What is Going On With the OA

[Eagle94-A1]

I have been inactive for quite some time. Once the kids became Cubs, I had to pick and choose what to focus on, and OA went out the window. My chapter essentially folded circa 2017, as that was the last time elections were held. Tried to get  them to come, no response.

Well the SM got a neighboring chapter to come in for an election. Yep our chapter is dead, and the hope is the chapter can get restarted. But here is the funny thing.

1. The chapter advisor ran the entire election process. Youth basically said their names and whether they were Brotherhood or Vigil.

2. As long as you were First Class, the camping no longer mattered.

3. The only adult, 21+,  was voted on and not nominated.

4. Everyone seemed to get elected, including folks who had just joined the troop, and no one really knows them. While I am glad they got elected, This shocked me.

 

Is this now the norm, or a freak anomaly?

[skeptic]

You likely do not want to have some responses of we old people that were elected long ago.  It pretty much lost any real credibility, in my view, when it stopped putting limits on how many could be elected in a unit, and ceremonies were done with youth reading from a piece of paper and often with little or no obvious prep.  

Today, since I am still the on paper SM, though not active directly, I get the notices which I forward to my younger adults.  I have counseled them with "my opinion" that if they choose to be in the election then they also have to commit to the Ordeal and at least some initial participation.  Otherwise, I will not approve their being elected.  The SM still has veto power, and I choose to use it in this.  Our local lodge now is challenged to even find a place to do stuff, as they sold all our camps.  The SE told me they do a good job helping around the office; hmmmmm.  

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:52 PM by skeptic

[Tron]

OA in my area is basically a joke as described by Eagle94. I know that Jan 1st a bunch of changes went into affect and it's blowing up what was already a barely hanging on for relevance program that OA became. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Some new norm, some freak anomaly...

1.  Still should be youth ( <21 y.o.) run election from Lodge... does not have to be your chapter.  In fact, if you had youth in your Troop who were OA members, and were trained in running elections, your Troop could do its own election.  Has to be "blessed" by your lodge...  Adults (>= 21)  should in no way be running the election.  This happened with our election last year, as no youth were available the night of our Troop election.  I thought we should reschedule, but SM and Lodge wanted it done... smh.

2.  Camping nights are still required.  Election team does not check this... this is done by SM, who must certify eligible from the unit.  Criteria here,  https://oa-scouting.org/about/membership  That said, I have seen unit leaders certify camping nights when they should not have....

3.  Not sure what you mean here, "The only adult, 21+,  was voted on and not nominated."  Adults are nominated by the Troop committee...  was this your process??

4.  Yes, everyone "eligible" can get elected now.  All you need is 50% of those present to vote for you.  Say your unit has 5 eligible and 20 Scouts present.  Each ballot can list five names.  If all five candidates receive a minimum of 10 votes, they are in.  smh

I take a slightly different tack that @skeptic, and this has been a heated topic in the past....  Here are my thoughts and beliefs, supported by mountains of literature on and from OA... many take a different thought-path, though...

A.  As @skeptic says,  "It pretty much lost any real credibility, in my view, when it stopped putting limits on how many could be elected in a unit..."  Agree.  OA is no longer really an "honor society" within Scouting, if everyone can get in.  That said, we did have a Scout who did not really do anything for the Troop and his fellow Scouts other than show up... his buddies did not select him for OA membership.  But that is the only one I have seen in the time since the election rules changed.

B.  Order of the Arrow recognition is unit-level.  There is no written guidance on what "approval of the Scoutmaster" means, other than the written requirements for membership linked above.  For any unit leader to inject their personal observations into it makes the process capricious and one showing favoritism. However, if a Scout, who is First Class or above, is not living up to the Scout Oath and Law, the the unit leader should tell the Scout specifically before the OA election, give corrective behavior and goals, and sign off a Scoutmaster Conference for the next rank.  (If Scout continues poor behavior, then should be brought up with Troop Committee and let the Scout know he will not be signed off on STAR (or LIFE) requirement #2 "...demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law." )  If the Scoutmaster deems a Scout is eligible, his name should be on the ballot, WHETHER THE SCOUT INTENDS TO COMPLETE THE ORDEAL OR NOT.   Simply being elected to the Order of the Arrow is the honor the unit gets to bestow upon their fellow Scouts.  It is not about future service to the Lodge... that is what the Brotherhood recognition is for...  "An Arrowman's first duty is to his unit."  https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/24-413.pdf    https://oa-scouting.org/article/thoughts-arrowmans-primary-duty

C.  When I talk with Scouts about potential OA membership, I tell them there is NO OBLIGATION to serve the Lodge after undertaking the Ordeal.  There is an obligation to continue serving the unit.  "...the ones who chose you need you."    There are TWO different "statuses"... one is membership in the Order of the Arrow (for which you wear your sash); the second is membership in the Lodge (for which you wear your flap.  Once you pass the Ordeal (without flinching  ) you are ALWAYS A MEMBER OF THE ORDER OF THE ARROW.  However, once you pass the Ordeal, you must pay your annual dues to be a member of the local lodge.

In the WImachtendienk,

Amangiechsin

[Eagle94-A1]

On 2/11/2026 at 6:00 PM, Tron said:

 I know that Jan 1st a bunch of changes went into affect and it's blowing up what was already a barely hanging on for relevance program that OA became. 

Do not remind me of the changes.. Yes, some lodges were doing things wrong. Other lodges were doing it properly. I don't think if the local Native nation has both youth and elders involved with the OA, doing ceremonies, dancing, singing, etc is a problem. Heck one lodge had a tribal councilman as a member, and his cousin was a ceremonialist. Another lodge had a powwow drum started at an OA event.

On 2/11/2026 at 3:47 PM, skeptic said:

 It pretty much lost any real credibility, in my view, when it stopped putting limits on how many could be elected in a unit, and ceremonies were done with youth reading from a piece of paper and often with little or no obvious prep.  

...  Our local lodge now is challenged to even find a place to do stuff, as they sold all our camps.  The SE told me they do a good job helping around the office; hmmmmm.  

I was active when the change was made. I and a few others said the OA will slowly die as a result of letting everyone in. I gave them 20-25 years. I think the 100th Anniversary gave it a little more life, and of course the patch collectors.

OK, I admit, I have read names off of scrolls and the back of shield for AOL and Call Outs. Especially if the pack didn't have anything with their names on it.

But completely agree with reading  from paper for the main ceremonies. I would rather the "contemplative pause" or even ad libbing the lines, especially if the ceremonialist knew the meaning and purpose of the lines.

 

On 2/11/2026 at 6:44 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

3.  Not sure what you mean here, "The only adult, 21+,  was voted on and not nominated."  Adults are nominated by the Troop committee...  was this your process??

Instead of using an adult nomination form, they put the SM on the ballot with the youth, and had the Youth vote on him.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Instead of using an adult nomination form, they put the SM on the ballot with the youth, and had the Youth vote on him.

Madness

[mrjohns2]

On 2/11/2026 at 5:44 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

2.  Camping nights are still required.  Election team does not check this... this is done by SM, who must certify eligible from the unit.  Criteria here,  https://oa-scouting.org/about/membership  That said, I have seen unit leaders certify camping nights when they should not have....

The camping requirement has been eliminated for adults. 

[scoutldr]

Induction of adults into the OA was never intended to be an "honor"...it was to fulfill the need for adult supervision and advisors to the youth.  As such, they are not "elected", but "selected".  I agree with the elimination of the camping requirement.

[skeptic]

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

The camping requirement has been eliminated for adults. 

I was not aware of the Adult adjustment, though totally agree.  Years ago I had one of our parents and really involved parents turned down by our lodge for nomination due to his not having ever done a long term.  Now this is a man that had done every available training of the time, as he could fit it in.  And he had been on a dozen or more weekend backpacks, some up to four nights, and he had done what was then called Trail Boss training with the FS.  But, he had tow younger daughters and a wife, and his annual longer term vacation was for family.  Thus he did not go to summer camps.  When his son was elected, was when we also nominated him as an adult.  Fortunately he rethought his emotional response when turned down, and he did not drop out.  He finally managed to work out a week at summer camp, but that was three years later.  It was, from my perspective, ignorant and short sighted.  He had more nights than a number of adults that did get accepted due to summer camps, plus he also was an accomplished welder and building skilled person willing to share his skills.  The worst part of that was when I suggested to the Scout Exec that he might wave the summer camp requirement of the time, he refused.  Later I went to Jambo and spoke to a couple of OA big shots, and they told me in no uncertain terms that my perspective was nonsense and they would never even consider that.  Oh well; he is long in the background, the son is in his thirties and married, and OA is a mess.