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Eagle94-A1

Why Can't Adults Trust the Scouts

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Really frustrating chat with one of the ASMs. He wants to go out an buy a bunch of tents without any input from the Scouts. He says that the Scouts don't have any idea what to look for, including those who have been in the troop a while and/or having camping MB. They will only pick "what looks cool." Futher he commented on how if they are asked to do something, they will do a poor job of doing the research, and it will take 6 months to get the stuff ordered. This is based upon one Scout's research into stoves, and after 6 months we are now getting them.

I could not reply as I had to get back to work. But A) the Scout was limited to one company's models and he came up with 2 for the troop to pick, and B) the reason I was told we waited for the stoves is because the SM wanted a troop debit card, and with the death of the primary on the checking account, everything is on hold until things get cleared. The ASM bought the stoves on his CC and got reinbursed, which is how things had been done in the past.

But just the lack of faith in the Scouts is disturbing. I admit the Scouts are not doing things like my peers back in the day did. But we also didn't have adults jumping in and taking over when things are not going the way the adults expect them.

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Sounds like they should take a trip to the sporting goods store to talk about tents.  The ASM and the Quartermaster and SM/parents.  It should be scout led and adult guided if there are any questions or issues that the scouts didn't think of.

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6 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

...and in the end, scouts will buy and bring their own tent/hammock/bivouac, :blink:

Not in our troop or state....  Our troop uses troop tents for the youth and most campgrounds here do not allow hammocks.  I hope you can get the scouts driving the process of selection and ordering  with Adult help.

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11 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

...and in the end, scouts will buy and bring their own tent/hammock/bivouac, :blink:

 

While adults can hammock, Scouts cannot. Don't ask as I am against the policy. As for your own tents, that is allowed. It's interesting to note that those who bring their own, usually have hte most rules for those who sleep in the tent with them. ;)

 

9 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Sounds like they should take a trip to the sporting goods store to talk about tents.  The ASM and the Quartermaster and SM/parents.  It should be scout led and adult guided if there are any questions or issues that the scouts didn't think of.

Sadly we are in the middle of nowhere, and it would take an hour in either direction to get to a decent outfitter. 

The thing is, the Scouts do know what to look for in a tent. Especially the older ones who have their own tents, which are usually better quality than the Scout ones. And because they bought them, they take better care of them.

 

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Getting back to the subject at hand. Which part of boy-led is this ASM not getting? If the Troop needs new tents, the Scouts should figure out what the proper tents are and then report back to the purchasing authority. If they need some direction on research, there are many online sources of information, or they could visit a large outdoor retailer (the equipment guys at REI really seem to know their stuff). If they are given some hints, they are less likely to fail at this. If they do fail, they will learn something along the way. Isn't that part of the point of Scouting? 

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I have some old versions of Boys Life which had patterns and directions for making your own tent. Of course if mom is sewing on their patches, then this would be a stretch. So much for boys learning to do on their own.

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1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

But just the lack of faith in the Scouts is disturbing. I admit the Scouts are not doing things like my peers back in the day did. But we also didn't have adults jumping in and taking over when things are not going the way the adults expect them.

Is this the same hands-on ASM you have spoken of previously? If so, I guess no one is surprised.

If not, it really does seem like you have a few of these types, no? Not sure what you can do other than to 1) continue to support the PLC and SM, and 2) continue to play devil's advocate about why adults shouldn't step in.

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1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I'm impressed if any of the moms still KNOW how to sew on any patches...most of ours farm them out to a local shop. I do mine...you can tell because they are crooked and fall off sometimes.

I'd love to see some scans of the those patterns!

 

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Wow, it's getting really interesting. Apparently tents have been ordered and the Scouts had no input in the decision. BUT the SM will tell the SPL and PLC to do research new tents, limiting them to two companies to look at.

 

And yes, it's Gunship doing all this.

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4 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

We no longer have Troop tents...no one took good enough care of them.

This.

If the tent is not their own, our Scouts take no particular care in how it is used, maintained and stored. It is too frustrating to see troop funds abused in this way, so we eliminated troop tents. Most of our Scouting families are well-equipped with their own camping gear, so it really has not been a problem.

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10 minutes ago, Chisos said:

So, the PLC is being asked for input *after* the decision was made?

That is correct.

 

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1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

That is correct.

 

Ouch.  That's one of the biggest mis-steps a "leader" can do...

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