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WisconsinMomma

What is quality control in Scouting

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1 hour ago, WisconsinMomma said:

 There are plenty of opportunities in life to learn and practice conflict resolution.  It's not like this was the only moment in time when they'll ever have the chance.  

True, but there is a difference between a friendly practical joke and hazing. Sadly hazing has become a pop culture trigger word to imply hostile intent when in reality it was just the opposite. The intent of the person who acted is just as important as the response of the person who was on the other end. It is much easier to teach the values of the Oath and Law when intent of the actions are measure, as apposed to the method of the actions.

Another example of using politically correct trigger words inappropriately is the BSA statement that holding a scout up-side-down during an awards ceremony was a form of hazing. National put that in the Guide to Safe Scouting Guide for pete sake for liability purposes. Rest assured it was the Cubs who were the most upset by the restriction. Have we as a culture come to a point where hostile threats are the only way to control behavior? That is not scouting, but I fear that is becoming the way of the BSA when that is the only way adult leaders react to scout behavior.

Barry

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@WisconsinMomma, while there are plenty of opportunities for conflict resolution, why waste this one? I mean, learning how to do a practical joke when you're 13 and among people that understand how to do practical jokes is a lot better than waiting until you're in a frat and people are forcing you to drink shots. This may sound extreme but a lot of kids do not have any opportunity to screw up before they're sent off to college where they suddenly have much more freedom and no experience on how to deal with it.

This is the whole point. The adults telling the scouts not to do something because it might go bad is not at all the same as the scouts figuring it out on their own. Yes, snow shoeing in an avalanche zone is not the place to let them learn the hard way. But practical jokes are fine. The scouts will eventually forget what the adults said. They will not forget the time they messed up and had to deal with the consequences.

When I was a scout we were sent off looking for smoke shifters and sky hooks. That is now called hazing or bullying. It is neither. Sure, it could go bad but if done right It is an opportunity for the younger scouts to learn how to take some discomfort with a smile, the older scouts to learn how to watch for where the line is on each scout, the adults to bite their tongues, and everyone to have some fun.

I'm sorry if I seem to be going on about this, but it seems that some of the best lessons that scouts could learn about dealing with other people are being taken off the table. They can also be fun.

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On 11/29/2017 at 1:33 PM, cocomax said:

The new classroom style of wood badge with its power point slides,  flip charts,  movies and focus on learning to make presentations may have been carried from wood badge into scouting, it is most visible in the new way camporees are run now.  Many camporees activities consist of presentation stations were the boys sit on folding chairs and watch a flip chart presentation on, water safety, plant ID, how to make a survival kit,  and wilderness survival. Patrols are awarded points for paying attention and interacting in an active manor with the teacher.   The boys in my troop find camporees based mainly on flip chart presentations boring and avoid them.  Maybe it is not the fault of wood badge, I don't honestly know, I do know all the scouters running these new style camporees in my area are highly focused on wood badge. Maybe wood badge is just a reflection of the push to turn scouting into a more school like atmosphere.  I don't like it myself, I think scouting should be about getting out and doing things and having fun and learning and growing as a person while having fun with your close friends.   

  

How depressing. I though Camporees were bad in my district a few years ago.  

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6 hours ago, Eagledad said:

holding a scout up-side-down during an awards ceremony was a form of hazing.

Holding a scout upside down during an awards ceremony????

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14 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Holding a scout upside down during an awards ceremony????

I remember it as a new Cub.  They hold you upside down and pin the Bobcat pin on upside right.  When you have done your first Good Turn, then the Cub turns it right-side up. 

After 35 years of intensive therapy, I turned out okay.

Edited by RememberSchiff
One s in as
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Around here, we were still spinning Bobcats about 10-15 years ago.  No QC issues, heads stayed attached.

Edited by RememberSchiff
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3 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Stosh, what decade was that? 

I found an article on Bobwhite Blather:
https://bobwhiteblather.com/stop-flipping-them/

I'm glad that packs aren't doing it anymore.  

 

I remember it as one of the most fun parts of getting the badge. And a good intro into Scouting. Pride AND fun at the same time when getting recognized?

This was in the 70's. As with most things fun, it's in how you approach and present it.

We loved it. Dads would hold us upside down, Moms would pin it on quickly, everybody giggling. Bonus: when we looked down at our pocket, we could see it from the regular perspective, oriented to us.

Those who consider it hazing or abuse obviously aren't doing it or presenting it right. Those who consider it "adding to the requirements" are wrong, it was awarded without anything extra being required, it was just the manner it which it was presented. If it was 'mandated' by leaders, they had the wrong mindset. If a kid didn't want it, no biggie, it wasn't done. I can only remember once when someone didn't want to be upside down. No biggie, Mom tried to be as upside down as possible while pinning it on, which was even more entertaining. Bet you can't guess who wanted to be upside down after that.

Another example of an innocuous item being transformed into something verboten. Much hulabaloo over nothing, IMO.

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1 hour ago, WisconsinMomma said:

How about those who prefer leaders keep their hands off the kids?  Given the number of kids with sensory issues, and the number of kids who aren't participating with two parents, etc.   I don't see any value in the custom. 

Forest for the trees. Adults who don’t have a childhood Scouting experience are changing the program. 

The touching taboo of today’s generation can’t understand how it calms confusion, soothes anger, and encourages confidence. It’s now viewed as inappropriate acts with indecent intentions. Still, I know of nothing better to calm the out of control ADD Scout than a gentle touch on the shoulder. 

I cant help but feel that future leaders will struggle to know the satisfaction of helping a boy grow to be a better person. 

Barry

 

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Yes, the program has changed......

But so have the traditions.

This reminds me of someone in a small town telling me about the oldest house in town.  I'm a wee bit of a history buff.  I went to the address and there stood a standard ranch style house.  It looked just like everything else on the block.  Nothing unique about it.....  except when one went inside, the living room was rather unique.  It was the 4 walls and floor of the original log home that stood on that spot.

It would be a shame to sheet rock the living room walls and carpet the floors.  As times change, maybe that will become the new norm for the "oldest house in town".

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1 hour ago, David CO said:

That is a very good point, and I think it deserves more discussion.

 

Please discuss then. Who said leaders HAD to put their hands on Scouts for this?

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Some confusion here, the topic here is Quality Control in Scouting. I split off some responses to a new touchy topic :), and deleted some confused replies, for lack of a better description.

 

Edited by RememberSchiff

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"When I was a scout we were sent off looking for smoke shifters and sky hooks. That is now called hazing or bullying. It is neither. Sure, it could go bad but if done right It is an opportunity for the younger scouts to learn how to take some discomfort with a smile, the older scouts to learn how to watch for where the line is on each scout, the adults to bite their tongues, and everyone to have some fun."

 

For years, T22 took sky hooks, smoke shifters (Acme Universal Abishifter). elbow grease, (USP), snipe, and a couplr of other things of that ilk to every camporee.  The joke was on the jokers when the newbies returned, item(s) in hand.

 

"Hazing"?  That would be rechartering.

 

"Bullying"?  _________________________________________

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34 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

"When I was a scout we were sent off looking for smoke shifters and sky hooks. That is now called hazing or bullying. It is neither. Sure, it could go bad but if done right It is an opportunity for the younger scouts to learn how to take some discomfort with a smile, the older scouts to learn how to watch for where the line is on each scout, the adults to bite their tongues, and everyone to have some fun."

 

For years, T22 took sky hooks, smoke shifters (Acme Universal Abishifter). elbow grease, (USP), snipe, and a couplr of other things of that ilk to every camporee.  The joke was on the jokers when the newbies returned, item(s) in hand.

 

"Hazing"?  That would be rechartering.

 

"Bullying"?  _________________________________________

I always had a smoke-shifter and sky hook available for any scout that happened along.  :)  Snipes?  They can be found in most bird books.

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