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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 6 - Plan 5.0/TCC Plan TBD


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The BSA's math doesn't add up. I think this is Stang's point.

If I merge the data from

Fifth Amended Plan pages 148-149 https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/010161cd-594e-4b9e-8c88-a7402b49cf4d_6212.pdf

And Exhibit F of the Fifth Amended Plan https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/3fa71e64-3562-4885-99ea-d71178ab2f0f_6224.pdf

Tier

Type of Abuse

Base Matrix Value

Maximum Matrix Value

Unique and Timely Abuse Claim Count by Allegation

Base * Unique and Timely

Maximum * Unique And Timely

1

REDACTED

$600,000

$2,700,000

24,539

$14,723,400,000

$66,255,300,000

2

REDACTED

$450,000

$2,025,000

18,856

$8,485,200,000

$38,183,400,000

3

REDACTED

$300,000

$1,350,000

13,022

$3,906,600,000

$17,579,700,000

4

REDACTED

$150,000

$675,000

17,138

$2,570,700,000

$11,568,150,000

5

REDACTED

$75,000

$337,500

1879

$140,925,000

$634,162,500

6

REDACTED

$3,500

$8,500

1294

$4,529,000

$10,999,000

 

Unknown/Unconfirmed

   

3817

   
 

Missing

   

1664

   
         

$29,831,354,000

$134,231,711,500

That means White & Case is assuming discounting all those claims down to get to $2.7-7.1 billion. Down from $29-$134 billion.

That's just insane.

No victim is going to go into a situation being told they are entitled to $600,000 - $2.7 million but vote for this plan to get you maybe 1-3% of that.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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This is Doug Kennedy, a member of the TCC.  First, I want to thank all of you for your comments over the past 18 months.  Your comments and those in other forums, whether I disagree with them or not,

A few months ago, one of the posters here offered some great advice I thought.  Type what you intend  to say. Set it aside for a few minutes and look at it again before you press "post". Does it

Normally I wouldn't discuss user issues, but given his profile pic and signature I'm going to make an exception: Regardless of the impression given by his profile picture and signature line, Cyni

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48 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Even the LDS issue is going to be debated.  I don't think we know for sure.  Right now, it is all 1 big pot per the plan ... unless CynicalScouter found something different in the plan

I think I head earlier that the LDS funds were being guaranteed for only LDS claims. Not sure.

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3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

The BSA's math doesn't add up. I think this is Stang's point.

If I merge the data from

Fifth Amended Plan pages 148-149 https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/010161cd-594e-4b9e-8c88-a7402b49cf4d_6212.pdf

And Exhibit F of the Fifth Amended Plan https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/3fa71e64-3562-4885-99ea-d71178ab2f0f_6224.pdf

Tier

Type of Abuse

Base Matrix Value

Maximum Matrix Value

Unique and Timely Abuse Claim Count by Allegation

Base * Unique and Timely

Maximum * Unique And Timely

1

REDACTED

$600,000

$2,700,000

24,539

$14,723,400,000

$66,255,300,000

2

REDACTED

$450,000

$2,025,000

18,856

$8,485,200,000

$38,183,400,000

3

REDACTED

$300,000

$1,350,000

13,022

$3,906,600,000

$17,579,700,000

4

REDACTED

$150,000

$675,000

17,138

$2,570,700,000

$11,568,150,000

5

REDACTED

$75,000

$337,500

1879

$140,925,000

$634,162,500

6

REDACTED

$3,500

$8,500

1294

$4,529,000

$10,999,000

 

Unknown/Unconfirmed

   

3817

   
 

Missing

   

1664

   
         

$29,831,354,000

$134,231,711,500

That means White & Case is assuming discounting all those claims down to get to $2.7-7.1 billion. Down from $29-$134 billion.

That's just insane.

No victim is going to go into a situation being told they are entitled to $600,000 - $2.7 million but vote for this plan to get you maybe 1-3% of that.

What you are missing is:

  • SOL ... many of these claims are probably really $0 since they are outside SOL
  • False claims ... BSA must be assuming some are false

That said ... even then I expect the math doesn't add up.

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Zalkin is using an exact claimant to explain why this entire process is garbage using an Orange County Council claimant in 1977 and a Hartford insurance plan with no aggregate limits.

I believe he is changing the names to protect the victim/claimant.

This is very LC focused, and his point is that the LC is getting away with something. $44 million assets and his victim.

Zalkin is confident he can get settlement for millions and a jury trial for $7-10 million against Orange County Council.

It is reasonable for him to ask and BSA to explain: why is $44 million in assets only resulting in $13 million contribution? Why so little? 277 cases against the council, how much are those claims worth?

Zalkin is absolutely demonstrating that this entire process where the LCs walk way for what amounts to pennies is insane.

He wants the aggregate values of all claims against the councils by individual council. And he's furious about the Hartford settlement.

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10 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

What you are missing is:

  • SOL ... many of these claims are probably really $0 since they are outside SOL
  • False claims ... BSA must be assuming some are false

That said ... even then I expect the math doesn't add up.

But EVEN WITH those, I don't see how you reduce $30-$134 billion to only $2.1-$7 billion. And even if it is that low, why would a victim accept it when they were assured hundreds of thousands if not millions.

Zalkin just said: he's thinking he can settle for millions NOW against Orange County Council and Hartford. Why on earth would he take this deal?

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There is talk about this issue of where the money goes, what they are calling "pooling".

Talk about source "Weighing" where, for example, MOST of the contributions from LC will go to pay off those claims coming from that particular LC.

BSA wants that all shoved off until confirmation but note this which certain seems to lend itself to the "big pot of money, but with weighting".

Quote

f. Source Affected Weighting
Notwithstanding the Initial Payment Percentage and the Supplemental Payment
Percentages applied hereunder, a portion of Non-BSA Sourced Assets shall be allocated (after
deducting an estimated pro rata share of Settlement Trust expenses and direct expenses related to
the collection of Non-BSA Sourced Assets) only among the Allowed Abuse Claims that (1)
could have been satisfied from that source absent the Plan’s Discharge and Channeling Injunction
and (2) are held by Direct Abuse Claimants that execute a conditional release, the form of which
is attached as Exhibit B to the Trust Distribution Procedures, releasing all claims against all
Chartered Organizations if the Settlement Trust enters into a global settlement making such
Chartered Organization a Protected Party. The Settlement Trustee shall establish separate
payment percentages in accordance with the Settlement Trust Agreement to effectuate the
distribution of any Non-BSA Sourced Assets. For the avoidance of doubt, irrespective of the
establishment of the indicated portion of any increased payment percentage under Article IX.F of
the Trust Distribution Procedures and the Settlement Trust Agreement that allocates Non-BSA
Sourced Assets to holders of certain eligible Allowed Abuse Claims, the maximum payment that
an Abuse Claimant can recover from the Settlement Trust before all other Allowed Abuse Claims
are paid in full is the Final Determination Allowed Abuse Claim Amount for his or her Claim.

 

Everything BSA is saying at this point is "wait for confirmation, let's just get to the vote".

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For those who insist that the BSA can just declare all LC assets belong to BSA and then liquidate, BSA brings up a point that was brought up before: there are a LOT of state laws that would prevent that from happening. This is in the context of the liquidation issue

Edited by CynicalScouter
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1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

Will the amount that is received be dependent on the amount contributed by LC and number of claimants from the LC? I don’t believe that I have seen a definitive answer to this question. 

Normally?  Where does that figure come from?  What is normal, and how did it pop up?  There is no normal, only greed and lawyer hype.

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42 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

But EVEN WITH those, I don't see how you reduce $30-$134 billion to only $2.1-$7 billion. And even if it is that low, why would a victim accept it when they were assured hundreds of thousands if not millions.

Zalkin just said: he's thinking he can settle for millions NOW against Orange County Council and Hartford. Why on earth would he take this deal?

Of course some are false.  If you think they are not, then you do not live in our warped world and legal system.

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