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  1. So I have been given a lot of awards in scouting. More knots than allowed on a uniform, never thought much about them and kinda blew them off. Well tonight at our Bridge of Honor, I was awarded the Unit Leader Award of Merit. The thing that makes this stand out to me is that I was nominated and recommended for the award by my scouts. That makes it special to me.
    9 points
  2. I was a candidate for the TCC. When I interviewed with the US Trustee & Co., I told them I did not wish for the demise of the Scouts. He said, "That sentiment is pretty much universal among all the men we are interviewing." I thought you might find that interesting, though clients seldom drive cases of this type, which loops back to the motives and goals of certain attorneys.
    6 points
  3. For me it's not so much what BSA should have done, it's that it even happened in the first place. BSA, like the Catholic Church, staked out a higher moral ground where participants expected everyone to be held to exemplary standards. Other youth organizations, like sports or 4-H, exhorted you to enroll your kids but they didn't bleat about religious values or character or morality. Ironically, that lack of moralizing may have protected them to some degree. The church and BSA did and then failed miserably in recognizing how predators would use that to cloak their actions. We were in the kid and
    3 points
  4. Not just teens in general, abuse victims blame themselves, or do not want to get the abuser in trouble, or think if they report they'll get in trouble, or that it will result in some other bad thing happening. This is something that BSA YPT gets through fairly well and the Catholic youth protection (Virtus is the main one for most dioceses) pound this into people's heads. Young people need to know there are people they can go to in order to report. It may not always be mom/dad/parent/guardian. They need to know they can come to an adult who will help them and that won't turn them away.
    3 points
  5. You are applying today's rightful indignation to things that happened a long time ago. An era where the kids were doubted and blamed for accusing nice upstanding people. An era where people commonly drove drunk. Where men were understood to have certain rights over their wives. Where banks commonly denied based on race or religion. Where many things are viewed today as ghastly that back then were just things you deal with. Today is a different time. Period. Looking back, it's hard to know when police were called and not. In the pseudo case provided, the parent could have c
    3 points
  6. This simply isn't true. First and foremost libel has to involve a false statement. If Johnny's father comes to a BSA official and says Scoutmaster X molested Johnny, BSA official can call the police and say, Johnny's father said Scoutmaster X molested Johnny. There can be no falsity in that statement. The BSA CANNOT be held liable for any defamation even if Johnny and/or his father were lying. Outside of reporting to the police, BSA never would have to publicly accuse anyone of anything. If they had any belief that a person might be a molester they simply had to remove him from the
    3 points
  7. I agree 100% with your judgement that BSA's response was above-average and generally legally correct, by the standards of the time. But please remember that the bankruptcy proceeding is not "the" lawsuit. At the end of 2019, the BSA was the defendant in dozens of lawsuits (mostly abuse, a handful of wrongful-death, and the GSUSA trademark suit). The Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding allows the debtor (BSA) to invite everyone who has a claim to come forward and be treated equally. It's sort of a reverse lawsuit, the debtor comes to the court and says "I know (or at least guess) that I owe all
    3 points
  8. You are responding without reading. The war is not against the victims or the attorneys. The fight is countering the non stop onslaught of negative publicity with proactive positive messages, of which BSA has many. Let's take the Catholic Church. Lawsuits have never shut Pope Francis up.
    3 points
  9. Legal and PR teams are almost always in conflict. Good leadership knows how to weigh the advice of both because it has a bigger job than staying out of court. It has to also ensure the long term success of the organization and that generally includes retaining as much public good will and trust as it can, especially in the face of a crisis. You can't always do that by listening to lawyers because sometimes good legal advice is bad business advice. The ongoing damage to BSA's reputation is almost fatal and needs to countered. The abuse scandal has paralyzed the organization in a way that it can
    3 points
  10. How about simply 'someone who exemplifies "cheerful service."' Full stop. Why does Vigil always go to people that spend a lot of time in the OA? Some people are too busy helping out to add yet one more activity, OA, to their plate.
    3 points
  11. War looks like leadership. And that's how you win. You mention Mosby. Perfect. Where is our leader? BSA named its reorg ruminations The Churchill Project. What leadership skill did its namesake wield better than any other WWII leader? Words. He communicated, he inspired, he motivated. Where is Mosby? Where is his appeal to the troops to fight the good fight? It has nothing to do with waging war on victims. It's simply about reminding everyone what is good about scouting and why we need to do our best at the unit level to keep it going. On this he has been virtually silent.
    3 points
  12. It had nothing to do with trying to convince you, a den mother, a Scout or anyone else. I don't believe that's what I've been doing or attempted to do here. I wanted to offer a respectful and thoughtful response from my experience. You raised great points in both posts and I wanted to ponder and engage the various elements. I believe you meant it to read well on my end, but I can't say it did. Rather harsh, but I am the outlier here and, at times, that is clear. I was aware of when I started to post and take it for what it is. Happy to take my ball and jax and leave the playground.
    3 points
  13. I respectfully disagree with this. 1. There has been plenty of fanfare about boys reaching Eagle in the past 110 years. That is what has made it one of the single-most recognizable and lauded youth accomplishments, and one that has carried into adulthood for 110 years. 2. Because girls have not had that opportunity for over a century, this occasion is historic, noteworthy, and therefore newsworthy. 3. A struggling organization like the BSA, both in finances and in public perception, would be somewhere between naive and negligent not to take advantage of this as a PR blast.
    3 points
  14. There are also regional breakdowns http://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/commissioner/newsletter/2021_winter/KPI_NatlRegion.pdf
    2 points
  15. I think our education system has failed our society into believing that debates (your word, not mine) has to end with a specific conclusion. Debates or discussions of observations, ideas, and so forth in early history were intended for education, hoping for, but not always expecting, a conclusion. They can just provoke higher level thought. I can certainly say that unconcluded discussions have led to many changes of idealisms including parenting, job, and religion. No winners, losers or conclusions, just growth of ideals. I instructed my kids to formulate their opinions in discussions wit
    2 points
  16. Which is why I try to avoid these kinds of discussions in my life. I don't see that we can ever reach a conclusion on these debates - even amongst Scouters. Myself, I think the message is: it's without question that abuse happened Scouters in the BSA should always do whatever we can to prevent the abuse of youth. When abuse occurs, we should focus on learning what happened and work to learn from those cases so we can prevent it in the future. To me, the relevant question is whether the BSA is safe today. Regardless of whether it was safe in the 1980s and befo
    2 points
  17. The United States Patent and Trademark Office Journeys of Innovation series tells stories of inventors or entrepreneurs who have made a positive difference in the world. This month’s story focuses on the journey of the founder of the Girl Scouts of the USA. Juliette Gordon Low founded the Girl Scouts of the USA and patented the organization’s iconic trefoil badge in 1914. A three-leafed clover design adapted from the Boy Scouts’ similar badge, Low’s trefoil suggested a fundamental equality between girls and boys on the eve of women’s suffrage and continues to signal girls’ invaluable con
    2 points
  18. They thrived in our ranks because BSA didn't want to inform the public about their existence. BSA understood the scope of the problem, but they kept quiet about it. Using a movie metaphor from the 70's, they knew that there was a shark in the water, but they still let the 10 year old boy go out into the water with his rubber raft.
    2 points
  19. BSA should have told the truth. Scouting wasn't as safe as they made it out to be. They knew it wasn't safe. They knew that thousands of boys were being sexually molested. Yet, they kept this important information from the parents. BSA didn't give the parents correct facts so that families could make an informed decision on their participation in scouting.
    2 points
  20. And it seems to me that until we all understand this part we'll never make progress. I remember thinking at times while SM that I had 60 sons in my troop, my son's, and it was an overwhelming responsibility. If I didn't look out for everyone of these kids then some would fall through the cracks because nobody else was looking out for all of them. @ThenNow mentioned that many parents were just looking out for their kids. That hasn't changed. I took all of my scouts on as my responsibility because I chose to. But there's nothing that says anywhere that there needs to be an adult that is looking
    2 points
  21. I got my first dose of the Moderna vaccine last month, with no symptoms other than serious pain in my left arm the next day. Got the second dose a week ago today, and had much milder arm pain last Sunday, but did run about 100.2 most of the day, which was handled with Tylenol. Got up Monday morning feeling fine. Considering that I am working with hundreds of elementary school children every day, most of whom are masked, but a fair number of whom are not, there was no question but that I would get vaccinated as soon as I was able. I have talked with a number of Scouter friends who are i
    2 points
  22. I am not a doctor but I am an engineer and used to dealing with tests and data analysis. I took the flu vaccine every year when I was on active duty because I was required to. I probably caught the flu every 2 or 3 years despite that. When I retired over 10 years ago, I stopped taking the flu vaccine because I'd read how it's created and was appalled -- haven't had the flu since. My clinic asks me about it every year and every year I tell them I'd be happy to take it if someone has a study showing it's more effective now. I intend to take the CV-19 vaccine when offered but there are v
    2 points
  23. To ThenNow, I'd bet there are many similar reasons ... not wanting people to judge their kid when accusing such an upright adult ... so sick that it can't be true ... don't want to be "that" family ... or the family that caused problems for their church, school, community ... or just don't want to be associated with it. ... family dynamics are large and ugly at times. ... And those parents were kids when pregnant women were not really to be seen in public and out-of-wedlock daughters would be shipped away to have their kid. ... Only in 1978 did it become illegal to fire a woman for
    2 points
  24. I stand by what I said based upon my research on this subject matter. In the overwhelming majority of cases, BSA did everything they could legally do AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENTS (emphasis). Were some mistakes made? Yes. Was the system they had in place perfect? There is no such thing as a perfect system. The problem is that it appears to me that this lawsuit, with one case going as far back an circa 1939-1946, is using today's Mandatory Reporting Laws as the legal standard which did not come about until circa 1988/89 nationally.
    2 points
  25. No doubt. If your Cardinal was here, he would be talking about the increased enrollment in Catholic schools during the pandemic, i.e., meeting the education needs of children with a Catholic education (program) Similarly, Mosby needs to find a need (get outdoors with friends) and state how this is met with Scouting (program). My two fruits - one Macoun apple and one Navel orange
    2 points
  26. OK forget about Pope Francis. The Cardinal in my archdiocese hasn't been hiding under a rock. There is plenty for him to talk about that has nothing to do with the abuse scandals.
    2 points
  27. I think you keep misinterpreting what I am saying. I am not advocating putting Mosby on CNN. But plenty of CEOs are able to still get messages across in a controlled setting. I've been in corporations during crises and you can put your CEO in front of an internal lens -- whether that's a camera or in print -- to communicate messages to the troops. Invariably, these messages will be leaked to mainstream press. No hostile questions. It's really not that hard.
    2 points
  28. Embattled organizations that survive crises fight for their lives in the court of public opinion. The fear of making things worse is what is paralyzing the leadership. It's going to paralyze itself into nonexistence. If BSA does not start laying some groundwork to counter all the negative publicity, it won't matter what the bankruptcy judge leaves it with.
    2 points
  29. Zach Galifianakis - Eagle Scout - Hangover Star - Between Two Ferns ...
    2 points
  30. I worked in Washington, DC on two separate gigs. One, for a Member of Congress and the other many years later as Exec. Director of a Policy office. I believe this is precisely on point. The element I see missing is the critical secret weapon in these situations: surrogates. When an individual is in a difficult situation and cannot afford to have anyone officially affiliated with them speak in their defense, they release the carefully chosen surrogates. If well selected, their ability to offer commentary and support is a key leveraging strategy to influence public opinion and bolster the p
    2 points
  31. If a PR war happened, it should be about BSA having a structure to try to prevent re-entry of dangerous adults decades before the public, the teachers, the doctors and the politicians were recognizing the issue.
    2 points
  32. I think that's the best we can hope for here. Share our own views on these topics and in the process be enriched from each other. I've welcomed your comments on this topic - in fact, I had not seen the website you referenced before. I also think that as an abuse victim you bring a different perspective to the discussion here that is very welcome.
    2 points
  33. I would add e) general disgust at the BSA for being "too conservative" (not allowing in gay leaders/scouts for so many years, belief in god requirement, connection to LDS, not allowing girls in for so long, perception of connections to the military, headquartered in conservative Texas, and old fashioned/outdated values). Coming from more liberal circles, this is the perspective. It is so hard now that both "sides" are not happy with the BSA.
    2 points
  34. There's no need. I mean that in the nicest way. 1) People upset at the prospect of THEIR kid having to lose camp or THEIR chartered organization refusing to recharter are simply not going to see why things that happened 3-4 decades ago a) need to be paid for now and b) why the debt is being pay through their kid's suffering. It isn't going to be any comfort to explain that "Well, the corporate entity called Boy Scouts of America is who is on the hook here." All they see is their kid, losing scouting. Sidenote: How much of the catastrophic loss in BSA is due to a) LDS leavin
    2 points
  35. I believe the concern is that it creates an automatic payment system. Based on many interactions with people here and elsewhere, there's an assumption that SOL lookback windows simply mean that 1) Cheats, crooks, and liars will make up stories about events from far enough back (30+ years) that the individuals involve have forgotten and/or dead. 2) That said cheats, crooks, and liars upon filing a suit (or claim) will instantly be 100% believed, unquestioned (or unquestionable since, as noted, all others parties are forgotten and/or dead) and handed a bag full of money. 3) That t
    2 points
  36. EDIT: Misunderstood question. There's no difference between civil and criminal SOL extensions. And extensions to Civil SOLs apply to ALL persons or institutions. New York Child Victim’s Act doesn't just target BSA or the Catholic Church. It covers individuals as well ("any party") https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CVP/214-G
    2 points
  37. The point is that we have honored women firsts for generations. Women who fought to be equals. Rosa Parks. O'Connor. The suffragists, including but not limited to Susan B. Anthony. These scouts should be commended for what they accomplished. Not condemned, mocked, ridiculed, or accused of "grandstanding" or "bragging" (I'll be sure to tell my SM that we end Eagle Courts of Honor since that is now "bragging"). What cheapens Eagle is men who still cling to the idea girls/women are lesser, inferiors who shouldn't be allowed to even try and obtain the Eagle rank. What cheapens Eagle
    2 points
  38. Well done. It was good to see some prominent older adults congratulating them. Now that the "initial class" is recognized, hopefully we can settle into a bit more normal formats, recognizing them as they come, male or female. Personally I still hope that we can reach the position of not segregating them within units, but just have troops of youth intereted in Scouting. It has worked in Cubs, so I do not see a true reason to not have similar patrol based units of coed youth. As long as YP is followed there really should be little reason to not do it, and it would allow even more young wome
    2 points
  39. The best part of Scouting is some of the people you meet. The worst part of Scouting is some of the other people you meet.
    2 points
  40. There are approximately 860 cases pending in which at least one LC is a named defendant. These are locked and loaded if the Chapter 11 protective stay is not extended.
    1 point
  41. Good on ya, mate. The best awards are the ones you didn't know you were working to earn.
    1 point
  42. "IRVING, Texas, Feb. 18, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- Nearly 1,000 young women from across the country are taking their place in history as the first female Eagle Scouts after collectively earning more than 30,000 merit badges and providing an estimated 130,000 hours of community service - even amid a pandemic. The Boy Scouts of America will honor this inaugural class of female Eagle Scouts during a virtual event on February 21st titled 'Be the Change'—a celebration of these young women and their achievements, and a call to action for all young people to continue working to make a positive impact
    1 point
  43. Our Lodge seemed to have a strong camp staff bias for nominations. While folks who were serving in a program like NYLT and are working all year to make that a success often didn't seem to get as much love. Also youth who staffed national events such as NAYLE went largely unrecognized. Being a member of the LEC, an Adult Advisor, a camp staff, etc are not the only things to be considered as evidenced by the information pasted below. The Vigil Honor is a high mark of distinction and recognition reserved for those Arrowmen who, by reason of exceptional service, personal effort, and unse
    1 point
  44. Cynical, Bless your heart. Your self righteousness must be a heavy burden, like a millstone hanging around your neck. We all seem to get a dose. I stand by my original statement.
    1 point
  45. Or if some CO dropped its charter in 1980, it could still be on the hook for abuse that occurred in 1975. One bad-case (I can imagine worse) scenario I can imagine goes as follows: BSA (national) goes into Chapter 7, takes all the councils with it. Between pension liabilities, general secured debt, and the rock-bottom prices that most camp property will fetch when hundreds of camps are all offered at liquidation sales at the same time, the amount available to unsecured creditors (including all the abuse claimants) is $100MM or less. That means $1000 or less to each self-filing abuse
    1 point
  46. Without telling them, there were several reasons why I wanted our troop's boys and parents to know about this recognition: It might inspire a few sisters to "Scout In". It also gives Scouts BSA girls who are also in GS/USA a pulpit to promote the Gold Award. Some of you are negative about that, but I consider it to be a positive. For a number of reasons GS/USA has not tracked the future successes of its top awardees. Sure, lots of us here know about it, but IMHO it does not have the on-the-street recognition that it deserves. Some of our scouts get stalled in their advancemen
    1 point
  47. Welcome to the forums! As St. Ambrose told St. Monica, "When in Rome ..." Ask your troop if their are any insignia dorks among the leadership, and pose the question to them. If nobody in the troop has an opinion, here's mine: Since you're buying loops and #s anyway, match whatever your son's doing. Me personally, I just get whatever is selling for less at the time and slap it together. Don't bother trying to "stay vintage" unless you're also going to stick with a vintage council strip and other patches that you may have worn as a scout that would carry forward when you turn
    1 point
  48. I gave you an upvote for using an appropriate expression on the first Friday of Lent.
    1 point
  49. A good lifeguard should always be ready and willing to demonstrate his knowledge and skills.
    1 point
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