It's about time that Scouting WOKE up

[Mrjeff]

Wow, somebody finally took notice and realized that Scouting had lost its way, and had the influence to make "National" realise how they have messed up the organization.   Secretary of War, Mr Hegseth said enough is enough and the whole idea of DEI is counterproductive to Scouting. I have been saying this for years and have voiced this opinion to every national screwup that I have had the occasion to meet.   Wow, get rid of that useless DEI Merit Badge, stop forcing the DEI boulderdash down people's throats and let the Boy Scouts be the Boy Scouts with the focus on the Scout Oath and the Scout Law.  Hurray for Secretary Hegseth and God Bless!

[Navybone]

What requirements in the Cit Society MB did you have issue with, do you think were against the ideals and goals of Scouting America?  

[Jameson76]

56 minutes ago, Navybone said:

What requirements in the Cit Society MB did you have issue with, do you think were against the ideals and goals of Scouting America?  

The main issue was that this was another classroom badge, do it in at Merit Badge U in a few hours.  Overall it was an empty suit.  While nothing egregious against basic goals, it was not challenging and was a check the box.  Nothing to accomplish, no measurable items,  just feel good writing.  It was smoke and mirrors to say "Hey, look how progressive we are".

Remember the requirements:

1. Before beginning work on other requirements for this merit badge, research the following terms and explain to your counselor how you feel they relate to the Scout Oath and Scout Law: identities, diversity, equality, equity, inclusion, discrimination, ethical leadership, and upstander.

Lot of buzz words here, no real meat or challenge, no actual answers, and if challenged one might be cast as racist or worse (not sure there is worse)

 

2. Document and discuss with your counselor what leadership means to you. Share what it means to make ethical decisions.

• (a) Research and share with your counselor an individual you feel has demonstrated positive leadership while having to make an ethical decision. (It could be someone in history, a family member, a teacher, a coach, a counselor, a clergy member, a Scoutmaster, etc.)
• (b) Explain what decision and/or options that leader had, why you believe they chose their final course of action, and the outcome of that action

More here, but lot of feel and again, no real challenge here, it is basic writing and rote answers

 

3. Consider ethical decision-making.

• (a) Think about a time you faced an ethical decision.
  • Discuss the situation, what you did, and how it made you feel.
  • Share if you would do anything differently in the future and if so, what that would be.
• (b) List three examples of ethical decisions you might have to make in the future at school, at home, in the workplace, or in your community, and what you would do.
  • Share how your actions represent alignment with the Scout Oath and Scout Law.
• (c) Explain to your counselor how you plan to use what you have learned to assist you when that time comes, and what action(s) you can take to serve as an upstander and help other people at all times.

Again, lots of touchy feely - feel good stuff , but as with all the requirements, no real challenge here, it is basic writing and rote answers.  I am sure the ChatGPT answers were great

 

4. Repeat the Scout Oath and Scout Law for your counselor. Choose TWO of the following scenarios and discuss what you could do as a Scout to demonstrate leadership and your understanding of what it means to help others who may seem different from you:

• (a) Scenario 1: While at camp, a youth accidentally spills food on another camper. The camper who gets spilled on gets angry and says something that is offensive to people with disabilities; their friends laugh. What could/should you do?
• (b) Scenario 2: Your friend confides in you that some students in school are making insulting comments about one of their identities, and that those same students created a fake social media account to impersonate your friend online and post messages. What could/should you do?
• (c) Scenario 3: A new student in your class was born in another country (or has a parent who was born in another country). Your friends make rude comments to the student about their speech or clothes and tell the student to "go back home where you came from." What could/should you do?

This is a basic HR opinion test recycled or really bad training video out take, not overtly terrible, but if this is our core mission, these items could be included in other existing merit badges

 

5. Document and discuss:

• (a) Ideas on what you personally can do to create a welcoming environment in your Scouting unit.
• (b) An experience you had in which you went out of your way to include another Scout(s) and what you did to make them feel included and welcomed.
• (c) Things you can do to help ensure all Scouts in your unit are given an opportunity to be heard and included in decision-making and planning.

Not a terrible requirement, but again, could be included in other existing merit badges

 

6. With your parent or guardian's approval, connect with another Scout or youth your own age who has an identity that's different from yours. (This means a trait, belief, or characteristic different from you.)

• (a) Share with each other what makes the different aspects of your identity meaningful/special to you
• (b) Share with each other ONE of the following options:
• (1) Option 1—A time you felt excluded from a group:
  • What was the situation?
  • How did it make you feel?
  • What did you do?
  • Did anyone stand up for you?
  • What did you learn?
  • Would you do anything differently today?
• (2) Option 2—This imaginary situation: You're attending a new school and don't know anyone there yet. You notice they dress very differently than you do. At lunchtime, you decide you'll try to sit with a group to get to know other students. People at two tables tell you there is someone sitting at the currently empty seat at their table, so you end up eating by yourself. Discuss:
  • How would that make you feel?
  • What could the students have done?
  • If that happened at your school, what would you do?
• (c) Discuss with your counselor what you learned from the discussion with the other Scout or youth.

The weakest requirement, as if used in the broad definition "who has an identity that's different from yours", basically that is anyone that is not in fact you.  We each have a unique identity.  The MB writers could not bring themselves to actually challenge Scouts to find someone of different gender, race, or nationality.  

 

7. Identify and interview an individual in your community, school, and/or Scouting who has had a significant positive impact in promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion. If you feel your community, school, or local Scouting group does not have such an individual, then research a historical figure who meets these criteria, and discuss that person with your counselor.

• (a) Discover what inspired the individual, learn about the challenges they faced, and share what you feel attributed to their success
• (b) Discuss with your counselor what you learned and how you can apply it in your life.

Self promotion and shameless support of the DEI cycle, let's applaud the program we are stoking

 

8. With the help of your parent or guardian, study an event that had a positive outcome on how society viewed a group of people and made them feel more welcome. Describe to your counselor the event and what you learned.

 

Not a terrible requirement, but again, could be included in other existing merit badges

 

9. Document and discuss with your counselor three or more areas in your life outside of Scouting where you feel you can actively provide stronger leadership in:

• (a) Making others feel included.
• (b) Practicing active listening.
• (c) Creating an environment where others feel comfortable to share their ideas and perspectives.
• (d) Helping others feel valued for their input and suggestions.
• (e) Standing up for others.

A feel good requirement, no actual measurements, just self promotion and support of the DEI cycle

 

10. Discuss with your counselor how stereotyping people can be harmful, and how stereotypes can lead to prejudice and discrimination. Share ideas you have for challenging assumptions and celebrating individuality.

 

A feel good requirement, no actual measurements or documented achievements, just self promotion and support of the DEI cycle

 

11. Scouting strives to develop young people to be future leaders in their workplaces, schools, and community environments. As you look at your current involvement in school, your family, Scouting, your job, and/or community, think about how you can have a positive impact in diversity, equity, and inclusion.

• (a) Describe your ideas on how you can and will support others with different identities to feel included and heard at your school, workplace, and/or social settings in your community.
• (b) Explain how including diverse thoughts and opinions from others with different identities can:
  • Make your interactions more positive.
  • Help everyone benefit by considering different opinions.
• (c) Give three examples of how limiting diverse input can be harmful.
• d) Give three examples of how considering diverse opinions can lead to innovation and success.

As with Req 7, basic self promotion and shameless support of the DEI cycle, let's applaud the program we are stoking

 

 

[FireStone]

3 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

let the Boy Scouts be the Boy Scouts

So you want to kick all the girls out? 

Maybe you'll get your wish. Scouting America bent the knee and now we can only wait and see how they'll pay for it. Today's demands aren't the end of the list for Hegseth, and Scouting America showing this kind of weakness only opens the door for him to demand more and more and expect to get his way. 

I guess when that happens, we'll see if there is any bravery left in that building in Irving. 

[FireStone]

Can we also just put it into perspective that this is a whole lot more than a merit badge discontinuation, and today's news effectively kicks many trans kids out of Scouting America? 

Trans kids now have to choose between switching to a troop that aligns with their birth gender or joining a coed troop, if one exists in their area. 

If a coed troop isn't available to them, and they don't wish to join a troop that doesn't align with their gender identity, they're effectively kicked out. 

This is awful. 

[Navybone]

2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

The main issue was that this was another classroom badge, do it in at Merit Badge U in a few hours.  Overall it was an empty suit.  While nothing egregious against basic goals, it was not challenging and was a check the box.  Nothing to accomplish, no measurable items,  just feel good writing.  It was smoke and mirrors to say "Hey, look how progressive we are".

Remember the requirements:

1. Before beginning work on other requirements for this merit badge, research the following terms and explain to your counselor how you feel they relate to the Scout Oath and Scout Law: identities, diversity, equality, equity, inclusion, discrimination, ethical leadership, and upstander.

Lot of buzz words here, no real meat or challenge, no actual answers, and if challenged one might be cast as racist or worse (not sure there is worse)

 

2. Document and discuss with your counselor what leadership means to you. Share what it means to make ethical decisions.

• (a) Research and share with your counselor an individual you feel has demonstrated positive leadership while having to make an ethical decision. (It could be someone in history, a family member, a teacher, a coach, a counselor, a clergy member, a Scoutmaster, etc.)
• (b) Explain what decision and/or options that leader had, why you believe they chose their final course of action, and the outcome of that action

More here, but lot of feel and again, no real challenge here, it is basic writing and rote answers

 

3. Consider ethical decision-making.

• (a) Think about a time you faced an ethical decision.
  • Discuss the situation, what you did, and how it made you feel.
  • Share if you would do anything differently in the future and if so, what that would be.
• (b) List three examples of ethical decisions you might have to make in the future at school, at home, in the workplace, or in your community, and what you would do.
  • Share how your actions represent alignment with the Scout Oath and Scout Law.
• (c) Explain to your counselor how you plan to use what you have learned to assist you when that time comes, and what action(s) you can take to serve as an upstander and help other people at all times.

Again, lots of touchy feely - feel good stuff , but as with all the requirements, no real challenge here, it is basic writing and rote answers.  I am sure the ChatGPT answers were great

 

4. Repeat the Scout Oath and Scout Law for your counselor. Choose TWO of the following scenarios and discuss what you could do as a Scout to demonstrate leadership and your understanding of what it means to help others who may seem different from you:

• (a) Scenario 1: While at camp, a youth accidentally spills food on another camper. The camper who gets spilled on gets angry and says something that is offensive to people with disabilities; their friends laugh. What could/should you do?
• (b) Scenario 2: Your friend confides in you that some students in school are making insulting comments about one of their identities, and that those same students created a fake social media account to impersonate your friend online and post messages. What could/should you do?
• (c) Scenario 3: A new student in your class was born in another country (or has a parent who was born in another country). Your friends make rude comments to the student about their speech or clothes and tell the student to "go back home where you came from." What could/should you do?

This is a basic HR opinion test recycled or really bad training video out take, not overtly terrible, but if this is our core mission, these items could be included in other existing merit badges

 

5. Document and discuss:

• (a) Ideas on what you personally can do to create a welcoming environment in your Scouting unit.
• (b) An experience you had in which you went out of your way to include another Scout(s) and what you did to make them feel included and welcomed.
• (c) Things you can do to help ensure all Scouts in your unit are given an opportunity to be heard and included in decision-making and planning.

Not a terrible requirement, but again, could be included in other existing merit badges

 

6. With your parent or guardian's approval, connect with another Scout or youth your own age who has an identity that's different from yours. (This means a trait, belief, or characteristic different from you.)

• (a) Share with each other what makes the different aspects of your identity meaningful/special to you
• (b) Share with each other ONE of the following options:
• (1) Option 1—A time you felt excluded from a group:
  • What was the situation?
  • How did it make you feel?
  • What did you do?
  • Did anyone stand up for you?
  • What did you learn?
  • Would you do anything differently today?
• (2) Option 2—This imaginary situation: You're attending a new school and don't know anyone there yet. You notice they dress very differently than you do. At lunchtime, you decide you'll try to sit with a group to get to know other students. People at two tables tell you there is someone sitting at the currently empty seat at their table, so you end up eating by yourself. Discuss:
  • How would that make you feel?
  • What could the students have done?
  • If that happened at your school, what would you do?
• (c) Discuss with your counselor what you learned from the discussion with the other Scout or youth.

The weakest requirement, as if used in the broad definition "who has an identity that's different from yours", basically that is anyone that is not in fact you.  We each have a unique identity.  The MB writers could not bring themselves to actually challenge Scouts to find someone of different gender, race, or nationality.  

 

7. Identify and interview an individual in your community, school, and/or Scouting who has had a significant positive impact in promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion. If you feel your community, school, or local Scouting group does not have such an individual, then research a historical figure who meets these criteria, and discuss that person with your counselor.

• (a) Discover what inspired the individual, learn about the challenges they faced, and share what you feel attributed to their success
• (b) Discuss with your counselor what you learned and how you can apply it in your life.

Self promotion and shameless support of the DEI cycle, let's applaud the program we are stoking

 

8. With the help of your parent or guardian, study an event that had a positive outcome on how society viewed a group of people and made them feel more welcome. Describe to your counselor the event and what you learned.

 

Not a terrible requirement, but again, could be included in other existing merit badges

 

9. Document and discuss with your counselor three or more areas in your life outside of Scouting where you feel you can actively provide stronger leadership in:

• (a) Making others feel included.
• (b) Practicing active listening.
• (c) Creating an environment where others feel comfortable to share their ideas and perspectives.
• (d) Helping others feel valued for their input and suggestions.
• (e) Standing up for others.

A feel good requirement, no actual measurements, just self promotion and support of the DEI cycle

 

10. Discuss with your counselor how stereotyping people can be harmful, and how stereotypes can lead to prejudice and discrimination. Share ideas you have for challenging assumptions and celebrating individuality.

 

A feel good requirement, no actual measurements or documented achievements, just self promotion and support of the DEI cycle

 

11. Scouting strives to develop young people to be future leaders in their workplaces, schools, and community environments. As you look at your current involvement in school, your family, Scouting, your job, and/or community, think about how you can have a positive impact in diversity, equity, and inclusion.

• (a) Describe your ideas on how you can and will support others with different identities to feel included and heard at your school, workplace, and/or social settings in your community.
• (b) Explain how including diverse thoughts and opinions from others with different identities can:
  • Make your interactions more positive.
  • Help everyone benefit by considering different opinions.
• (c) Give three examples of how limiting diverse input can be harmful.
• d) Give three examples of how considering diverse opinions can lead to innovation and success.

As with Req 7, basic self promotion and shameless support of the DEI cycle, let's applaud the program we are stoking

 

 

terms you use  to refute the value of the MB are "feel good requirement" and " no challenge."    The mission of Scouting America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.  Its vision to make people good citizens.  Understanding people makes them good citizens.  It does not need to be hard, but knowing how it see others from thier point of view is a mature and effective tool to be a good citizen.  

You think there are no answers to the terms and that they can make you Racist.  There are definitions.  They are in the training that the MB Counselors have to take:  

Key definitions included in the materials:

• Identities: Traits that make up who a person is, including race, gender, age, religion, and ability.
• Diversity: The presence of a wide range of individual identities.
• Equality: The state of having equal status, rights, and opportunities.
• Equity: Providing resources tailored to individuals to ensure fair access to opportunities.
• Inclusion: Active efforts to create a sense of belonging and participation for all individuals.
• Discrimination: The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people.

If a scout does not understand them, then we talk about them.  Maybe you can explain now they are racist. 

 

[Tron]

4 hours ago, Navybone said:

What requirements in the Cit Society MB did you have issue with, do you think were against the ideals and goals of Scouting America?  

For me the issue was a two point problem.

First of all the Citizenship in Society Merit Badge requirements for Merit Badge Counselors were the most stringent and only MBC leadership requirements universally enforced in scouting. To council the merit badge you had to have your MBC training complete prior to the special MB train-the-trainer session, and you had to sign a special contract above and beyond the MBC requirements attesting that you would not add to, remove from, or steer, or alter the merit badge materials. A fine process; however, no such process for any other merit badge. The fact that national knows that the merit badge program is compromised with unqualified and incompetent councilors and did nothing to improve or ensure quality control on the rest of the merit badge program pissed me off. 

Second of all the Citizenship in Society Merit Badge itself is the only merit badge without a test of knowledge or skill. As structured the merit badge simply did not have the legs to stand on to be considered a merit badge and never should have been in its structure and condition entered into the merit badge program. 

51 minutes ago, FireStone said:

So you want to kick all the girls out? 

Maybe you'll get your wish. Scouting America bent the knee and now we can only wait and see how they'll pay for it. Today's demands aren't the end of the list for Hegseth, and Scouting America showing this kind of weakness only opens the door for him to demand more and more and expect to get his way. 

I guess when that happens, we'll see if there is any bravery left in that building in Irving. 

This is the weak minded straw argument of the left. No one, not even Hegseth or any of choogy boys have said they want to kick girls out. What has been stated publicly and everything that has leaked has literally only been about concerns about political indoctrination and deviation from the true purpose of the program. 

39 minutes ago, FireStone said:

Can we also just put it into perspective that this is a whole lot more than a merit badge discontinuation, and today's news effectively kicks many trans kids out of Scouting America? 

Trans kids now have to choose between switching to a troop that aligns with their birth gender or joining a coed troop, if one exists in their area. 

If a coed troop isn't available to them, and they don't wish to join a troop that doesn't align with their gender identity, they're effectively kicked out. 

This is awful. 

Trans kids have always had this dilemma. Scouting Americas policy has always been that registration must align to gender within the confines of the state and federal laws governing the geography of the area of the unit. This argument is a nothing burger, this is a no change. NOTHING IS CHANGING in regards to this for anyone in Scouting America.  

34 minutes ago, Navybone said:

terms you use  to refute the value of the MB are "feel good requirement" and " no challenge."    The mission of Scouting America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.  Its vision to make people good citizens.  Understanding people makes them good citizens.  It does not need to be hard, but knowing how it see others from thier point of view is a mature and effective tool to be a good citizen.  

You think there are no answers to the terms and that they can make you Racist.  There are definitions.  They are in the training that the MB Counselors have to take:  

Key definitions included in the materials:

• Identities: Traits that make up who a person is, including race, gender, age, religion, and ability.
• Diversity: The presence of a wide range of individual identities.
• Equality: The state of having equal status, rights, and opportunities.
• Equity: Providing resources tailored to individuals to ensure fair access to opportunities.
• Inclusion: Active efforts to create a sense of belonging and participation for all individuals.
• Discrimination: The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people.

If a scout does not understand them, then we talk about them.  Maybe you can explain now they are racist. 

 

This right here is actually part of the problem that Hegseth and his toadies are rallying against. The mission statement of Scouting America has somehow deviated quite a bit from our congressional chartered purpose [which is]: 

That the purpose of this corporation shall be to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods which are now in common use by Boy Scouts.

Our membership is down to 1946 levels. 50 years of experimentation and deviation from the core mission of the program led us from a membership peak of 4 million scouts in 1970 to 821,000 scouts in 2026. With the doors open to male and female scouts our membership should be at a new record level, not collapsing towards mediocrity. Trying to push all of these other things, secondary mission statements, tertiary vision statements, derivative after derivative after derivative; all these watered down straying from the roots things are what are killing this organization. 

[Jameson76]

2 hours ago, Navybone said:

terms you use  to refute the value of the MB are "feel good requirement" and " no challenge."    The mission of Scouting America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.  Its vision to make people good citizens.  Understanding people makes them good citizens.  It does not need to be hard, but knowing how it see others from thier point of view is a mature and effective tool to be a good citizen.  

You think there are no answers to the terms and that they can make you Racist.  There are definitions.  They are in the training that the MB Counselors have to take:  

Key definitions included in the materials:

• Identities: Traits that make up who a person is, including race, gender, age, religion, and ability.
• Diversity: The presence of a wide range of individual identities.
• Equality: The state of having equal status, rights, and opportunities.
• Equity: Providing resources tailored to individuals to ensure fair access to opportunities.
• Inclusion: Active efforts to create a sense of belonging and participation for all individuals.
• Discrimination: The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people.

If a scout does not understand them, then we talk about them.  Maybe you can explain now they are racist. 

 

 

If you are a front line leader we talk to Scouts all the time.  About many many items, some intentionally and some as casual conversation.

Reminder we are all volunteers.  The Cit is Society was a knee jerk reaction to a societal event.  We can talk with Scouts about these particular issues, but again, we all have a variety of biases and experiences.  There are in fact no right answers to any of the CIS requirements, what is covered is all based on some MB counselors life experiences which may or may not dovetail with the Scouts and their families experiences and beliefs.  That could be good or bad.  The issue with CIS is it was ill conceived, a trendy MB to satisfy elements in society who don't like Scouting anyway, and honestly would be instructed solely based on the MB counselors beliefs.  No objective criteria no objective evaluation, no real requirements.

Best this is a MB be put aside and the organization moves on.

 

[FireStone]

2 hours ago, Tron said:

This is the weak minded straw argument of the left. No one, not even Hegseth or any of choogy boys have said they want to kick girls out. What has been stated publicly and everything that has leaked has literally only been about concerns about political indoctrination and deviation from the true purpose of the program. 

That's simply untrue. In Hegseth's own words: 

Quote

“I believe the Boy Scouts should go back to being the Boy Scouts as originally founded, a group that develops boys into men,” Hegseth said. “Maybe someday.”

 

[Mrjeff]

Why doesn't anybody compare all of these issues with the Scout Oath and Law.  There is a lot wrong with DEI and in my opinion it has no place in Scouting.  Perhaps Scouting America should have three apecific groups:  Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Boy/ Girl Scouts and Identity Scouts.   Maybe that would satisfy everyone.  That way there would be specific group of Scouts for everyone.  DEI stands for division, end of scouting and incompatibility.  Scouting has rejected its values and is falling apart just like our government and many other institutions that have given in to public opinion.  I wonder why so many people get upset when I make a conservative statement?

[BetterWithCheddar]

11 hours ago, FireStone said:

Scouting America bent the knee and now we can only wait and see how they'll pay for it. Today's demands aren't the end of the list for Hegseth, and Scouting America showing this kind of weakness only opens the door for him to demand more and more and expect to get his way. 

The knee was already bent with the membership changes and Citizenship in Society merit badge. Now it's being hyperextended the other way. In between it filed for bankruptcy. Let's face it, we're really limping along here.