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Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan


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11 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

If I was an executive with an LC, I would be pounding on the BSA's front door to let me in with cash in hand and beg them not to launch me into the ocean.

I would think that the BSA has another more robust plan for survivors (remember the motto "be prepared"). The "Death Trap B Plan" leaves all of the LC's and CO's on the sinking ship and the BSA National on the only lifeboats. Would they wave and say good luck? How much bitterness would that generate? BSA National needs the LC's or there is no BSA.  Yes they can grant new charters but the publicity on the local and national level for the next 4 to 5 years will deter more parents from allowing their children become part of the organization.  With out new blood BSA cannot survive and I am sure that they know this.  If there is a Global Settlement then BSA can wave the flag and the spin will be look at what good we have done for our former members.

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Forums work well in many ways, but it is probably not the best way to discuss the difficult feelings of this bankruptcy while also discussing the impact to child sex abuse survivors.  However, there a

The mental fallout from my abuse was mostly dormant prior to the current lawsuit. It would still torment me in idle moments. Or at night sometimes when I lay in bed trying not to blame myself after so

I would like to not lock the thread but we seem to be in a rut that we need to get out of before any progress can be made. Here are some observations that might help. First, human dignity is the

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7 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I would think that the BSA has another more robust plan for survivors (remember the motto "be prepared").

No time like the present and there may be no time at all if it isn't now.

I haven't seen it noted, but the BSA's, as opposed to the TCC commissioned Berkeley Research Group's, assessment of net aggregate LC assets is $3.296B rounded. Of that, $1.427B is claimed to be restricted in one form or another leaving $1.896B unrestricted. I am so anxious to see BRG's comparative numbers I hardly bear it. I fear I will not get my wish, at least not for a good while. Alas. 

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Here is a link to what the TCC feels that an abuse is worth for negotiating purposes. 

Boy Scouts of America: Pachulski Stang Ziehl & Jones (pszjlaw.com)

Couple that with the table 

Unique and Timely Abuse Claim Count by Local Council & Allegation Rows 1-264 (in white) list Abuse Claims against individual Local Councils. Rows 265-1,267 (in blue) list Abuse Claims against more than one Local Council

Contained in:

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/213bd53f-b44f-45c9-97fc-246bcb7ca06b_4108.pdf

And now we can see how the TCC came to value the abuse claims at 103 Billion

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Assuming the $103B is what should be owed, isn't the purpose of bankruptcy due to not being able to pay all debts? Therefore isn't the whole point of the bankruptcy judge to determine what reduced amounts each creditor will recieve? 

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8 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

Assuming the $103B is what should be owed, isn't the purpose of bankruptcy due to not being able to pay all debts? Therefore isn't the whole point of the bankruptcy judge to determine what reduced amounts each creditor will recieve? 

As mentioned the TCC said that the table of what a claim was worth was for negotiation purposes.  If you read into that then the 103 Billion would be the same.  I am not the one to say that it is the bankruptcy judges decision to reduce amounts (can someone else comment on this) I will say there is a large gap between 2.7-7.1 and 103 billion.  I do believe that the judge could rule on some motions to get the figure above what has now been proposed by the BSA.

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Just glancing through the council assets, I was a bit surprised that a lot of camps were unrestricted. It would not surprise me if BSA owned more forest land than most small states.

There are at least 10 councils that have 50 million in assets. There are probably 30 that have 10 million or more.

The big ones were Sam Houston, Circle 10, Atlanta, and the America councils. These are over 600 million. Then, there are a bunch of councils smaller than 5 million.

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31 minutes ago, RobertCalifornia said:

Just glancing through the council assets, I was a bit surprised that a lot of camps were unrestricted. It would not surprise me if BSA owned more forest land than most small states.

There are at least 10 councils that have 50 million in assets. There are probably 30 that have 10 million or more.

The big ones were Sam Houston, Circle 10, Atlanta, and the America councils. These are over 600 million. Then, there are a bunch of councils smaller than 5 million.

We'd have to dig through some old forums to find the discussions. But, there has been a shift in policy away from developing restricted assets. Chances are most of the newer camps (or camps with newer expansions) are unrestricted.

Camps with restrictions are older because councils can't sell them off.

The acquisition land in the face of declining membership has been an ongoing topic of these forums.

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4 minutes ago, qwazse said:

We'd have to dig through some old forums to find the discussions. But, there has been a shift in policy away from developing restricted assets. Chances are most of the newer camps (or camps with newer expansions) are unrestricted.

Camps with restrictions are older because councils can't sell them off.

The acquisition land in the face of declining membership has been an ongoing topic of these forums.

Makes sense....who wants to own a restricted old camp on the beach if you can sell it for a windfall and build a modern camp to meet your needs. 

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20 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

FYI, this (hearing) was already scheduled to continue to next Monday to address everything on the agenda.

 

Monday May 24, is also the first day of the virtual National Annual Meeting (NAM).  :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, RobertCalifornia said:

 

Are there any minutes or a recorded zoom from the May 19 meeting? 

 

I believe transcripts are delayed for a while as effectively proprietary to the court/stenographer. It’s recorded, but I think only for the transcription and court’s use. I’m guessing or vaguely recalling. Nothing is available right now as far as I know (which is approximately the distance between my keyboard and my nose on most days).

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11 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:
21 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

 

Monday May 24, is also the first day of the virtual National Annual Meeting (NAM).  :rolleyes:

Does that denote a sign from heaven, be it sunshine or storm, given the concurrence of events? Quite a coinc-adink. 

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9 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

We are a bit of a mixed state.   No look back window.  Some are pushing, but the leaders who previously support d reforms are not answering questions.  The Catholic Church is fighting hard against changes as are private schools. 
 

I kind of thought this drive to pass look-backs would fade fairly quickly when people started connecting the dots and imagined what could happen when school districts and state governments started getting sued.  It's only a matter of time until someone tries suing a state government over "campus rapes allowed by permissive, state-run schools, who abdicated their duty to protect their students".

6 hours ago, ThenNow said:

2) A single case of CSA against many LCs could sink or nearly sink the ship, asset base depending. $18+/-M is the high water mark for judgments, as far as I know.

I have to think that most LCs have insurance policies of their own to protect against losses due to lawsuits. (I know mine does)  I mean, they are poorly enough run that I can easily believe some Councils don't, because they thought "they were covered by national", but I have to hope that would be a rarity.

3 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Here is a link to what the TCC feels that an abuse is worth for negotiating purposes. 

Boy Scouts of America: Pachulski Stang Ziehl & Jones (pszjlaw.com)

Couple that with the table 

Unique and Timely Abuse Claim Count by Local Council & Allegation Rows 1-264 (in white) list Abuse Claims against individual Local Councils. Rows 265-1,267 (in blue) list Abuse Claims against more than one Local Council

Contained in:

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/213bd53f-b44f-45c9-97fc-246bcb7ca06b_4108.pdf

And now we can see how the TCC came to value the abuse claims at 103 Billion

I'm curious to know if the awards will be adjusted for time for those people who were abused decades ago.  It would seem like they probably should, but who knows.

Also, if we are talking about awards in the situation of a bankruptcy, it would seem like a more realistic target would be the roughly $290k that the Catholic Church has averaged.

2 hours ago, Muttsy said:

A cram down has never been done in a sexual abuse bankruptcy and she won't do it here.  

Yes, This has been repeated ad nauseam by another poster.  The problem with this little saying is that we aren't talking about some mountain of past precedent spanning the last 50 years that would need to be set aside; rather, pretty much all you are talking about are a couple dozen Catholic Church bankruptcies since 2004. Given the scope of this one, it would be a pretty easy thing for a judge to say "This is a functionally different situation than the past CSA bankruptcies".

Unless of course you can point out some situations where bankruptcy judges actually denied discharge when an agreement couldn't be reached?

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2 hours ago, RobertCalifornia said:

Just glancing through the council assets, I was a bit surprised that a lot of camps were unrestricted.

How can you tell if it's restricted? I couldn't find the description of letter codes that went with each camp.

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