Eagledad

Suggesting that the loss of scouting for future youth is not a form of moral loss to the culture (my words for abuse) is to suggest the program itself does not promote moral and character growth. That would mean that the BSA mission of " to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." is not valid. I have personally witnessed in my own personal observations of many scouts who came to scouting to get away from abusive, harmful and stressful environments in their personal lives. They craved a place w

Again, I can't see it. I believe they may have data in the areas they have more direct control like the MBs. But not unit level unless the units were more forthcoming. I was told (unofficially) about 25 years ago that the biggest source of abuse in the BSA was MB counselors. Which, made sense at the time because youth protection policies where just starting to include MB counselors. I could see some better data their because counsels have a little more control at the level of the program. National could have more data, but it would surprise me. Barry

All of your points may be part of the reason. My observation of the BSA bureaucratic and managing functions of the organization is that they aren't organized or efficient enough to acquire such data. How much of abuse calls are actually abuse and not just threats by parents to get their way. It's a lot. Or, how much real abuse is handled within the unit and never reported outside the unit. Again it's a lot. What one parent's definition of abuse is another parents idea of discipline. Very common in sports also. And then, how can that even be categorized? I have a great deal of experience w

We learned the hard way that sometimes the best reaction to bad behavior is to quietly ask the scout to call their parents. They always made the call. Not as a punishment, but for a period of calm. Many times bad behavior (really bad decisions I guess) requires time for thought instead of instant reaction. Many of the scouts felt calling parents was a punishment. But, they also knew it was a last resort and they pushed too far. Once they were asked to make the call, there was no going back. And it wasn't just the adults, the senior scouts could make the decision. They rarely did without

Yes, you are right. When parents visited our troop, I told them that the troop (troops in general) is a safe place. Most misinterpret that to mean that scouts are safe from physical and mental harm, but I explain what it really means is scouts are safe from persecution for their bad decisions. The nature of learning and maturing from wrong decisions is making wrong decisions. The challenge for the adults is accepting wrong decisions as growth toward good character, not bad character in of itself. Most adults find that a hard challenge because our parenting nature is to coach change

No, not all is related to child safety. My teacher kids tell me many of the safe guards and policies are for protecting the teachers. Kids aren't stupid, they know how to take advantage of a system and some are willing. Scouting is becoming a thing of the past because the success of the program relies on trust. Even this discussion is how to undermine that process. Scouting is a practice of applying the Scout Oath and Law instead of rules and policies. The culture (or is it counter-culture) wants rules and polices. Barry

More than once I took a scout home after a campout because their parents never showed up. It only happen once for that scout because it was one of the few times the parent had to meet a grumpy scoutmaster. Barry

Hmm, as a former coach, I had to deal with more abuse than in scouting. You folks are thinking sexual abuse, but I think in the context of adult power over the youth. I have seen a lot of abuse, or near abuse, when coaches loose their temper at the players, But sometime flare ups are at each other, which is scary in of itself for youth. My older son quit soccer from two coaches of apposing teams got into a fist fight. And, this was in front of other parents. And it may not even be tempers, but adults applying their power on the players by just yelling to get them to perform certain action

You are correct. Barry

MattR has something here. Most folks don’t realize that the SM is selected by the committee. I encouraged all the CC’s in our district, and in WB, to take the SM Fundamentals course so they would understand the Patrol Method vision and the SMs main objective. The CC has the power of the units program. While I was the District Membership Chairman, I was tasked with counseling struggling Cub, troop, and Venturing units. In almost all cases, the common root problem was the committee did not know or understand the mission and vision of the program. As a result, adult leaders didn’t understand

I agree with David CO. When a scout joined the troop, I told the Scout in our first conference that I had total trust in him and it was up to him to change that trust. The problem with adult leaders in many troops is they tend to think of 11 years olds and 11 year old boys instead of adults with lesser experience. Truth is we don't know the maturity or life experiences of new scouts, so why assume they aren't trustworthy. New employees of a company are typically trusted with the responsibility to change when they make wrong decisions in their work. Inexperienced often start their sc

My two favorite subjects. Not to be confused with accounting. Seems math is not an exact science with accountants. 😂 Barry

OK, but ThenNow is saying that he is here to provide information, but in providing information, he keeps giving a personal, not so kind opinion, of the BSA, Then defends himself as just the messenger. Continued Unleasing on him. All of us here whine now and then about National, but at least we admit it. He needs to be a scout like with us as he says the BSA is supposed to be.

As I said before, why are you here? Barry

If trend is a unit problem, correct with instruction at the unit level. Trends aren't personal, so don't make the correction personal. When the correction involves the parents and scouts, then instruct the parents and scouts together. Barry

God blessed us by creating us all differently. Barry

I have coached a lot of folks on their tickets. My first question is have you talked to CC and SM. I know that you said the CC step down, but he could still advised some direction for the troop needs. Talk to the SM as well. I am not one to suggest being very diversified, especially if you are new. Keep it simple. Don't take on big projects that require skills you've never used. How many camporee disasters were planned by a scouter working a ticket item. Too many. And, instead of being a planning leader for activities like fund raising or Scouting for Food, , write your ticket to

I thought the 4th law of motion was "a scout is always hungry". Hmm, I can't seem to google it..

Yes, I agree. But now the culture and community don't show agreement of the bad behavior because activist promote self expression of the youth. Not all that long ago, neighbors would stop and report concerning behaviors to the parents and the parents would take care of their children's issues. Today the community turns a blind eye to the behavior by youth because they don't want to get involved with a hostile response from the parents, and possibly the community. It doesn't even have to be sexual, often the police are called by concerned citizens when they see a child walking to school.

It's just balance to the few here marketing the program as unsafe against predators. Barry I appreciate that, thanks. Barry

I'm sorry for your pain, I really am. But, I don't know why you are even here. I've talked to a lot of people about this subject and accepting for a couple of angry posters on this forum, nobody believes the BSA is haven for abused boys or predators. Sure, scouts were abused by bad people and laws were broken. The historical reputation of the scouting program holds it's integrity. I hope you get what is coming to you, but I also hope you get the help for getting a healthy mind and back to a normal life because telling off BSA members on a BSA forum is not going to do it. The BSA and it'

I agree as far as not allowing such things, but not calling it abuse. Barry

Yes, but when we are talking about 600 claims, skinny dipping and strip poker doesn't rate up their with some of the monstrous stuff being talked about. Barry

I would have thought there would have to be some predator motivation to make a claim. I don't see a predator in your incident. A lot of scouts used to go down stream at summer camp to skinny dip. Claims? Barry

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks. Barry