Tour Permit requiring DL number

[gwd-scouter]

I just got a call from a Dad who will be one of our drivers for our upcoming ski trip. He tells me because of the possibility for identity theft, he will not give me his Drivers License number for the Tour Permit. Am sending it along to Council without the number and haven't heard back from them yet.

 

Anyone ever run into this situation?

[Crew21_Adv]

GWD,

 

Not exactly.

 

However, the Local Tour Permit is a planning document. It is so that you plan a trip, excursion, or event safely. (Sometimes even on the other side of town, driving to another location, during regular meeting time).

 

If the Committee Member and Tour Leader's signatures at the bottom of the form attest that all the drivers are legally licensed and insured automobile operators, then the Committee Member and Tour Leader are liable. The Council is only processing to confirm that a unit has adequately planned their trip.

 

 

It reassures the leader that all Scouts have seat belts, all drivers are currently insured and licensed. If you go near a lake, you have reviewed safe swim defense and will follow it exactly, etc, etc.

 

The end result is so the tour leader has stepped thru most all snags and confirmed to the parents that there will be a safe trip.

 

On rare occasions, a unit will not arrive at a predetermined a location. Still as a planning document, a processed tour permit may help by providing the driving route and agenda to law enforcement and families. They may begin searching hiking trails, campsites, or possible the highway rest-stops/gas stations.

 

Please check for yourself, I am recalling from memory. But the local tour permit is for less than 500 miles and recommended. (you can still proceed with a trip, even if it is not adequately planned). A National Tour Permit (500 miles or more) and International Tour Permit are required to be processed by Council or National, respectfully. This is when it become mandatory.

 

I have usually been informed, that most council insurance is a supplemental insurance (normally thru Mutual of Omaha is what I've seen in the Councils I've lived in, but other insurance companies may be determined by the Council Health and Safety Committee) As a supplemental, the youth should be admitted immediately, but any emergency care payment will be on the individual insurance, then the councils supplemental insurance.

 

Certainly correct me if I'm wrong... but I've heard these statements a few times...

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[evmori]

I'd respond by telling him because of the safety of the boys, it's required. I'd bet the identity theft line is a cover for something else.

 

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[frank10]

Are you sure he has one at all?

[frank10]

Dang Ed, You beat me to the punch.

[Eagledad]

Good reply Crew.

 

Barry

[Eagle69]

In my council it would probably not be approved without a lot of hassle. The Tour Permits are done by administrative staff and they basically have a checklist of things to look for, so if something isn't there that there checklist says should be they won't approve it. If that happens then you have to appeal to a higher authority.

 

I had this happen on an Eagle Application where someone other than the Registrar was checking it and found something missing and wasn't going to approve it. Fortunately my DE was there and told her that if she didn't approve it, he would.

 

The identity theft is a weak argument.

[Stosh]

A driver's license number is not an issue of identity theft. The DL # is a public identification number that is maintained by the individual state along with, but not exclusively with one's permission to drive. An identification card/DL proves with a picture who you are. All states which used to use SS# have switched over to a different number for identity theft reasons.

 

Anyone who refuses to give a DL number should not be allowed to drive anyone other than their own child to a scout event and thus do not need to be included in the Tour Permit application.

 

If a "Dad" refuses to give you the number, find a different driver. If he can't prove who he is, that he has state permission to drive, and who may not have proper liability insurance to cover the other scouts, then it's time to find a different driver. As humorous as the comments were, one DWI will pull a DL and unless that Dad can produce one as evidence, I would seriously doubt whether he should be for the troop.

 

Stosh

[Lisabob]

I agree it is a poor argument. From his perspective though, he may not understand who sees this information or why it is needed. Around here I can't so much as buy a cup of coffee these days without being asked to divulge my zip code, phone #, date of birth and SSN - even when I am paying cash. It gets to be ridiculous and my off-the-cuff reaction to requests for this type of info has become "no." (when they insist I tend to just make things up - and shop somewhere else next time)

 

Probably five minutes explaining to this fellow what the info is used for, who sees it, and why it really is necessary, should allay his fears. But if he still resists: as a parent I wouldn't be happy to find that some guy who refuses to provide any evidence of having a valid license might be driving my kid around on a ski trip. So no information, no driver (in my eyes).

[OldGreyEagle]

Maybe some of the legal hounds can help me, I also have had run ins with people who are afraid of identity theft and cite sources all over the place on how common it is and I dont dispute it takes place. What I do question is the habits of those who claim to be identity theft aware, I wonder how many of them never go to a restaurant where the server takes your credit/debit card "away" and then returns with it 10 minutes later with a receipt for you to sign. What happaned while your card was in coustody of the server? Were numbers copied? Signatures copied? How is this practice safe in an identity theft aware world? We need a credit card to rent a car, even if you end up paying in cash, they have your Credit card number and ID, or if a debit card they very well could ascertain your "Security Code" with a key recording program, how safe is safe?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[packsaddle]

Isn't there a BSA form, now, where we have to supply our SSN as well?

 

A few years back, the state of SC (Department of Motor Vehicles, I think) actually sold all of the identity information to some kind of business-related agency for the purposes of advertising or something like that.

The adult in question from the original post may have a bad memory from that event. Moreoever, there have been quite a few instances where other state offices have 'lost' or otherwise released similar personal information. It is possible that similar things have happened in other states as well. Claims or good intentions of confidentiality just tend to fall flat these days.

 

And, I could be wrong but, given the abysmal record-keeping by BSA, it is not a stretch to imagine anything on official BSA forms eventually becoming available to anyone who wants it. If the guy IS legally licensed, then the absence of his license number from some form is not relevant. Sometimes a 'bean-counter' exercise is just that.

[Lisabob]

pack, you're right that this is a bean counting exercise to a certain degree. But if the person won't provide his information in any way, how do we know if he even has a license? You might say well of course he does? But then when I was involved with our pack, we had a surprising number of parents who, it turned out, had a variety of driving problems (no license, suspended/revoked license, no insurance, etc.) that would not have come to light if they hadn't been asked to provide driver info before carting other people's children off to various pack events. One of them told me she'd been car pooling neighborhood kids to and from school and other (non-scout) events for a couple of years and never been asked - but in fact her license had been revoked (with good cause, even she agreed) and she had no insurance!!!! Again, how would a responsible scout leader know these things if we don't ask? And would you really feel comfortable assuming that all adults are going to be totally forthcoming, if you don't ask? Sorry, not me. I can see all kinds of reasons for people to be suspicious about divulging their personal information but in this particular setting where we are responsible for other people's children, there are two choices: either provide the info or don't drive anyone but your own immediate family members.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Packsaddle,

 

The Adult Volunteer Leader App requires the SSN. It's part of the background check procedures.

 

Folks who do not want to disclose their SSN may take their app to their Council Service Center and give it directly to the Registrar's office for processing.

 

It's suppressed on ScoutNet internet recharter.

 

As for the driver, I think I would thank him for having volunteered, invite him to ride with someone and never ever call on him for driving support ... period. Driving isn't the only parental support task in a unit.

[oldsm]

I agree. If an adult won't provide a DL number, then he can drive no one except his own family.

 

I wonder how often anyone checks to be sure that the drivers you have on your lists actually have the minimum insurance they said they did the first time they drove for the unit?

 

In my council, I don't know what happens to the tour permit with driver list. I know that the lady checks key items (like destination, activity, training, and number of seats available), approves it and gives me my piece. The rest gets put into a pile. What happens to the pile? Who knows? Maybe they just get tossed after a while if there were no claims. But are they guarded so the DL numbers aren't available to those who don't need to know? Are they just placed in the round file for the trash haulers to peruse?

 

I am not paranoid. I'm just wondering...

 

Pack, the form that requires a SSN is the Adult Application. Now there's one that scares me a bit. Sure, it's blocked out on the 2nd and 3rd pages, but there's nothing to keep someone from copying the first page that shows it clearly and keeping a "more legible" copy for their troop records. Where are the troop records kept?

 

What happens to the original after it's been processed at the Council? I'm sure the SSN gets put into ScoutNet, but is the original shredded? Filed away for 10 years and then discarded intact?

 

I have had MBC's who fought the SSN requirement. Council simply said "No SSN, no counselor. Find another one." They need it to do what we fondly refer to as the "FBI check".

[Eagledad]

>>As for the driver, I think I would thank him for having volunteered, invite him to ride with someone and never ever call on him for driving support ... period. Driving isn't the only parental support task in a unit.