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T2Eagle

To Report or Not Report YPT Violation

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One jump we are making is assuming that reporting the YPT violation automatically means everybody will be aware of it. I don't think that naturally follows. 

1. Remind Scouter about YPT rules and how he violated privacy of youth. Remind leader that YPT also protects adults and our reputations as much as it protects Kids from abuse. 

2. Report YPT violation to DE and CO. Clearly explain situation. This doesn't necessarily mean the volunteer will be removed from Scouting, it's a fairly innocent mistake as far as we know.

  • I know I've physically relocated my tent at night to get away from snorezillas. I bring earplugs on every trip, but some snorers can be very loud. 

3. Keep an eye on this leader in the future, (and really lets be honest, we shouldn't be overly trusting in general.) 

 

If this was my unit, I'd report it. I fully recognize that there can be some reputation risk to the leader, but I think that can be minimized as long as the SM, CC, COR and DE keep information on a need to know basis. 

Edited by Sentinel947

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On my Camino de Santiago trek three years ago, we sojourned in an alberge (hostel) which, like most, did not segregate the genders (!) .  My buddy Rick bedded down in a lower bunk, I had to take a different "stack" upper.  As always, the room was full.  Rick sometimes (not always) gave forth with rafter rattling snoring when on his back.   He was aware of this. 

Sometime in the night,  I awoke to his music.  I over heard some Deutscher volk  (there was a bicycle club in with us) outloud mention bodily harm to the "volcano one".   I jumped down, went over and woke up RIck, who awoke with a start, but willingly turned on his side and went back to sleep.  No more snores.  "Danke, freunde."   

I hope the other Scouter was apprised of his problem...  

Edited by SSScout

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Silly YP police wonder why reasonable adult volunteers are hard to keep.

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Agree with Sentinel.  You have an obligation to report it, but keep it low key, and at the same time tell the DE what you have done to correct it.  There was no ill intent, and the rules have been reinforced with all troop leadership.  Perhaps have a refresher training class at your next Committee meeting.  We, too have done the blanket thing to divide the room...this was at a Council camp in cabins that were built in the 40s.  It was no big deal to string a rope across the room and hang tarps.  

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I think reporting in this case could be more about protecting the leader vs really a concern that something nefarious occurred.  As the leaders of this Troop created separate sleeping areas and s leader left the area to sleep with the youth he did open himself up to possible accusations.  What if one of the youth accuses him of crawling in his bunk during   that night six months from now?  Now you have a situation where an adult has clearly been the only adult sleeping in an area with youth.  That would be bit of a mess.  

Hell, if I did this I would send a report to my COR and DE.  I’d explain what and why it happened and ask them to fully investigate.  They should follow up with the other leaders and youth, see nothing else occurred, have me retrained in YPT, let the parents know and move on.  I’d apologize to the scouts and explain YPT and how it protects both l leaders and youth. If I were a scout and the leader was a good guy, I’d be impressed with his sense of accountability and feel YPT is way overly sensitive.  It should not be a black mark against his record (unless he repeatedly violates it) and it should show that he treats protecting youth seriously.

All of this assumes nothing else happened.  Almost no one on this forum know the guy or if he is a pedophile.  Pedophiles exist, they aren’t always apparent and the only way to truly protect youth is to strictly enforce YPT.  Yes, YPT can be a burden and our society jumps from accusations to guilt immediately; however, too long has BSA and leaders ignored situations that but youth at risk of perverts.  If reporting a borderline YPT violation helps ensure consistent and rigorous enforcement and thus Scouts from being assaulted then I’m all for it and any volunteer of youth should be as well.

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7 hours ago, JoeBob said:

Silly YP police wonder why reasonable adult volunteers are hard to keep.

Yes, the thread is kind of scary. I have in my scouting career been involved with removing several adults  at both the Cub and Troop levels because risk toward the scouts. I'm not sure what advice to give because times have changed just in the last 15 years.  Start by at least talking with the adult first. But, anyone who doesn't think the simple steps being suggested here won't give the adult a black eye is fooling themselves. I would be very surprised he would come back. Would you?

I hate this part of unit responsibility. I have had many sleepless nights over the hard choices we have to make in keeping the program running strong and safe. I am sorry for all of you scouters who have to deal with these things. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. 

Barry

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This is why training parents and leaders is so important. A trained leader should know better, as there are always other options (car, grabbing another leader and BOTH sleeping in the main hall in a corner near the adult room, etc.).

Truly a tough question. It could be an honest mistake where nothing happened. But as the events of the last month or so are showing us, what if something did happen and it comes out later?

@T2Eagle, not sure you can convey enough information for any of us to really get a sense for how innocent of a mistake (or how bad it may really look) this really is. I agree with @Stosh to be cautious because this is a BIG issue. But I would seek advice from those other leaders who were around to see what they think.

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Thanks for all the replies. 

I wish I had done a better job of conveying the story.  I do not think this was any kind of YPT violation that needed to be reported, but I did think it was an interesting example of when issues that sound black and white become more gray.

As I said, he dragged his mattress out of our room and was just outside the door.  I pretty much tripped over him when I got up.  His presence in the far corner of a large room with six other scouts was no more nefarious than my presence would have been as I passed through to use the rest room and then made coffee in the kitchen area that was the other corner of the same room ---all before the scouts woke up.

As he said, smothering Scouter Log Sawyer would probably have been a bigger violation, and more seriously and importantly he wanted to make sure he got at least a couple hours sleep so he could safely drive home later that morning.

The heart of YPT is no one-on-one contact, and that was never violated, and given the real safety concern of having a competent driver (motor vehicle travel still being the biggest safety risk to scouts and scouters) I feel confident about there being no actual violation to report.

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25 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

The heart of YPT is no one-on-one contact, and that was never violated, and given the real safety concern of having a competent driver (motor vehicle travel still being the biggest safety risk to scouts and scouters) I feel confident about there being no actual violation to report.

So you have decided not to report it?

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18 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

So you have decided not to report it?

Yes,  more accurately, I don't believe there was a violation to report.

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1 minute ago, T2Eagle said:

Yes,  more accurately, I don't believe there was a violation to report.

Given the second bit of detail, I'd agree. Well done.

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49 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Given the second bit of detail, I'd agree. Well done.

I agree as well. Others may had of pictured it as he moved right next to scout bunks.

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Thank you, @T2Eagle, for bringing up this topic.  It has been a good and interesting discussion.  We've determined that Youth Protection Training is important for both the youth and adults, yet it is clear there are fuzzy areas where it seems to be a judgement call.  If you feel you'd like to know more about the BSA's YPT or have questions or desire clarifications, it would be wise to contact your District Executive.  

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