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Council Relations

Discuss issues relating to Scout Councils, districts and working with professionals

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  1. 2 Councils to Merge

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  2. 30 Day Goals

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    • Agreed.  That will be the plantiff's argument. I'm betting the defense would respond ... that "BSA KNEW" but believed they were managing the same issues other organizations that served youth.  Schools, YMCAs, churches, youth ministries, etc.  The BSA KNEW can be offset by the standard of care of the time.   ... So, did they view themselves as dealing uniquely with evil ugliness that many organizations didn't have.  If viewing themselves like many other organizations, than the IVF becomes a higher level of care than other organizations.  ... I've already argued that ...  my additional point is ... "BSA KNEW" that is absolutely a debateable point.  Sure, but did they see themselves as having more risk than any other youth serving group? Similar arguement to the past ... Consider today ... with today's laws ... with broad mandatory reporting ... with enlightened science ... with enlightened understanding of abuse ... Now, use Google and search "school teacher chaged" ... limit it to the last month ... Google gives you 20 pages of incidents covered in the last month ... Western Colorado Lockport, IL Greenbay, WI Shoreham, NY Atascocita, TX  Spokane, WA Brandon, FL Providence, Utah;  many, many, many more ...  Assume 3 unique incidents per page (it's a guess) ... multiple by 20 google pages ... muiltiply by 12 months ... multiply by 60 years (similar to BSA''s case spread)  ... That's 43,200 ...  under laws ... with mandatoring reporting ... and enlightened understanding ... even today ... schools have not been able to stop on-going abuse.  Now consider most victims don't talk about it until years later ...  Now consider offenders often have multiple victims ...  That 43,200 becomes hundreds of thousands or millions.   And, we're not even talking about the 17,000 cases found by AP in the last four years thru high school sports programs  ... many of them involving penetration and coaches minimizing as inappropriate touching  ... https://www.mprnews.org/story/2017/05/08/sex-assaults-in-high-school-sports-minimized-as-hazing ... or the Larry Nassars or the Olympic coaches or the college doctors or the ...  I'm not trying to lessen the ugly evil.  I'm asserting "BSA KNEW" is a point that can be argued. 
    • ... only providing BOLD to show my main points ...  not raising my voice ... I often skim documents looking for key points ... it helps ... when something peaks my interest, I'll read the surrounding material ... I'm familiar that we have several lawyers posting in this thread.  I'm not a lawyer but I am posting as it doesn't seem we are getting valid legal advice representing BSA's best interest.   Yes ... we want ... how much and when .... but there is no such thing ...  there is no fixed price tag or fixed date.  ... depending how motions, arguments, cases, negotations, trials, etc ... this could be survivable or devastating.   The HOW MUCH is not a calculation from a set of facts.  It's the result of a legal process.  The WHEN is when the legal process is done. This legal process that will be fought for months and years (this or related cases) with motions and findings.   I would not be surprised if one or more judges spend the rest of their career overseeing these specific cases. I asserted it because we keep hearing BSA's delaying, BSA should just hand over; etc.  ... yep ... we all want that ... it makes things clean and easy.  ... I want it too.   MY POINT IS --> It's not good legal advice.  #64 asks for the material that would be provided at trial.  Disclosure motions are a huge part before any trial and can go on for a long time.  I seriously asked ..  #64 refers to a "trial"?  Is the trial scheduled?  What is the date?  Is BSA in pre-trial discovery process?  What are the deadlines for witness lists?  Submitting evidence ?  etc.  ... Or are we in mediation to find a way out of the bankruptcy?   As for the reference to providing why/how BSA will defend Summit as reserved (or other asserts for that matter ...  it's asking for BSA"s future game plan ... I'd want to delay too until absolutely required or it's in my best interest. I provided the Advocate link because it confirms my thoughts ... no good lawyer would automatically hand over details automatically.  Am I legally required at this moment?  All of it or some?  Does it help or hurt his client?  In BSA'san his client preserve funds to continue operating?   From the outside, we all want the final answer ... how much and when ... but a fixed price is a myth .   Like Toby Ziegler's lawyer pointed out ... it's not in the clients interest to go out in a blaze of glory providing opposing lawyers everything they want (evidence, strategy, arguments, etc ...)     It can help and it can definitely hurt too.   This will be long and drawn out.  The more I watch ... These cases has years to go.    
    • I’m not a lawyer either. But, I believe CynicalScouter holds title to esquire. He and other attorneys have provided some great insight into this case. Are you sure that you have read all the threads related to this case? 100 million has been wasted thus far and most of this could have been hashed out while waiting for Nov.16.  With litigation looming, BSA thought they could enter bankruptcy and at worst have 20,000 victims. Well, that is no longer the case.  None of us here  can determine the fate of this case. Some will determine the future of their local Scouting whatever that may look like. I have been paying attention. Bankruptcy is only about math. It cares not the least for our feelings. There are only two questions: how much? And when?    
    • 64. In an effort to streamline the Restricted Property Action, the TCC has made repeated requests that the Boy Scouts inform it whether it intends to offer evidence at trial to meet its double burdens of proof or if it intends to attempt to convince the Court that Judge Sontchi’s opinions should not be followed. If the former, the TCC has requested the prompt production of the evidence that the Boy Scouts will rely on at trial to meet its burdens of proof. If the latter, the matter may be disposed of by summary judgment. To date, the Boy Scouts has refused to do either.   I'm a West Wing fan.  A favorite episode is when Toby Ziegler has confessed to revealing a national secret.  Toby wants to tell everything to the white house attorney and FBI.  Toby's lawyer finally shows up and points out that confessing your soul may feel really good, but it's an incredibly stupid thing to do.  Toby finally follows her advice.   #64 refers to a "trial"?  Is the trial scheduled?  Is BSA in pre-trial discovery process?  Or are we in mediation to find a way out of the bankruptcy?   Obviously, I'm not a lawyer, but trials have painfully detailed rules for disclosure ... expert witnesses, research, reports, etc. ... effectively revealing a trial strategy Until that process starts, BSA is in a negotaiton process with creditors ... aka mediation ... subject to similar PROs and CONS listed here.                https://www.advocatemagazine.com/article/2019-august/sharing-information-at-mediation The article is not a perfect match ... but it does reflect it's not good legal advice to give the opposite party all your legal plans before you are required to do that.  I'd like to see all information and all the plans of what will be introduced at a trial, but that may not be good legal advice.       
    • Technically that is not an official adventure, but rather a "preview adventure" though I find that nomenclature, like that particular adventure itself, superfluous and irrelevant to Scouting. Unlike the Protect Yourself Rules adventure, which I strongly feel needs to become a required adventure at all levels immediately. 
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