Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness. Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, waiting for National to make a decision.

Time for some Cheerful.

There are two underlying scenarios. The first is they knew they had the vote before hand. The second is they really didn't know the vote. Given the first, this is just a way for the shock to be accepted with the minimum fallout. Some people are upset to the point of making rash decsions. Given the second scenario, this is what they said it is, namely they want to ask more questions. So, I guess it makes sense.

I just hope they ask questions of those that work with the scouts.

What do you expect when you put morality up to a vote...

I am a show me kinda guy.....


So I would like to see a link or source for the statistic of 70% of councils favor it.

I, for one am relieved. You all can bicker all you want. Now I can turn my focus back on to working with my new scouts and getting them assimilated into the Troop. (We are doubling in size in two weeks!) All parents, including my new young scout's two moms, will get engaged and involved. We (the boys) will plan our campouts and get ready for summer camp.

I am appreciative that National decided that they need to hear and listen to the voices of those INSIDE the program at least as much, if not more as those outside the program.

1.4 million names on an online petition don't carry any weight with me. 1.4 million names of people who have youth in the program or youth who have been turned away from the program (notice I said youth, not adults) carry a lot of weight. Those are the people with a stake in this, not political activists with an agenda who have simply targeted an organization because they are large and visible. In our neck of the woods we are highly suspect of any adult who stomps their feet and demands to be in leadership. There are many ways we can support our sons - not everyone will be a registered leader.

So, fight away. But it won't be with me. I am content to wait.

Mom...your gonna need to post a link to your stats.


I signed that petition so I can say with absolute certainty that One Scouter with a boy and soon girl in the program voted for allowing gay and lesbian Adults be leaders.

I am appreciative that National decided that they need to hear and listen to the voices of those INSIDE the program at least as much, if not more as those outside the program. 1.4 million names on an online petition don't carry any weight with me. 1.4 million names of people who have youth in the program or youth who have been turned away from the program (notice I said youth, not adults) carry a lot of weight.

I've been a member of the Boy Scouts since 2005. Earned my Eagle in 2011. I'm a Volunteer in the Troop I grew up in, I'm a Merit Badge Counselor, and I work with the Council National Eagle Scout Association. I'm one of the 1.4 who signed that online petition that doesn't carry any weight with you. Can you explain to me how I can possibly carry any more weight with you? (I'm 19, so I can't have a son in the program yet.)

Yours in Scouting,

What stats might that be, Basementdweller? You mean the 1.4 million and where those votes came from? They came from Change.org - that is who produced the petitions that were hand carried with much fanfare to National. It has been all over the news. And anyone can vote at Change.org - from anywhere in the world. There is no stat I need to post a link for.

I take nothing away from your signature. YOUR voice should be heard in the mix. You have an investment in the program.

For the record, I have the exact same issue with any petitions that may have come from any of the big religious organizations. They don't mean squat to me.

I would love to see EVERY registered adult and the responsible adult for EVERY registered youth sent a questionaire. There is likely already a record somewhere of just how many people have actually been removed and those who have applied and been turned away. They should be sent one. Plus, anyone else willing to fill out an application on behalf of their openly gay son needs to be heard from. And then ask the organizations that actually extend the charters -not their national organizations but the ones that really sign the charters. And that is it. Those are the people with a stake in this. Those are the voices I am interested in hearing from.

I'm not afraid of that. Are you?

They don't need to ask every Scouter or parent. They only need to ask about 1500. Do a scientifically valid survey of the local unit volunteers and another of the parents. However, are we all going to be preapred to accept the survey results, whatever kind they might do?

PS: If my math is off, Stats was a long time ago.

Did you hire them? If not, they you probably can't fire them.

I think DeanRx says it very well, except that in his last sentence, I wouldn't say I am "disgusted", just very disappointed. I have gotten used to the BSA not handling difficult issues very well, but it did seem like they were moving in the right direction on this one. I still don't get why they would put that statement up on Scouting.org, linked from the front page, if this were not a done deal.

As for petitions and surveys, I have not participated in any on this subject. I guess I should decide which is the right way to make my opinions known to National, and do it.

It also baffles me that anyone could read the opinions expressed in this forum, many of which favor the change, and still conclude that the impetus for this change is some "outside" group or groups. The people in this forum who favor the change are all active Scouters, with one exception that I am aware of. Additionally, as far as I know, not that it should matter but for whatever anyone thinks it's worth, none of the people actively posting in this forum are gay, or at least nobody has identified themselves as such. (There was one who did, but he has not posted for a number of years.) We're just Scouters who disagree with National's policy and think local option would be in the best interest of the organization, and ultimately in the best interests of the Scouts.

I remember someone posting about a year or so back.. I believe he was a youth, and did admit he was still in scouting, just not coming out.. "You know, the closeted homosexual, that we are suppose to accept, because they are not openly gay".. Some of our conservative scouters called him every name in the book, and acted like he was lower then pond scum.. Yet they say things like "Truely we respect them, just not near us".. I didn't blame him for not returning to the forum. It was not this forum's finest moment..

Unfortunately we are in a no win situation. If we change the policy, I feel we will lose at least 20 % of our members, if not more. This is based upon the group of councils asking for time to study the question and get input from the members and parents, or as they put it, "the stakeholders." Also don't forget, those pushing for the change will not be happy with local options as "It's a good first step" as one gentleman put it.

And if we keep the current policy, we become a cultural paraiah.

I would not want to be in charge of security at whatever site is chosen for that national meeting. The protestors outside and the media obession is going to make it into a total freak show.

I have about had it with BSA's national leadership. I am seriously considering whether I can remain a member of this organization. I have been a scouter for 15 years, pack committee, Cubmaster, troop Committee Chair and for the last 8 years I have been an assistant scoutmaster. I have been crew advisor on 5 high adventure treks. The scouts that joined when my son aged out have just aged out themselves. Most earned Eagle. I have continued in scouting for the boys but I am increasingly uncomfortable with the out of date membership policy. At work I have had to be increasingly cautious about with whom I discuss my involvement in scouting. Eagle92 said it best, we are becoming a "Cultural pariah." Some would say we already are.

I guess I will hold on to May but if BSA does not change the policy I will fulfill whatever commitments I have to our troop and then leave. I am tired of explaining my continued membership to my friends, my co-workers and--most importantly--my wife.

Funny, I used to be active in a political party, was even a Precinct Captain for a while. Every year they sent me a survey on various national issues. The last question was of course, how much money can you donate... Maybe BSA ought to adopt that. Hey, we have FOS coming up! Maybe...

This delay is really the worst of everything. At this point, I think Irving needs to find some way to declare the moral equivalent of bankruptcy, find a way to distribute the character and morality aspects of the program to a bunch of other people. The whole cause of this imbroglio is National setting themselves up as a moral arbiter. To be perfectly blunt, they aren't good enough at it. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with their G-G-G positions, they've done a terrible job of explaining their decisions, and simiply allowed the program to become a lighting rod for political pressure from all sides. They did the most foolish thing possible, they centralized authority and then weren't prepared for the inevitable power struggle that comes when you do that.