outdoor campfire cooking but sleeping in a cabin

[Treflienne]

There is still snow on the ground here, and for our first overnight outing with new scouts we will be going to a local boy scout camp and staying in small cabins there.  Cooking will be done outdoors over campfires.  The scouts will plan and cook their meals.  However, since they will not be sleeping in tents that they pitched themselves, this is not actually a campout.  Since this is not a campout, then the meal planning and preparation and cleanup do not count for rank advancement.  Is this interpretation correct?

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Tenderfoot

1b.     Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch.

2a.     On the campout, assist in preparing one of the meals. Tell why it is important for each patrol member to share in meal preparation and cleanup.

2b.     While on a campout, demonstrate the appropriate method of safely cleaning items used to prepare, serve, and eat a meal.

SECOND CLASS

1a.      Since joining Scouts BSA, participate in five separate troop/patrol activities, at least three of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least two must include overnight camping. These activities do not include troop or patrol meetings. On campouts, spend the night in a tent that you pitch or other structure that you help erect, such as a lean-to, snow cave, or tepee.

2e.      On one campout, plan and cook one hot breakfast or lunch, selecting foods from MyPlate or the current USDA nutritional model. Explain the importance of good nutrition. Demonstrate how to transport, store, and prepare the foods you selected.

 

 

[Thunderbird]

TF #1b. - They are cabin camping, so cannot count.
TF #2a. - Uses the term "the campout", which seems to refer to TF #1b., but unclear.  Scoutmaster's discretion?
TF #2b. - Uses the term "a campout".  If it's not referring to the campout in TF #1b, then it could count.

SC #1a. - They are cabin camping - not tent camping.  I would count it as an outdoor activity, but not a "campout".
SC #2e. - Unless the term "On one campout" is interpreted strictly to refer to the campouts as defined in SC #1a, then I think this could count.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Thunderbird

[Treflienne]

To be clear, I am not asking if the trip counts as camping for the purposes of TF 1a/1b -- it does not.    I am not asking if the trip counts as camping for the purposes camping for SC 1a -- it does not.    My question is about specifically about the meal planning, cooking, and cleanup and TF 2a/b and SC 2e.    I listed the other requirments, because they seem to define what a campout is for the purposes of rank advancment.

[RememberSchiff]

Good question.

IMHO, TF 2a/b are to be done with said campout in TF 1a/b. They go together. SC 2e can be done on any campout. 

Cabin-ins (as opposed to campouts) are a great "controlled"opportunity to practice skills ahead of that campout.  They can still plan, cook, and cleanup (minimize mess!). Focus on the fun.  Secret ingredient . Best shaped pancake - is that Mickey Mouse or Ratatouille?  One hand egg cracking and how scrambled eggs came about. Best non-mix hot chocolate. ..  

KISMIF

My $0.02,

Edited February 26, 2019 by RememberSchiff

[TMSM]

In my opinion 2b and SC 2e can be interpreted to mean any campout, 2a refers to 1b. As SM I would look at these based on context.Are you prepping, cookng and cleaning outside? The point of these requirements is to get used to doing these things in the outdoors so if you are cooking by dutch oven and hanging out in the cabin waiting for things to cook this should not count. If you are using the sink in the cabin to clean it should not count, prepping in the kitchen it should not count.

 

 

[Treflienne]

47 minutes ago, TMSM said:

.Are you prepping, cookng and cleaning outside? The point of these requirements is to get used to doing these things in the outdoors so if you are cooking by dutch oven and hanging out in the cabin waiting for things to cook this should not count. If you are using the sink in the cabin to clean it should not count, prepping in the kitchen it should not count. 

 

 

Cabins have no kitchen, no plumbing, no sink.   Water needs to be hauled from a spigot at a different location in the camp.  All cooking has to be done outdoors on a campfire or camp stove.  (Troop wants to do it on campfire.)

[Treflienne]

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Best shaped pancake - is that Mickey Mouse or Ratatouille? 

In my experience, pancakes are a terrible choice for beginner campfire cooking.  Too hard to keep the heat really uniform.   Too many memories (as a high school girl scout) of being offered scrambled burnt pancakes by brownies I was accompanying.

[perdidochas]

43 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

In my experience, pancakes are a terrible choice for beginner campfire cooking.  Too hard to keep the heat really uniform.   Too many memories (as a high school girl scout) of being offered scrambled burnt pancakes by brownies I was accompanying.

I agree. Pancakes are hard enough to do right on a stove.  

[mrkstvns]

1 hour ago, Treflienne said:

In my experience, pancakes are a terrible choice for beginner campfire cooking.  Too hard to keep the heat really uniform.   Too many memories (as a high school girl scout) of being offered scrambled burnt pancakes by brownies I was accompanying.

I think they're a great choice.  Conceptually easy to make, the boys have a great opportunity to learn how easily they can be messed up. So what if they don't make perfect pancakes the first time, at least THEY got to make them themselves and they learned a few things they might do different next time.

No reason to over-protect kids from the possibility of a messed up pancake. 

Let 'em fail safely. Or succeed beyond your expectations...

[Treflienne]

We are digressing. The scouts will pick their own menus.  Back to my main question.  Opinionated opinions please:

11 hours ago, Treflienne said:

Cooking will be done outdoors over campfires.  The scouts will plan and cook their meals.  However, since they will not be sleeping in tents that they pitched themselves, this is not actually a campout.  Since this is not a campout, then the meal planning and preparation and cleanup do not count for rank advancement.  Is this interpretation correct? 

 

[mrkstvns]

4 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

Cooking will be done outdoors over campfires.  The scouts will plan and cook their meals.  However, since they will not be sleeping in tents that they pitched themselves, this is not actually a campout.  Since this is not a campout, then the meal planning and preparation and cleanup do not count for rank advancement.  Is this interpretation correct?

I think your interpretation is correct regarding cooking requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class (all of which specifically say "On a campout").  However, a scout might be able to prepare those meals and use them towards their Cooking MB requirements (some of which do not specify cooking on a campout).

[HashTagScouts]

The requirements for cooking nowadays specifically point to "a campout from requirement # X".  You have to be sure on reading the related requirement on what it defines a s a campout.  

Edited February 26, 2019 by HashTagScouts

[MikeS72]

We were way ahead of the culinary trends when I was a young scout in the 60's.  Many were the mornings that we enjoyed Cajun Blackened Pancakes.

[mrkstvns]

9 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

The requirements for cooking nowadays specifically point to "a campout from requirement # X".  You have to be sure on reading the related requirement on what it defines a s a campout.  

Don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't see that kind of language in any of the Tenderfoot through First Class rank requirements.  I see "On a campout", "On one of the campouts," or in the case of Tenderfoot "On the campout" (which I usually interpret as the scout's first campout, at which we try to sign off requirement 1 as well --- have them show us what equipment they pack and sleep in a tent they themselves pitch.

Besides, I see no merit in telling a kid he has to cook one particular campout. When he gets it done, he gets it done. 

[Thunderbird]

Watch out for the Cooking merit badge, which does not allow its meals to double-count towards rank advancement or other merit badges:

 

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Note: The meals prepared for Cooking merit badge requirements 4, 5, and 6 will count only toward fulfilling those requirements and will not count toward rank advancement or other merit badges. Meals prepared for rank advancement or other merit badges may not count toward the Cooking merit badge. You must not repeat any menus for meals actually prepared or cooked in requirements 4, 5, and 6.

But if these meals are not being used to fulfill the rank requirements, then they could potentially count towards the Cooking MB requirements.