Eagledad

And when was leadership- a marketing problem, 1933? As I said, a scouting experience was a valued resource in WWII because of the leadership image. I think you are wrong to look at leadership as a skill for scouts. LEADERSHIP IS AN IMAGE of scouting. In fact, it could be argued that leadership is as much of an image as adventure. If the problem isn't enough adventure, which I might agree, then lets fix the marketing of adventure. Barry

How many new adults come in with the instincts of "train them, trust them, and let them go." The whole reason for this discussion is adult instinctively take over. So, I feel the idealism being presented here is missing the point. Adults have to have a goal and a plan just to keep the program out of the gutters. My point is if you take leadership out of the plan, the adults will take leadership out of scouting. Leadership has always been part of scouting. IF you want to keep leadership in scouting, even if leadership is a by-product of just participating in patrol activities, leadership

Well, changing Methods is another difficult discussion. Take out Leadership Development, I am all for taking out Adult Association since that seems to be the real problem here. The problem here is that the public does believe leadership is part of the program. I know of several single parent moms that put their son in Scouting to get that development. If you take leadership out of the core of scouting, who is to hold it accountable. Maybe the problem is that adults need to learn not to take any responsibility for the methods. Methods should be a checklist for PLC to insure they are f

Taking Leadership Development out of Scouting would be like taking the creamy white filling out of the Oreo cookie. Barry

This reminds me of a campout the PLC planned where the patrols would went on a course with a 3 mile hike, 5 mile bike ride and canoeing navigation course. The patrols had 15 stops where the had to do a skills competition. Very complexe and we thought it would take the whole Saturday. All the patrols carried lunch with them, but in the end, all 6 patrols completed the course by noon and eat lunch in the camp site. But, the story in the story is I got a call from a pack leader a week before asking if their 3 dens of 23 Webelos could camp with us to check out the troop. I wasn’t sure how we

Our PLC planned at least 2 hours of free time each afternoon on weekend campouts. I once got a call from a new SM with no youth experience ask me how to keep the scouts busy on campouts, He had run out of advancement activities and needed ideas. My first advice was two hours of free time. His reaction was that it was two hours where the scouts would get themselves in trouble and immediately discounted the suggestion. Adult leaders without a youth scouting experience are 3 years behind adults with a youth scouting experience. Even then, they need to see patrol method in action during those

When made adventure and patrol method the two highest priorities of the program. We started with 15 scouts and 10 years later our troop of around 100 scouts was producing an Eagle every 2.5 months. The average age of the scouts going through their EBOR was 16.5 years old. Like your troop, advancement was not a high priority. But, when the scouts enjoy a fun program in the outdoors, advancement activities are a natural by-product of a healthy patrol method program. Most of the Scouts didn't even realize they were close to Eagle when they started to look at it seriously. When puberty

I always struggle with this explanation because it's not about female that set the program back, it's the large influx of adults without any scouting experience. I was there, so I know the passion and enthusiasm moms brought to the troop program. I personally trained many female Scoutmasters. But, like just about all male and female leaders without a scouting experience, they didn't have the experience as a youth to guide them into what drives youth to scouts, ADVENTURE!. Adults by their nature look at stature as the goal of their adults decisions. Adults strive to be better at everythin

The majority of alumni big donors didn’t stop their donations around 2000. Barry

I believe the pros at National did loose focus on the boys and the ideals of developing character. They lost the concept of scouting and it’s values, so they justified their existence with Greed for money and members and change the program in two areas that hit the program hard. First, they went after first graders to increase cub recruitment. That blunder brought in boys with a toddler maturity, which didn’t mix well with the advanced maturity of the rest of the age groups. The increased overhead pack management burned out the adults and they left. Second, National brought in femal

I agree, but the killer is Tigers. Most of the Tigers are still Toddlers and should be split from the Pack program. The difference of listening skills and reading skills is night and day. That one year of a classroom experience creates a night and day difference for behavior between the two ages. In fact, we did reduce our Tiger program to just two meetings a month and our membership retention rate went from 30 percent to 95 percent. Ironically, the Tiger program demands so much adult management that is drains the adults resource pool to the point that adult burnout is the main cause of

I'm not sure what you are saying here, but the discussion of this rabbit trail is about the ideological images of scouting, not the activities of the program. Most scouts also haven't heard the BSA Mission, Vision, Aims, and Methods. But, those ideals and program strategies hold the program on the ideological course of developing scouts to make confident decisions based from the Oath and Law. I do agree you that many scouts have been disappointed by a program that isn't presented in the FUN of outdoors as they were expecting. But, that is different discussion. Barry

Hi All. I rarely, rarely ever disagree with Fred, but I believe he is not looking at the leadership image correctly. And I really don't think we are disagreeing, but I need to express my opinion on the Scouting leadership image. I will start off by saying that if one were to poll the average person outside of the BSA of the 3 most important traits a scout gains from the scouting experience, the majority of the that polling would say leadership is one of the three. Leadership IS an image of the scouting program. Leadership is the image of a Scout. The image is so powerful that the des

The problem with ideas like this along with Defund The Police is that proposals without details come off as emotional venting. What are the staffing positions? What are their responsibilities? How much do they make? Where is the real fat? Barry

Not at all personal. I don't harp on the visionary stuff because I think it will turn on a light, I say it often to make sure it remains as an idealistic principle. I also don't spend enough words separating the main goal or vision of the unit separately from the main goal of the BSA, the Vision. I believe success is based from a team agreeing on the same goals. Our troop initially set the goals that the scouts will be the leaders, it will be boy led and FUN. You're right Matt, making moral decisions makers doesn't really explain how the program makes good leaders. So, we made a checklist that

Yes, it is a lot to unpack. The thing to understand is that there is an opportunity here for your scouts to practice making adults decisions. I understand there will be challenges, but it's the heart of intent for the adults that is the challenge. The adults can come up with a lot of reasons to not let scouts make independent decisions, but where there is a will, there is a way. The adults need to have the will. The other suggestion to take to heart is have fun. Adults struggle with fun at summer camp because they are used to being methodical and responsible. Adults look at fun as a rew

A lot depends on the maturity of your scouts, but summer camp is the best patrol method experience a troop can get if you take advantage of it. Our troop request two camp sites near each other; one for scouts and one for adults. We ask adults to not walk around camp with scouts so that they have the experience of finding their way around without adults and practice the discipline of getting to their destinations on time. AND, experience the consequences of failing in both cases. The scouts are required and expected to always have a buddy and tell their Patrol Leader or SPL where they

Makes sense, we typical look for a GS in our neighborhood and purchase A LOT of cookies from her. They were nowhere to be seen this year. Out-of-sight, out-of-mind. I need to remind my wife about the 12 month shelf life because we are still nibbling on last years batch. Or are they year before? Barry

Like most of the youth programs, OA is the vision of the adults in the moment. I have seen OA programs cross the spectrum of what the handbook says they are. Sadly, many adults see their part in the program as the key to the image and they take out the honor of the OA. As scoutmaster, I supported the elections, but stayed away from the program because I didn't care for the adult side of the program. That being said, the scouts in my troop were in leadership roles for about 10 years. Since our troop wasn't involved with OA other than holding elections, I attribute the success of our scouts

Yes, of course. Barry

My problem with OA today is that the program drivers (adult sponsors) don't plan a program where the activities practice growth toward the honor of serving others and camping. As a scout in the 70's, young scouts learned quickly that Arrowmen where experts in the outdoors and they could ask any question for help. And, since serving was their other character traits, they were usually easy to approach and lacked the arrogance many of the older scouts had. Frankly, the election process back then filtered out immature scouts and scouts who only wanted the Arrowmen status. Those are the main m

Sounds like the unit is starting with a good CC. That is a step forward many units don't have. I've been in your shoes; a new unit with new adults. There are two important contributors to a new unit starting in the right direction; vision and humility. I was assigned to working with struggling units and the one contributor that just about all these units had in common is lack of vision. The adults didn't know where they were going, so they didn't know what part to take in the team. Instead, they all tried to just fill in where the program appeared to need help, It was chaos. There i

Yep. Even if there was some value from the old SMs comments, it lost any integrity by the way it was delivered. Changing scoutmasters is tricky because the new scoutmaster has to find their footing without the heavy shadow of previous SM hanging in the air. Yet, the old SM can be a great resource. But, it’s tricky. At the request of my replacement, I took six months off from the program. And when I did give advice, it was in person or through the CC. Actually, the CC was the person who sought out most of my advice with some of the challenges the new SM found himself in. I th

Done correctly, commissioner is both fun and rewarding. But, that kind of program requires good leadership. District Commissioner was my dream job after I retired from Scoutmaster, but council and district burned me out the next few years and I retired completely from scouting. They came to my door and offered me the job 3 years later, but I developed to many new habits with the family to jump back into the program. My loss. Barry

That is rare, but the way it should be. How do you rate your commissioner corp.? Barry