Eagledad

You can rest easy, I'm here. Now, what's this about giving animals parking tickets. We need to get on top this. Barry

Really! This is very offensive. I’d like to see your polling data. Barry

Of course, your reputation for self-righteous posts proceeds this post. Condescending implications are immature at the very least and rarely ever produce positive outcomes. In fact, it usually produces the opposite results. There is no doubt you would be jumping into anyone treating your kids what you claim you are justified doing on this list. Scouting is exactly about teaching scouts how to use the scout law for giving a personal perspective without being demeaning or insulting. Intellectual discussions requires to first respect the other persons and presenting oneself without u

When a poster threatens, DARES, or intimidate the list to agree with their opinion, then something has to change. Barry

Yep, adults require as much, if not more, teaching than the scouts. I taught a boy run and patrol method class in our council for two years. Let's require something like that for both the SM and CC. We kind of have the camp that Fred describes. While troops can camp there (we sent our patrols there when they wanted to camp without adults back in the day), the facilities were built with teaching in mind. It also has a COPES course and Climbing/Rappelling tower and pool for unit activities and adult certifications. I agree with Eagle94's concerns, I'm sure Fred does also, but th

So, a little advice from someone who has this experience with 16 scouts. I ran the meeting basically like a troop where the two patrols were still part of one program. Running seperate dens requires at least twice the number of volunteers. easier to find one leader with three assistance than 3 leaders and 3 assistance. As a SM, I personally don't believe scouts need all that much Patrol Method experience to be successful in the troop. Our troop has a very good program to get new scouts up to speed. I instead believe they need confidence for a troop programs. And they way I did that

I wasn't the poster who suggested weeding out. But, there are several posters who have said basically the same thing, not by the traditional scouters wanting the go back to the old ways, but by the progressive members looking to bring scouting into a better light. Neither are bad, but balance is required to come up with positive ideas. Because of my experience, I was often called by districts and council to visit and counsel struggling programs. In just about all cases, those programs struggled because they did not understand BSA mission or the process toward that mission. Improving a uni

Weed out is a bad use of terms. JTE or something similar shows the unit adults where they need to improve. In most cases, units that don't improve don't last long anyway. But, some further training could help units that struggle to understand the principles of the list. And, as far as know, data on these list wasn't collected. But, that would be a indicator to learn and react to trends. Barry

Good posts. I agree with all of it, but you left out one very big problem that is getting in the way of running good units; Top Heavy programs that burn out the adults. As evidence to how National suffocates it's members. National required additional adults to the tiger program in 2000 that resulted in lower Cub membership, which resulted in lower Troop member around 2005. 2005 is the age the Tigers in 2000 would have joined Troops. National needs to reduce the management requirements for adults, especially in the Cub program. Taking Tigers out of the Cub program would be a good start to redu

They already do it with programs like Journey to Excellence. A troop doesn't have to be ranked against other troops to know how it performs to the BSA expectations when they are asked to thank themselves on the list. We called it something different 25 years ago, but the Journey to Excellence is a good shoehorn to guiding troop programs. I also think the Tour Permit worked for the same reason because it gave expectations to insure the troop traveled safely and had properly trained scouters for the activities planned. National gave that up, I don't know why, but it was clear enough th

Good response, thanks. Let me start with your uniform statement; I'm not sure where the negative uniform in the youths eyes is comi8ng from. My observation is more the adults that think it negative and project that on the youths. But, when talking to most scouts, they don't mind the uniform, and in fact, the girls scouts new uniform has gone back to the more traditional scouting style. All that being said to point out that we hear a lot of adults perceptions of the program that don't seem to hold true in the general perception. Either the perception is a personal bias, or it's a local bi

This is a very interesting and unexpected response. I have said for several years now that the trend of scouting is going toward an after school type program. As a result of the BSA pulling in the family and getting away from the patrol method, an after school program is the natural result. I don't believe females are more prepared for STEM, just more comfortable with the STEM environment than outdoor camping. I believe, Men, and women, who are uncomfortable with outdoors choose the STEM because the environment for teaching STEM is more comfortable, and perceived safer. And I wonder if t

This interesting reading. My observations are that when female leader are given direction over a troop program. They tend to steer away from outdoors. I’m wondering if that is why STEM is being pushed so hard. Barry

I remember some folks in 1995 stating the BSA was loosing membership because they didn't accept gays. They had nothing to prove their statement, mostly because where would they find it, even if it was true. Of couse those of us working in Membership had a different opinion. I've been out a while, but I could show where the drop out numbers were going and it had nothing to do with CO responsibilities or gays. Of course culture expectations have changed a bit, but our data was so pronounced that I'm confident CO responsibilities and gays are still way low, if not completely off the radar a

Interesting, I was reading the thread about CO support of units and it reminded me of the struggle we had with our CO. It started out good, but we started seeing a trend toward less support. That was OK so long as we had facilities for meetings, but, then the CO started charging us for meetings outside of regular weekly troop meetings. Then they started asking us to pay for damages caused by our scouts. Turns out it was the Girls Scouts and the church youth groups causing the damage, but that didn't stop them from putting tighter requirements on us. After several failed attempts to impro

My veterinarian told me the reason chose veterinary school instead of med school was he didn't want to deal with people. Little did he know when he made that decision that pet owners can be more demanding and unreasonable. Very few volunteers think about the difficulties of working with other volunteers, and parents. We just believe everyone is this thing for the same reason and all of us will get along. My wife logged that we got at least one parent complaint call every night for the first two years I was Scoutmaster. Oh, I have many many other stories of adults acting badly from the Cu

We had one campout where one patrol only had one scout. It wasn't planned that way, but the other scouts bailed out Friday of that week for one reason or another. The scout had the patrol food, so he said, why not. He got a big ovation from the other patrols at the end of camp before loading cars to go home. He had a lot of fun. Barry

OK, it's your troop. Also, they don't have to do big activities. Meeting for a movie (covid?) might be fun to organize. As I said, its about quality of the BSA mission. Taking a break my be just that. Barry

Change, or not, is really about program quality. Not, trying to conform with lacking resources. Can you improve on "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law" by being more active in the summer months. I don't know, but, if let's say you wanted to try a month where the patrols propose, plan and run a patrol campout, or activity, giving them more practice taking full autonomy of their program, as an attempt to give them more opportunities to make ethic

Always trying to seal the deal by throwing out the self-righteous card. I guess if that is the only way you can get the last word, well, good for you. What value did that last sentence add to the rest of the post. There is no integrity in leaning on using shame to try and get your way. You say you support the BSA, but you can't even present your opinion without dishonest bias against the BSA. Something doesn't fit here. I struggle with all this because data it doesn't have the balance of real life to show an outsider how managing a scout unit really works. 20 years ago volunteers we

And this is the reasoning where we disagree. You are suggesting the impossible. The BSA set the system in place to protect the kids. But, they aren't negligent for the bad actions of individuals. Barry

True, but it could be the death nail. And, honestly, your response suggest how far you are willing to let this go. You are probably justified, I wouldn't go there anymore. You are victim looking for restoration of your life. Plain and simple. You can't control the system trying to work that out, so don't get in the habit of justifying the wreckage. Surly you can respect our passion for the mission and vision of the program and the impact of its loss to our culture. I'm not saying our pain is greater than your's, but the inequity of how it's being resolved just feels immoral. B

The organization was struggling before the law suit. There is a risk. But if you want to get more into details, lets say at the very least the program as intended by the current mission and vision is at risk. Barry

Your basic reasoning all along has been the numbers. Many of us were personally solicited (pushed) by law firms to join the law suit. When everyone is asked to join, the numbers become meaningless against my experience. Barry

Well said. I'm not sure where I stand with putting some burden of the compensation on everyone for the bad acting of a very few. That is a worthy discussion. But, the risk is that the inconvenience is the total loss of the BSA. I think it reflects the unfairness of the situation. Barry