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5thGenTexan

Archery Lawsuit Against BSA

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There was a "Vendor" selling archery gear???   At a Scout event?  Totally against everything I was taught to teach as a Range Safety Officer.  "No personal gear allowed on the Scout Range." "No archery done OFF the official range, without the RSO oversight." Two and a half years later? 

Ach mein gott…. 

 

Edited by SSScout

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7 minutes ago, SSScout said:

There was a "Vendor" selling archery gear???   At a Scout event?  Totally against everything I was taught to teach as a Range Safety Officer.  "No personal gear allowed on the Scout Range." "No archery done OFF the official range, without the RSO oversight." Two and a half years later? 

Ach mein gott…. 

 

They arent saying what the event was.  We recently had a Council event where vendors were present, units were allowed to set up booths, etc.  Maybe this event was the same sort of thing and there was no range of any kind set up.  In that case a Scout bought something and used it where he knew that he shouldnt have 

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17 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Any other info on this?   I am not sure how its the fault of the BSA that a Scout did something stupid with something he bought at an event.  I understand the BSA has deeper pockets than an individual Scout.

 

https://www.apnews.com/3ea0abd816fd439fbdfa0be7afc79484

Well, about 8 years ago or so, I was at a local OA sponsored event that had outside vendors.  They sold bows.  Some scouts bought the bows, and were shooting them on the lawn in front of the dining hall.  They were shooting them towards the dining hall, and there were people in that area (including me).  I   asked them to stop, they did, but it just shows the lack of common sense sometimes present in scout aged kids. 

17 hours ago, SSScout said:

There was a "Vendor" selling archery gear???   At a Scout event?  Totally against everything I was taught to teach as a Range Safety Officer.  "No personal gear allowed on the Scout Range." "No archery done OFF the official range, without the RSO oversight." Two and a half years later? 

Ach mein gott…. 

 

Technically, the boys were probably not allowed to use the gear at the event. 

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22 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Any other info on this?   I am not sure how its the fault of the BSA that a Scout did something stupid with something he bought at an event.  I understand the BSA has deeper pockets than an individual Scout.

 

https://www.apnews.com/3ea0abd816fd439fbdfa0be7afc79484

I wasn't there, but the date coincides with an annual Mountain Man Rendezvous. As is typical, they had knife throwing, archery, black powder rifle/shotgun, etc. At least for this year's event, the vendors were not allowed to sell projectile toys or bows. I don't know about 2016.

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On 12/19/2018 at 3:57 PM, LVAllen said:

I wasn't there, but the date coincides with an annual Mountain Man Rendezvous. As is typical, they had knife throwing, archery, black powder rifle/shotgun, etc. At least for this year's event, the vendors were not allowed to sell projectile toys or bows. I don't know about 2016.

Perhaps the 2016 event is what precipitated the change in policy...

From the kids' perspective, what's the point of buying a bow if you can't shoot it?

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Posted (edited)

Scouting events shouldn't be used to promote gear.  I've taught certain Scout courses, to adults mostly, where we bring samples of what we own and give "pros" and "cons" to certain equipment but we don't have a vested monetary interest in what others will decide to buy.   I'm not aware of any vendors at scouting events that I've attended other than those having a general store at summer camp and vending machines with logos.

We don't want to go "Mar-a-Lago" like or "Bedmister" like and mix scouting with for personal profit motive in our actions.   We already have enough of that in our country today (sorry for getting on my soapbox).

Edited by acco40

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This is heavy on the "deep pockets" theme.  Is the family suing the vendor?  Are they suing the family of the youth that is alleged to have shot the arrow?  

As long as we allow our society to be one of uncontrolled lawsuits and lack of personal responsibility we will see this.  Every day almost I see lawyers advertising on TV about this or that; "did you have an accident?  You have rights, and we can help you."  "There is a class action lawsuit and you may be able to get some of the action.  Call us now before you miss out."  Papers and magazines very often have ads for "legal" representation for the unfair or awful thing that happened to you, even if the responsible party took responsibility or insurance covered it without a fight.  Unless we, as a country, have the backbone to put on the brakes, it will simply continue to get worse.  But I would not hold your breath, as ego and money are stronger much of the time than personal ethics and responsibility for our own actions.

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20 hours ago, acco40 said:

Scouting events shouldn't be used to promote gear.  I've taught certain Scout courses, to adults mostly, where we bring samples of what we own and give "pros" and "cons" to certain equipment but we don't have a vested monetary interest in what others will decide to buy.   I'm not aware of any vendors at scouting events that I've attended other than those having a general store at summer camp and vending machines with logos.

We don't want to go "Mar-a-Lago" like or "Bedmister" like and mix scouting with for personal profit motive in our actions.   We already have enough of that in our country today (sorry for getting on my soapbox).

 

21 hours ago, acco40 said:

Scouting events shouldn't be used to promote gear.  I've taught certain Scout courses, to adults mostly, where we bring samples of what we own and give "pros" and "cons" to certain equipment but we don't have a vested monetary interest in what others will decide to buy.   I'm not aware of any vendors at scouting events that I've attended other than those having a general store at summer camp and vending machines with logos.

We don't want to go "Mar-a-Lago" like or "Bedmister" like and mix scouting with for personal profit motive in our actions.   We already have enough of that in our country today (sorry for getting on my soapbox).

The vendors at Mountain Man Rendezvous are mainly food & beverage. You've also got knife vendors (must have a Totin' Chip on your person to purchase anything), homemade fire-starters, silversmiths, etc. It's in keeping with the theme of a Mountain Main Rendezvous in which mountain men came down for a little bit of trading, a little bit of fun, and a little bit of other stuff. The scouts are there for the shooting, archery, atlatl throwing, skills contests, and for the fun. Also for the bottled root beer (They sell you a bottle, and provide free refills. We had scouts keep their bottles from years past solely for the purpose of getting this root beer, which apparently is tasty).

20 hours ago, skeptic said:

This is heavy on the "deep pockets" theme.  Is the family suing the vendor?  Are they suing the family of the youth that is alleged to have shot the arrow?  

As long as we allow our society to be one of uncontrolled lawsuits and lack of personal responsibility we will see this.  Every day almost I see lawyers advertising on TV about this or that; "did you have an accident?  You have rights, and we can help you."  "There is a class action lawsuit and you may be able to get some of the action.  Call us now before you miss out."  Papers and magazines very often have ads for "legal" representation for the unfair or awful thing that happened to you, even if the responsible party took responsibility or insurance covered it without a fight.  Unless we, as a country, have the backbone to put on the brakes, it will simply continue to get worse.  But I would not hold your breath, as ego and money are stronger much of the time than personal ethics and responsibility for our own actions.

The family has not filed a lawsuit naming the vendor, the youth, the SMs of either unit. Just the council and BSA. The mention a SM, but don't include him as a defendant. It's possible they have already settled with other parties before filing a suit. Of course, they are also alleging $270,000 in current medical expenses, including an prosthetic eye. Let's not forget that there are serious injuries here. I'm not sure how raising "personal responsibility" would have prevented the Scout's injuries. Do you think he should bear the responsibility for losing an eye?

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Sometimes it is the insurance company who is actually doing the suing. Many insurance companies will have provisions in their policies allowing them to sue, in the policy holders name, to recover medical costs they paid out.

We had this happen at our church. Someone slipped and was injured on some ice. The insurance company sued the church to recover the health costs they paid out. The pastor was very upset/hurt that a long-time parishioner would sue the parish, until one of the parish council members explained to him how it works.

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I will just that I was a Range Officer for Cubs for about 3 years once.  It is a very important role but one I don't want to do again. It was so stressful and mentally exhausting for me.

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