Leaderboard

I'll tell you why we "isolate" ourselves... We have the strongest Troop in our District, and I daresay our Council. First and foremost, this is because of a small dedicated cadre of adults (about eight) who understand the Patrol Method, and mentor our Scouts to keep that as a focal point in our activities. We have 35 total adults registered, with 44 youth currently on the books. Of the 35 adults, again, eight pull most of the weight, about 17 dabble here and there to help out, and 10 contribute nothing, if not less Of the 44 Scouts, about 10 are extremely active in the program, about 26 dabble, and eight contribute nothing and will probably drop out. Side note: notice how those numbers follow the 20-60-20 rule? I learned that some time ago in a military leadership course... in any group, 20% of your people are Sierra Hotel (focus your time on them), 60% are average performers (encourage them and some will respond, but not all), and 20% are low performers (Help them when they ask.. Do not expend effort chasing them or trying to bring them into the 60%. If they do, great... if they don't, let them go.) Here are a few tenets of our Troop adult culture: 1. Adults will be fully trained in their positions. No exceptions. We make adults aware of the training burden and commitment expected before they sign on. 2. Don't get your training done, and you are dropped from the roster. 3. It is not about your kid. You are here for all. The best compliment you can get is, at the end of a camping trip, when your Scout hops in your car, another Scout looks at him and says "I didn't know that was your Dad (or Mom). During our events, try to act in such a way as to receive that compliment. 4. Our Troop pays for adults' food and camping fees for trips. (or at least a portion thereof, when attendance is over the adult leadership requirements) Adults pay for their own activity fees (like whitewater rafting, ziplining, etc.), and their fair share of gas and tolls for the trip. We let our adults know we appreciate their time and sacrifice. 5. We pay for all required training. For example, when you sign up to be an ASM, you must attend IOLS. You pay out of pocket at first, and when you are done, the Troop reimburses you the cost. 6. We pay half for advanced courses. For example, we have our own unit climbing program, so we sent a leader to National Camp School, Climbing section, to get certified, so we can run our own unit program. (Our program is cheaper than local council or commercial costs!!) We sent a leader to NCS for Outdoor Skills (formerly know as Scoutcraft). We sent a leader to do Shooting Sports (now known as Range and Target Activities?) Next year, we hope to send one to Aquatics. 7. A good number of our adults are trained in CPR/AED, Wilderness First Aid, Swimming and Water Rescue, Paddlecraft Safety, and YES!! Chainsaw Safety. We push leaders to get these kinds of courses as a "Force Multiplier". With these skills, we greatly enhance our capability to provide youth the program they want, when they want it. 8. We police each other. Youth Protection is fiercely enforced. Other breaches of GTSS and Scouter Code of Conduct are handled discretely, but firmly. Most infractions are due to ignorance. Ignorance can be cured... 9. Overall, adults need to know that, as @Eagle94-A1 pointed out above, unit leaders "...are the heart and soul of the program. Without volunteers, you cannot have the program..." When you treat them that way, they respond with dedication. There are more facets here, but I'll stop. We "isolate" ourselves because the District and Council live a different set of tenets. And the program they run is, well, below our skill set, to put it politely. In 2020, during the pandemic, when all Scouting shut down, our youth still wanted to do a Summer Camp. So, we made our own, and they had a blast. (And EVERYTHING was within the parameters of our State Governor's and CDC orders/guidelines.) The Scouts absolutely loved it! The only thing we did not have then was shooting sports. Since 2020, our PLC has elected to go to various council camps for Summer Camp. The ones who went in 2020 (who are now the senior Scouts) have been disappointed over the years in what they have experienced in the council-run camps. So, they asked to have another Troop-only Summer Camp this year, and it was a huge success. (By the way, in 2020, we ran the camp with 30 youth, 11 adults, at a cost of $244.01 per head; in 2025, 22 youth and 11 adults, at a cost of $303.40 per head.) [exactly in line with inflation...] We have found that we can run a better quality program, at a cheaper cost, and with much less hassle, than going to district or council events. This includes day, weekend, and weeklong programs...

There's two things here, maybe related, maybe not. As an outsider with few years dealing with BSA (not involved with the settlement at all) I see things more from a corporate and legal lens. I agree with the assessment that doing the settlement fund piecemeal (going after councils, CO's, etc ... ) would have created a vast array of have and have nots. So many guilty parties (councils, units, charter orgs, perps) no longer exist, which would have prevented victims from seeking any restitution. I still struggle with these funded vs hypothesized fund numbers. What I know of nationals resources and debt and the councils local to me is that there really isn't much money out there, especially at the councils whom are mostly operating hand-to-mouth. To the discussion of Scouting America being around in the future; I have no doubt that Scouting America will be here in 100 years. I do think Scouting America will look a lot different, a lot more like how I understand scouting was 100 years ago. I think national is going to have to divest itself of a lot of physical property in order to get out of debt; maybe only Philmont surviving. I think the number of councils is going to shrink down to less than 100 (I think this will happen in the next 10 years). I think the number of council owned properties (camps) is probably going to shrink down to around 50 and start to get run more by professional adult camp staff and less by summer volunteers on a 4 season operational plan (the days of 7-9 weeks of summer camp run by barely paid OA seeking volunteers is coming to an end).

I'd start by referring her to read the rank requirements, pointing out: 30 days (minimum) required to earn Tenderfoot due to the fitness requirement, 4 weeks (minimum) after earning Tenderfoot to earn Second Class (fitness requirement), 4 weeks (minimum) after earning Second Class to earn First Class (fitness requirement). I appreciate the kids enthusiasm, but it is a marathon and not a sprint. To each unit their own, but I wouldn't accept the youth doing videos for rank requirements. If the youth wanted to come to a troop meeting and ask the SPL if there is time for someone to test him on requirement X if time allows, that is at the SPL discretion.

New kid showed up last week. Went camping with us this past weekend. Can't seem to figure out the patrol method - kept coming to the adults for everything. Mom thinks he can earn Eagle by Christmas. Has him submitting videos for all sorts of requirements. In one, he is obviously reading off a cue card. In another, he ties a square knot instead of a sheet bend. I told the acting SM that I'm not comfortable accepting these as an appropriate level of skill to sign off the requirement. He agrees that it is strange. Has anyone encountered this sort of thing? It's an amazing hyper focus on rank advancement over actually being a Scout. I push my son to learn the material so he can advance, but this is something else.

How many CORs are actually active on the district and council level? In my long experience, I only know of two. One was a former SM. The other was already active on the district level, and elected District Chairman when he was "appointed to be the COR. The members-at-large are usually the ones doing the actual work. 1. Pros should not ignore the unit Scouters when they need help. Listen to them as they are the heart and soul of the program. Without volunteers, you cannot have the program to recruit members. They know what works and what doesn't. While some have been Scouters a short time, others have years, even decades, of experience. 2. Pros need listen to your district level Scouters as they tend to have a lot more knowledge, skills, and experience than the pros do, especially in the service area. While Pros can stay 3-5 years in an assignment, in my neck of the wood the average 9 months. One DE left in under 30 days. 3. Do not second guess, over rule, etc the volunteers when they are assigned something to do. Best example is volunteer who was "voluntold" he was running a district camporee with 7 weeks notice because the camporee chief quit (see 4 below). Pro didn't interfere that year and it was a successful camporee. Volunteer agreed to do the following year. The Pros interfered so much it caused major headaches for the volunteer, and the event to go overbudget. Supplies were not ordered, so those supplies had to purchased locally at a higher cost. Camp got triple booked over the objections of the two folks running ITOLS and the camporee. This caused the campwide compass course to be redone hours before opening, and additional supplies not budgeted to deal with the anticipated parking issues and to designate the Cub area from the Scout areas. And I can go on and on about the interference. That volunteer promised to never run another district event ever again. 4. Pros need to remember "a Scout is Courteous." They should not yell, berate, and curse out volunteers. Especially ones who are also business leaders in the community. Not only will folks willing to volunteer dry up, but also FOS dollars will as well. Some long time businesses donors heard about these things, and stopped giving. More later

Oh there are some go getters.... Back in my days of yoooth, my Troop was very active, merit badges were not that important. We went camping and hiking and other stuff, New kid joins, his dad is a navy doctor who would attend meetings in full whites. The kid soon announced that he had done the math, so many months required for each rank, and he would be Eagle by such and such a date. Us senior Scouts looked at each other and realized he might well become the first Eagle in our Troop ! we decided we could NOT let that happen. Merit Badges became more important. We started looking for MBCounselors, shared earning them. The "new" kid was an okay guy. He became the third Eagle, about a year and a half late from his original schedule, but that's okay. Armymutt, talk to the Scout. Unless he has some other issues (ASD? Autism spectrum?), He needs to take charge of his Scout career. Remind the mom that SHE is not the Scout.... sounds like she wants to live the Scout life she missed out on as a yoooth. Make her a ASM WITH TRAINING, then a Commissioner to get her out of your Troop's hair,...

I always wondered why we wouldn't look to either 20-30 year old ex scouts or 55+ year old aging scouters to fill District roles (basically avoiding parents of scout aged kids). In my area, most District roles are filled by unit volunteers, burning them out or having them choose between helping their unit or helping the District.

As a former pro, I can tell you even with professionals leading every troop, the quality will vary. Yes it is a red flag, one that says the council is not supporting the units, at least in my experience with 2 different councils. Districts and councils are there to support the unit, not the other way around. If a unit is in need of help from the district/council, and is constantly being ignored, the unit will start isolating themselves. If unit leaders work to put on events, and do not get the support they need to run the event, get overruled on things, or the event is cancelled last minute despite everything being in place and ready to go, but the "budget surplus" is not being met, then units will start isolating themselves. If a unit attends their council summer camp, and it is an absolute Charley Foxtrot; with the suggestions and recommendations to improve the camp and its program are ignored, then you will have units doing their own thing. The irony in my experience is that the leaders of these units were usually some of the most active, pro council volunteers. In one council I was in, the units in question had former district committee members, Silver Beavers and OA Vigils in them. They were accused of being "Council Kool Aid Drinkers ( I know, Jim Jones used Flavor Aid), because they were at one time so supportive of council. Ditto on the second council I have seen this occur.

Let me start with I think there is unfortunately a lot of leeway going on because so many councils are in life support mode and don't want to risk a whole troop or pack dropping from the rolls. It is the wild west out there because membership numbers are so important right now and the paid scouters seem to want to keep their job more than running a quality program. We have a unit in my district right now that we all know is a paper only unit that the CO is trying to keep alive for some reason. A member of the key 3 was removed from scouting for committing and being convicted of a felony. No one is trained. No program is being provided. We're not even sure if the scouts are real; all we know is that the CO pays for 5 adult, 5 youth memberships and a recharter every year. The unit "meets" out of district. The unit never attends any district or council function. This is a prime unit for charter revocation, completely not running the program or even trying, yet nothing is done.

As long as the troop is using the methods of Scouting and following the "rules" regarding youth protection, guide to advancement etc... I see ultimate leeway. The council and district events are not necessary. Whether or not the troop is actually providing a true scouting program via the methods is a different question altogether.

I'm sure she has her reasons. Maybe the family has encountered some challenges and are searching for meaning. In this case, landing on Scouting seems healthy. It could be the pre-teen equivalent of a middle-aged man deciding he's going to go from his couch to a marathon in less than a year. There are sure to be some missteps in his training, but his goal is still admirable ... It's also possible that you're working with a family of grade-A narcissists who are going to drop into your troop life for a short time and make things miserable for everyone as they try to mow down every obstacle in their perfect little boy's way. 😬

I would be EXTREMELY leery about this. Sometimes that is all it takes. But most of the time it takes that PLUS mentoring. And I have seen cases where folks took the training, thought they knew better, and ignored any mentoring to get them up to speed. Kayn Hourbacker got it at 11. He joined at 10 years old, and did it in exactly 19 months. Then there is this girl at 12. I question how much they really know. I met one Eagle who got it at 13 that I can say knew their stuff. He was also pushed by his Eagle And Explorer Ranger Award dad ( OK I screwed up, I called the dad a Gold award recipient all these years because Ranger ended in 1949. But I recently found out that if you started it before 1949, you got to finish it until 1951.) Here is the deal though, he quit immediately after getting it. No HA trips, jamborees, OA, nothing.

The Buckskin Council sold 350 acre Camp Kootaga in Parkersburg, WV to the Camp Kootaga Foundation. “The Camp Kootaga Foundation is committed to ensuring that this historic camp remains a thriving, year-round haven for outdoor adventure,” Bennon said in the release. “Our mission is to preserve the camp’s rich Scouting legacy, providing a place where young people can develop leadership, character, and a deep appreciation for the outdoors.” https://www.newsandsentinel.com/news/community-news/2025/08/local-nonprofit-completes-purchase-of-camp-kootaga/

Even at a full sprint, joining to Eagle takes 19 months: 30 days for Tenderfoot physical fitness requirements (all Scout and Tenderfoot requirements could be done in this period by a precocious Scout) Four weeks for Second Class physical fitness requirements (cumulative now 2 months) Four weeks for First Class physical fitness requirements (cumulative 3 months) Four Months as First Class to Star (cumulative 7 months) Six Months as Star to Life (cumulative 13 months) Six months as Life to Eagle (cumulative 19 months) I have never seen it done that quickly. The fastest I have seen it happen is a young lady who, already having her Venturing Summit Award, Congressional Award Gold Medal, and GS Silver Award, joined a Troop at 16 years old (under the waiver), and completed in 20 months to become one of the Inaugural Class of female Eagle Scouts. And, other than school work, that is all she focused on. (She dropped out of GS, and said the Gold Award was not worth it for her...) Show Mom the math...

Never seen or heard of this before. I would ask her where she got the idea for recording videos of him performing tasks and see where the leads.

My feelings are hurt but it has nothing to do with this thread ...

Aug, 2025 Maine Outdoor School for All, administered by the University of Maine Cooperative Extension (UMCE), is launching this fall thanks to $450,000 secured from private foundations. The Maine Outdoor School for All is a coalition of the UMaine Extension’s 4-H Learning Centers, the Chewonki Foundation, the Ecology School and Schoodic Institute. I found no Scouting groups mentioned. UMCE will give grants to certified outdoor learning centers to provide students in grades four through eight an immersive, three-day, two-night outdoor educational experiences." While at the certified outdoor learning centers, students and their teachers will participate in hands-on discovery aligned with state learning results. The core curriculum will help students develop in-demand STEM, leadership, communication and collaboration skills, while fostering confidence, connection to the state’s outdoor heritage and a commitment to environmental stewardship. About one-fifth of Maine public school students already participate in overnight programming through the organizations that make up the Maine Outdoor School for All coalition. At current funding levels, UMaine Extension expects the program will serve 1,000 additional students in 2025-26, at no cost to their school districts. Thousands of Maine students will participate in overnight outdoor educational experiences in the coming school year, at no cost to their districts, according to the University of Maine. “Current funding formulas for public education simply do not allow schools that would most benefit from this type of experience to pay for it out of their normal operating budgets, especially schools in rural, low-income or remote parts of the state. And yet, these very students are often the ones we are depending on to lead our fishing, farming and forest industries in the future, and hope they develop an interest in the sustainable resource management so crucial to Maine's economy,” said the Chewonki Foundation’s Nancy Kennedy. With the establishment of the program in state statute, initial private funding and a campaign to raise an additional $1 million this year, Maine has become one of just four states committed to providing outdoor learning opportunities for all public school students, regardless of the socioeconomic status of their family or their district. Oregon, Washington and Minnesota have Outdoor School for All programs funded by lottery proceeds and appropriations. When fully funded at $6 million annually, the program will be accessible to all students in grades four through eight in the state. Extension will certify outdoor education programs across the state and issue grant funding for these programs to partner with school administrative units and provide immersive outdoor education. “There is no better classroom than the Maine outdoors,” said Executive Director of UMaine Extension 4-H Centers Ryder Scott, in an Aug. 26 news release. “Research has reinforced that outdoor learning benefits students’ academic performance and their physical and social-emotional wellbeing. These aren’t just field trips — they are transformational experiences that engage Maine students in exciting STEM learning and prepare them for future success in their studies and careers.” This is consistent with the goals and strategies of the recently released 10-Year Maine Outdoor Recreation Economy Roadmap, which proposes expanding pipelines to rewarding careers in the outdoor industry through “increasing access to outdoor experiences” and "integrating outdoor education and career pathways in K-12 curricula.” “Our outdoor school experiences make a meaningful difference in the academic and social-emotional learning for our students," said Woodstock Elementary Principal Beth Clarke about her students’ immersive learning at the UMaine 4-H Learning Center in western Maine. “Whether observing the life cycle of plants, understanding ecosystems or learning leadership skills, Outdoor School at Bryant Pond deepens our students' understanding of the world and helps them grow into successful young adults." “Extension is thrilled to play a key leadership role in the Outdoor School program,” said UMaine Extension Dean Hannah Carter. “This program will create pathways for students to attend Maine's public universities and help build a labor force skilled in resource management, conservation, outdoor recreation, agriculture and forestry.” “Outdoor immersive education allows all its participants the opportunity to grow academically and socially. It allows students to practice healthy risk taking, and it shows them a world beyond cell phones and social media,” said 2025 Maine Teacher of the Year Becky Hallowell, who incorporates outdoor teaching and learning into her fourth grade at Wiscasset Elementary School. “All our Maine students deserve to have this opportunity.” “Research shows the critical years around middle school are a key window for physical, social and mental health development and the data shows that Maine youth are facing more mental health challenges than ever before. These middle school years are when kids start thinking about possible career pathways and their beliefs about the place they call home,” said Maine Environmental Education Association Executive Director Olivia Griset. “When our youth get to have positive community-based learning experiences they gain a greater sense of place and connection to this state, making it more likely they will want to stay here to pursue careers, contribute to the Maine economy, raise their families, and participate in their local communities.” “This new Outdoor School program creates a framework for improved access to robust outdoor learning programs for students in our poorer and more rural areas,” said Cobscook Institute Co-Executive Director Shaun Haskins. “Making this a statewide initiative, rather than something that individual schools or school districts must manage to implement on their own, reduces barriers and builds opportunity for all of our youth to reap the benefits of these amazing programs.” “This is a win for Maine students,” said Ecology School President Drew Dumsch. “We know from decades of experience that outdoor education is a powerful spark that keeps kids engaged in hands-on learning, STEM-related studies and, most importantly, gives them a window into Maine’s distinct landscape and natural heritage — from working forests and tidal estuaries to agriculture, conservation and fisheries. Now we must secure full and ongoing funding so all of our kids can benefit.” More at Sources: https://www.penbaypilot.com/article/maine-pilot-outdoor-school-all-year-students-across-state/261863 https://umaine.edu/news/blog/2025/08/25/maine-to-pilot-outdoor-school-for-all/

“Scouts will now have the chance to see firsthand how flexography touches their daily lives……from chips and snack bags to labels on their condiment and vitamin bottles. What better way to learn valuable skills that can lead to rewarding careers,” said Bettylyn Krafft, Executive Director of the Phoenix Challenge Foundation. Source: https://whattheythink.com/news/127424-phoenix-challenge-foundation-celebrates-scouts-americaflexo-printing-added-graphic-arts-merit-badge/

I may have proposed the question wrong. If the units are complaining about lack of district support, yet all of the district committee members are from the units. In other words, they are complaining about the lack of support that is of their own doing. Thanks for the tips. That's all well understood. I am a volunteer, and I also have decades of organizational management experience in a business context. I see the problem, but I don't have any control over fixing it. All I can do is ask them to show-up.

I don't think councils care about GTSS. In my experience it's all about not having a near miss or reportable YPT incident. Units can basically do whatever they want as long as no abuse happens. I got pulled into some non-sense with a unit last year where they were repeatedly violating the GTSS. Event with parents and leaders asking me for help and guidance the key leaders of the unit wouldn't take any suggestions. I escalated the issue to council because I could see the situation spiraling out of control. Nothing was done, I started getting the cold shoulder at district and council level and meetings were always "we'll set that up later". Then a serious incident that pulled national in happened; that's the only point that anyone from district or council cared about GTSS. It takes a professional scouters job being on the line to bring GTSS compliance.

Don't forget about that balloon type of payment liability that matures. As I recall it depends on the performance of the pension assets, and thankfully the stock market is at record highs, but it may not always be so. Agreed on your other points. I question whether Scouting will ever be as popular as in the 1980s, just as we will never go back to having three television networks plus PBS. Be Prepared

We should just start selling Eagle scout ranks. Two birds, one stone. We raise a lot of money and take the kids who only care about a patch (especially their parents) out of the program. Heck, for enough money, we can throw a kid in a river, setup your kid in a harness system, have him "save" the other kid and he could earn the heroism award. Hopefully the family can be redirected, otherwise, these are the worst parent(s) to have in the program.

Certain claimants would have been better off if the plan failed. Even assuming National was maxed out (I think there is an argument that the HA base debts were questionable), they could have sued their council, CO and various individuals. Some CO and councils would have had significant assets to take, others almost nothing. So, while some would be better off, others would have been much worse off. The other source is from reinsurers. That was/is expected to provide the backstop if money is out.. but we will see if it works. Im not surprised the settlement is being used up faster than planned, but that could slow over time. BSA financial health is also questionable. Debt is still high, membership is now under their business plan and I'm not sure their raised the capital they thought. I wouldn't be surprised if they are back in bankruptcy in a few years.

The Aims & Methods has a lot to do with it, but then what do you do when the SM insists its a youth led troop when its obviously not. Or, their idea of the Patrol Method is to mix up patrols (which is clearly discouraged in the troop leadership guides). The reason for refusing NYLT is the scouts might learn how BSA wants troops to function, not how the SM thinks it should work.

If you guys no longer have camps I bet you get absorbed by Western LA. For such a state with such a huge population the CA councils are crazy small.

The own kid factor is a big one. I hold my kids to a higher standard to avoid anyone questioning the legitimacy of their accomplishments. Pointing out the own kid standard to this lady might make her tuck tail and run to a different troop.

The SM and I talked yesterday about our philosophy with the program. We agree that it's not Cub Scouts and mastery is the standard. Let's face it, we aren't talking about things that are all that difficult, and the expectation is that if you are going to be in the club, then you need to actually fulfill your obligations to the club. I won't sign off on my own son's stuff without him having a level of mastery that I feel is acceptable. Some things are pretty simple - put the flag up once and I'm satisfied that you know how to do it. When it comes to first aid or safety items, I want to make sure the Scout is confident and competent at the tasks required for his/her rank level.

My guess is it’s the parent driving this and the scout is just trying to make them happy. I had a parent kind of like this. Long story short is the council made him a lone scout so he’d quit bothering scoutmasters. Technically the scout was the lone scout but he was just a bystander.

It should be noted that the term "earned" with the noted young person is suspect, and the Eagle even more so. Suffice it to say, the "accomplishment" is seriously tarnished by numerous facts that were overlooked for "legal" reasons. The real fact is that the entire fiasco should not have been allowed, but a "legal cloud" hung threateningly until it played out and he, and the lawyer father disappeared from the local scene. It is not a local highlight for the majority, yet he is/was not the real problem, just the instrument, so to speak.

Earlier this month the judge ordered both sides to mandatory mediation for 90 days. Retired judge Barbara M.J. Lynn was selected as the mediator. Not sure if anything substantive came out of the hearing yesterday due to the ongoing mediation.

Here's an examination of the case regarding Israeli flags: False claims about burning Israeli flags, based on ToI report, reach Congress The underlying case involves someone who was wearing an Israeli flag being briefly choked when someone tanked on the flag from behind. The case was not about flag burning or damaging a flag; it was about whether the physical assault on a person might be construed as discrimination based in part on the flag used as part of the assault.

The public schools across the country have banned cellphones unless medically necessary, like a glucose monitor.

Had a good conversation with our COR last nite. Helps he is also a former SM and knows all the challenges I face in that role. We are on the verge of folding. He know it, our adults know it, and the Scouts may know it. We need one more Scout in order to recharter, and we are going full throttle on recruiting. Our DE says they can help us get into the schools. I hope that is true and he follows through, but the council's record on that is poor. But as Gandalf the White said, " There is always hope, a fool's hope." We will be doing our annual fundraiser as if we will be rechartering. Goal is to raise enough money to pay national and council fees, and summer camp. We will continue Scouting on. Back up plan is if the troop does not recharter, pay for everyone's, both adults and youth, registration and council fees, pay for summer camp, and save the rest to restart the troop at a later date. I am sticking around as SM until December 2026. I have idea on someone to replace me, but want to get them up to speed.

The heat and humidity have past hereabouts. A lot of bug juice was consumed. Thank you for your patience and understanding. Topic unlocked. ~RS @Eagle1993

Ventura County Council now has NO camps; the last one is in escrow. So, the units now have to find other resources, often farther away, raising the expenses to get there. We technically still have some land above our lost Camp Three Falls, but it is remote and has no upkeep of the few access roads. Still, perhaps we can find a way to use it, perhaps with water trailers and so on. Will see. Found it a bit ironic that the camp now in escrow was sold to a cemetery corporation. At least they are not going to build houses.

Well when we look at family packs in my district we have a couple of hold out "boy only" packs but they are down to a handful of scouts and when those kids crossover the packs are dead; everyone else is a coed family pack now.

That is pretty much what happened in the UK when their program went coed. Sure you could have all male, all female, and coed troops. But over time the all the single gender units died out any only all female exist today. Or so I am told.