Troop finances

[MichelleP]

Whew, it has been a LONG time since I've visited this forum! Gained some experience since then, but still have lots of questions; I guess that's true with life in general. =) I hope this is the appropriate forum, I couldn't find anything more geared toward committee operation/finances.

 

The last two years, our Troop has been going through some major transitions in just about every area. We are really moving into a good place now, and we have an AMAZING Scoutmaster who I feel really blessed to have as a positive influence in my kids' life. We are still tweaking our bylaws, and this subject has come up in the last couple weeks so I wanted to pick some brains here.

 

We've really upped our program to include at least one campout per month. Our Scoutmaster has been going on every campout, driving scouts without gas reimbursement, and paying what is currently our standard half-price fee for adults. Understandably, his financial resources are about tapped! What is the general practice for covering costs for a Scoutmaster? Annual registration fees, cost of facilities on campouts, cost of food, cost of gas, training fees? Are the rules for summer camp the same as weekend campouts? What about Assistant Scoutmasters? Other adults attending campouts?

 

I brought this up casually with a couple committee members and they were split, one thought the Troop should pay for some of it, the other thought that as a volunteer they shouldn't be reimbursed. I know there isn't any one right answer, however I've been searching the internet for what other Troops do and am having difficulty finding any answers. I'd sure appreciate some advice, and something I can go to our committee with to say, "Look, here is what other troops are doing."

 

Thanks!

~Michelle

[John-in-KC]

In my Troop, we paid all our fees and costs ourselves.

 

That said, volunteer mileage can be tax deductible. Talk with a local accountant for details. (Disclaimer: I am not a CPA. My Dad was, but he now has a "retired" license (which basically means an honorary license).

[BrentAllen]

In our Troop, all costs for trips are spread among the participants. Gas for vehicles is figured into the cost. The church has two 14-passenger vans/buses we use, which really helps keep costs low. If adults have to drive, they are reimbursed at .20/mile. If someone tows the trailer, they are reimbursed at .40/mile. Sons traveling in their parent's vehicle aren't charged for gas. Adults pay their part of other costs on trips - campsite fees, food, etc.

 

The Troop picks up BSA registration fees for adults. Adults do currently pay for any training classes they attend. I hope we can get to a point in the next year or two where the Troop will pay at least part of training fees.

 

For Summer Camp, we usually are allowed a couple of adults to attend for free. There is a reduced charge for the others. We add up the fees for the adults and divide the total by the number of adults attending.

[kbandit]

In our troop as leaders we pay what it costs the scouts with the exception of summer camp where there is a discount for adults. We (adults) like to eat good. Love dutch oven meals. We do tack on $1.00/per person/campout for things like propane and etc. that gets used. Have in the past given gas money out of that to the only person that had a big enough pick up for the campout as we knew they were having a hard time absorbing the fuel cost. It all depends on your unit and what they have the funds for.

 

Hubby is SM for our troop. We eat alot of gas him diving pick up and me a van. It's for the boys but if we needed to have some help with expenses involved I think our committee would help.

 

I would advise you look at the 1 year cost of covering your SM on everything and see what that adds up to. You will be able to get a pretty good idea from that how much funding will be involved.

 

Hubby and I don't have alot of money but we feel with what we do it is money well spent. My vacations every year are at scout camp. LOL and I'm ok with that. I get to see scouts do things some parents will never see.

[Beavah]

Yah, shepo1, welcome back! Glad to hear things are goin' well.

 

You'll find troops are all over the map on this.

 

In some, the adults pay their own way and then quite a bit more to boot.

 

In some, most of the adults pay their own way and then quite a bit more, but some (college-aged ASMs still in school, older fellows on fixed incomes) are supported in their fees in whole or in part, much like scholarships.

 

I think many if not most troops pay for gas for regular leaders in some way. Just seems fair.

 

Many troops pay for adult training and registration.

 

Some camps and outfitters give discounts to adult leaders, or "comp" one free adult for every 10 youth.

 

A few troops just pay adult leader costs in toto, eh? They feel that the amount of time the adult leaders are giving is their "fair share" contribution to the program so they shouldn't also have to fork over $. Those $ should come from the parents who aren't spending a full 30-day month in the field with the lads every year. (of course some of those adult leaders then in turn make donations to the troop, but that often feels better than having to pay out of pocket. )

 

Here's what I'd say.

 

I think if yeh have good adult leaders like this SM, the role of the committee is to support him and make him more willing, not less, to spend his time with kids where he's doing good. So I think to properly serve the program, yeh do whatever is needed to keep the SM and ASMs supported and happy. If that means payin' gas or camp fees, that's goin' to be what? 25 cents an hour for the SM's time? If that means giving the fellow an REI gift certificate for wear and tear on personal gear every year, so be it. If that means giving him a big shiny new plaque every year to show his boss or an all-expense-paid night on the town for SM and Mrs. SM to keep the home front sound, so be it.

 

All of those are really cheap investments that yield big dividends for the program.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eagle92]

Every unit is different based upon their financial status. I've been involved with a unit that covered registration, most trips (special trips like HA and ship overniters being excluded), and paid gas reinbursement for th person towing the trailer. BUT they were financially secure, doing 1 great fundraiser a year (setting up a concession stand and doign cleanup at a local fair).

 

Another unit I was with it was every leader for themself. the unit was being "restarted" and did not have the finances to help.

 

My current pack pays my registration, basic training fee if applicable, and ticket to the district awards banquet. But campouts and otehr activities I am on my own.

[eisely]

Beavah's basic point is well taken. If subsidizing the expenses of the adult leaders facilitates a better program then what is wrong with that?

 

Adult volunteers should not be paid for their time as that would raise a lot of legal and tax issues for the unit, the CO, and the individual.

 

Units should reimburse for expenses, and there are a lot of ways to go about this. Our troop pays basic registration fees for SM and ASM. Since the troop gets a certain number of free passes for summer camp adult participants, the costs of extras above the free pass allocation are absorbed by the troop.

 

Most outings are self supporting and should be self supporting. Adult drivers should either get their actual gas costs reimbursed or a flat allowance coming out of the budget for the outing. For frequent weekend outings, a simple allowance is much easier to deal with.

 

Our troop reimburses fees paid for training offered at the council and district level, but does not reimburse for meals or transportation costs to get to those events.

 

Some units actually dole out a uniform allowance, although our troop does not do so. Note that individual costs for uniforms are fully deductible for income tax purposes. Any allowance paid by the unit for uniforms should be offset against those costs.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with subsidizing SM expenses to ease the SM's burden and spread the costs to other families in the troop. How far you go and how you go about it is up to the unit.

[Stosh]

In my present troop all expenses are picked up for the SM and 1 ASM on every event. All adult leaders have their training paid for 100%.

 

Costs for any activity are calculated at X number of boys plus X number of leaders divided by number of boys. No parent has ever questioned the policy. If there is any shortfall due to unforeseen circumstances, the troop picks up the cost.

 

According to my CC, the SM and ASM's donate their fair share of the event in time and effort for the boys and the financial considerations are the responsibility of the boys and troop (if necessary).

 

Just recently my newest ASM was able to pick up his basic training at summer camp at no cost and this past summer/fall the troop picked up the cost of his WB training.

 

It would sound like maybe we are an exception to how the other troops do it.

 

I did not submit any cost to the troop for Jambo because it was not a troop activity, but they offered to pay for some of it because I had half the troop attending the Jambo. I didn't think it was necessary, and it was my call.

 

Stosh

[hotdesk]

The troop that I have been part of pays for the adult cost of trip fees, reimburses mileage at the IRS business rate, and pays for re-registration each year.

[ScoutNut]

Basically it comes down to what your Troop can afford.

 

If your Troop can afford to subsidize dome of the volunteers costs that would be a great way to thank them for their time (and money!).

 

For camping trip costs, I would include the cost of transportation (gas), and the adult food costs in with the overall trip expenses, and then divvy them up to everyone.

[Oak Tree]

I agree that troops are all over the place on this, and there is no "right" answer, nor is there something a troop "should" do, but different styles will work for different troops.

 

What we do:

Annual registration fees - troop covers these for adults

cost of facilities on campouts - youth and adults each pay their share

cost of food - adults pay for their food

cost of gas - this gets split among the Scouts

training fees - covered by the troop

Are the rules for summer camp the same as weekend campouts? - the camp itself offers a couple of free adults and the rest pay a discounted fee, about equal to the cost of food for the week. We have varied on whether we want to pay for the adults' summer camp fees.

What about Assistant Scoutmasters? Other adults attending campouts? - all treated the same on weekend campouts. Sometimes summer camp will vary.

[shortridge]

Adult volunteers should not be paid for their time as that would raise a lot of legal and tax issues for the unit, the CO, and the individual.

 

Why?

 

Isn't this how Scoutreach works?

 

The CO can certainly elect to pay its leaders as part of its program.

[IM_Kathy]

my son's troop does a % split between boys and troop with fundraising. From the money that goes to the troop it covers equipment replacement and for helping with the adults.

 

They pay registration for adults that are active as SM, ASM, or Committee Members. For monthly troop campouts the boys fee includes the $ needed for campground fees, patrol food, and adult food budget. As for gas money they do pay the person pulling the trailer, but not anyone else.

 

Now HA trips - adults pay their own way. For summer camp it depends on the troop funds, but most years they are able to cover the cost. Considering we have some adults that don't get vacation pay they are going a week without pay to help at summer camp - hard to make them pay too. Only other times the adults pay is with council or district events were there is a fee for adults - then they just pay that, the $ for food gets split among the boys.

[sbemis1]

My son's troop covers registration and most trip fees for all adults, including summer camp. High adventure, and the pricey X-Country ski trip are not paid by the troop. Gas or other trip related expenses can be re-imbursed with receipt or other proof of expense. I asked about and received re-imbursement for WFA for myself and another adult to support the Philmont trip. Few of the adults ask for any gas or other trip re-imbursements. The only time I've done so is when driving a lot to support an extended biking trip. I don't think anyone has asked about any other training re-imbursements.

This troop is financially secure, and expects to continue to be so.

[eisely]

I have very limited knowledge of "scoutreach" and if I am mistaken, please politely provide correct information. I understand that "scoutreach" is an initiative at the council level that may involved dedicated paid professional scouter time to support the initiative. Councils are existing legal entities that are already running payrolls, paying payroll taxes, providing workers compensation insurance, etc., and adding or redirecting an employee to execute the scoutreach initiative has no implications for units paying people.

 

I suspect that really large affluent COs may well put scout leaders on their payrolls too, particularly if the CO has multiple chartered units.

 

When I said that compensating volunteers for their time can create issues, I had the typical troop in mind. It would be a mistake to pay adult leaders for their time in typcial situations. One problem that would arise is that one would find people seeking these positions that one would otherwise reject.