need more than that.....

I agree with Sentinel947's last post and in fact coach the same advice to adults of new troops. I like units to maintain a consistant PORs long so that scouts know position does. Jumping back and forth from SPL to PL depending on the number of scouts can be confusing and requires changing reorganizing of responsibilities each time. I've said before that scouts' basically learn just about all their skills and management methods by the age 14. If the program doesn't have a consistant routine and expectation of responsibilities, the older scouts will struggle. And, our troop uses Sentine1947's organization roster of the ASPL being responsible for "Troop" acitivity planning while the SPL is responsible for Troop organizational management. I admit the SPL has and easy job with the PL doing 90% of the organizational management in a one patrol troop, but it wasn't much different with our SPL and seven patrols. A good SPL stands in the background of the Patrols leaders waiting to serve them, not lead them. Barry

>>But the man has a point.......

>> * Wilderness Survival * Insta-Leader * Service above Self

The best advice for adults is develop a program where a scout grows (advances) at his pace. Is it a bad program if the scout chooses five months? There are some amazing kids out there. I personally have never seen it done in five months, but I've seen a few in 10 months. That is still pretty aggressive, but it's the scouts choice. Now of course there is a problem with units that develop a program where all scouts earn first class in five months, but that program is going to have all kinds of other issues too. Barry

Don't think about this in setting number of activities, think in quality of units. Idealy district activities are intended to guide an expected level of performance from its units. If the units are doing well, the district doesn't need to provide a lot programs. If your units are strugging, prioritize a list that will best help the units. When a district committee is limited by volunteers and resources, it should only provide activities it can do well. If your committee can't do one well, then save the volunteers time and energy for activities it can do well. Barry