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John-in-KC

OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

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I can tell you I've been in scouting for 9 years, den leader, cubmaster and den leader at the same time, asst scout master and committee chair and in my troop and pack and for a couple years I was a leader in both, never once did I have a parent say that they wished their daughter could be in boy scouts. Never once. until last week and the only person who told me they thought this was a great idea was one where their son quit scouts in the 3rd grade and her daughter is currently in college. Yes I care about reaching more youth. More youth boys because boy scouts is about teaching boys. In fact I have multiple parents that have boys and girls and let out a big "UGH" when they learned of this change. They don't want it either. Do I think everything national does is bad..No, I don't...Do I trust that they are looking out for the best interest of the kids. Nope I don't believe that either. Will this change work? Yeah it will work, it has to work. The volunteer leaders have zero choice. Make it work or quit. Will I opt to quit? I can't answer that question right now. If they keep troops all girls or all boys, I will stay. If they become co-ed at the boy scout level...Adios, I'm outta here. Not every volunteer is cut out to do every job and I know what my limits are. I have a large issue with inefficiency and honesty. And to be honest myself I'm just tired of carrying the ball, I'm tired of all the hours and I'm tired of the lack of help, I'm tired of most of my free time being dedicated to this organization, this is the last straw. As volunteer when national decides to double the weight of the ball, it's time for me to give them their ball back and walk quietly into sunset.

Just because you didn't hear it, doesn't mean it wasn't there.  I never said anything to any of our leaders until this week, either, despite wishing my daughter could have the experiences her brothers will with Boy Scouts.  She couldn't, so what was the point?  Sure, we could have made noise about it and complained that it wasn't fair, but it's like my gruff old Command Master Chief dad used to say (repeatedly), "Life's not fair.  Move on." 

 

My involvement with scouts right now is limited to awards chairperson for Cub Scouts, though I've volunteered to help with Venturers next year when my daughter joins, and to head up this transition at the Boy Scout level, and that help has been accepted.  Last year it was Blue and Gold chair.  Still, I get how tiring it is.  (I also run the concession stand for Police Athletic League football for our town, and am on two committees at our elementary school.)  What I don't get is walking away.  Even if you're adamantly against this decision, do the boys you've worked with not still deserve your time and experience?  (Not you, specifically, but all the leaders I've heard over the last few days who say they're going to walk.)  The entire reason I wanted my daughter to have the same experiences is because I see how much the boys in scouting have benefitted from it.  It's not in anyone's interest to let that be lost.  I'll be doing my best to help our troop continue to provide the same amazing opportunities they always have.  

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B.P. had to deal with it almost from the start.  So he turned to Olave and asked her to come up with something.  That something, of course, was the Girl Guides and it eventually folded into the British Scouting program, just as a large percentage of other worldwide Scouting groups have joined the genders in some manner.

Just to pick up on this B.P. had his sister, Agnes, help set up the Girl Guides and after he married Olave she eventually took over as Chief Guide. Girl Guides did not eventually fold into the British Scouting Programme, Guides still exists completely separately to Scouts. The Scout Association admitted girls whilst the Guides did not and do not admit boys and did not merge with the Scouts in any way, in fact there are more Guides in the Uk than there are Scouts despite Scouts being open to both genders.

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Just to pick up on this B.P. had his sister, Agnes, help set up the Girl Guides and after he married Olave she eventually took over as Chief Guide. Girl Guides did not eventually fold into the British Scouting Programme, Guides still exists completely separately to Scouts. The Scout Association admitted girls whilst the Guides did not and do not admit boys and did not merge with the Scouts in any way, in fact there are more Guides in the Uk than there are Scouts despite Scouts being open to both genders.

Thank you for the clarification.  Of course, BP initially turned to his sister, then it went along the line you note.  Still, the girl issue, as well as the young boy issue, were dealt with by BP early on.  Here in the U.S. we did not get official younger boy programming until the early 30's, though there were attempts at local levels earlier.

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This is a 40 minute video covering the gender integration decision. It is worth your watch.

My contempt for Michael Sarbaugh has increased 10x by watching this video.

 

He portrays the local council meetings and surveys as being neutral on the girl topic - they were just collecting opinions. That is 100% BS. Anyone who attended the meetings and completed the surveys knows for a fact that the discussions and questions were unbelievably biased to result in a preordained response (i.e. to accept girls).

 

Michael insists the survey responses indicated 80-90 percent support for girls in Scouting, so there was no reason to conduct broader surveys. That is 100% BS, but even if true that is only because of the leading questions and the slanted way they were worded. The truth of the matter is that the only 11,000 people out of millions were actually surveyed, and very few of those surveyed were experienced Scouters who know how the program works on the inside. In our unit, I know of no adults (zero percent) who are in favor of this change.

 

Michael insists that BSA has been transparent through the entire process, but then tries to justify all the secrecy surrounding the announcement because advance notice to Council Executives and others would jeopardize their predetermined outcome (that alone is an admission that the decision lacked popular support). Therefore, they just ramrodded it through - to hell with the opposition and any resulting fallout.

 

My decision to resign from Scouting has only been reinforced after watching this video. Michael Sarbaugh is one of the worst examples of dishonest, disillusion leadership I can imagine in a CEO.

Edited by gblotter
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@@gblotter, thanks for all you've done for the boys. If you wind up landing in a boys club that suits your aspirations, drop a line here and let us know how it's going.

Edited by qwazse

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Summer camp seems to be the biggest problem that the local option crowd is either ignoring or unaware of. Regardless of your own troop's policy, you're going to be affected.

Attending a council camp used to mean a week away from girls, electronics, and other distractions, now you only get this if you hold your own camp.

 We have seen girls at summer camps both on staff and as attendees for the past few years.

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Sure it already happens, but is it widespread? And intentional? In the rush to award girls the rank of Eagle Scout, there's going to be a taint of "her dad's the SM, her mom's the CC, and mom and dad were MBCs for most of the Eagle-required MBs."

 

I am already hearing from long-time district advancement chairs who are worried.

 

The number of Eagle mills out there is significant.  Merit badges get handed out like candy at many camps and troops.  We see it very often - Scouts earing a merit badge at camp that has requirements that clearly could not have been completed.

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 We have seen girls at summer camps both on staff and as attendees for the past few years.

 

Girls were on camp staff when I was at summer camps as a kid in the 90s. It's certainly nothing new. I went to a camporee this weekend, in a staff of about a dozen probably 4 were girls/women. 

 

I heard the statistic recently that as many as half of scout leaders are women. 

 

Girls are always in attendance and on staff in noticable numbers at the larger events, jambo, etc. 

 

Girls have featured prominently in BSA literature, marketing materials, advertising, etc., to promote a family-friendly program and environment. 

 

If the argument is that the BSA was a place to avoid the female gender entirely, that hasn't really been the case in a long time. 

Edited by EmberMike

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@@John-in-KC thank you for posting the video. https://livestream.com/bsa/nationalcouncil/videos/164161163

 

1) I think he is telling some tall tales.  Cub Scouts has not been 'Family oriented" for "generations" It only goes back about 20 - 25 years.

I was a cub in the 70s and my brothers were cubs in the 60s, there was less camping but when we did it was the entire family including Moms and sisters.

 

2) While I have not been to PTC, I really do not think somoen would take there granddaughter there. I could be wrong on that.

My wife and son went to PTC and there were plenty of girls in the family programs, I am sure some of them were someone's grandaughter

 

3) he's stated that the SEs were behind him. Then why was mine shocked?  I never trust what the SEs tell me, well at least ours.

 

4) He talked about the townhalls and surveys. What he didn't mention was A) you tolded the SEs to do these townhalls  the day before jamboree starts, which many attend  B) and give a  a one month period for council to do the town hall meetings IN WHICH  PART OF THAT TIME IS DURING THE JAMBOREE! ( emphasis.) Yes, my SE was extremely ticked off about that one.  Our town hall was after Jambo, but this was a very frequent topic at Jambo.

 

5) Only way to take the survey was to get to the townhalls, and there were not given enough time. only 11000 folks participated.  That is sad and should have been done better.

 

6) says the survey questions were neutral. To quote Col. Potter,  " HORSEHOCKEY!" The were designed to get a specific response: allow girls in Boy Scouts.   Agree, a survey question is NEVER neutral.

 

Ok I can't take it. I can't finish it/

It is truly unfortunate Scouters feel the need to leave, the program is too important to abandon, why not work to ensure the program continues to serve the youth of America now just include the girls.

 

I felt a response was warranted. 

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2) While I have not been to PTC, I really do not think somoen would take there granddaughter there. I could be wrong on that.

My wife and son went to PTC and there were plenty of girls in the family programs, I am sure some of them were someone's grandaughter

 

I have been to PTC twice.  For young men and women over 14, they can take a 5.5 day trek.  There are programs for each Scouting age bracket, as well as support for wee ones under the Scouting age.

 

For the non-Scouter adult spouses, there are trips to Santa Fe, Taos, Las Vegas, NM ... I knew one group who did an overnight to Albuquerque.

 

We now return you to the regularly scheduled topic.

Edited by John-in-KC
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Obviously this is an issue where men and women of sincerity and integrity can disagree; can we all strive to be more scoutlike in our communications? Myself included.

 

This is not nearly so obvious to those of us on the losing side. It is a lot like holding someone up at gun point and then asking them to politely disagree on who owns the contents of their wallet.

 

I do agree that we should not use foul or profane language. 

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This is not nearly so obvious to those of us on the losing side. It is a lot like holding someone up at gun point and then asking them to politely disagree on who owns the contents of their wallet.

 

Even if I thought that this was a valid analogy (which I do not), the "robber" in this scenario is BSA National, not anyone in this forum. (Well, we do have one regular poster who has identified himself as the national director of health and safety, but he has posted about this subject maybe once, and the post that I recall did not express an opinion on the subject, and presumably he was not at the center of the decision-making process on this subject if he was involved at all.)  None of us here made this decision.  Some of us were among the thousands who participated in a survey - some of us, including me, "without authorization", but if you put something on the Internet, somebody is going to find it -  but that's it.  We all have our opinions, which seem to cover the entire spectrum of possibilities on this subject.  What Tampa Turtle said is:  "Obviously this is an issue where men and women of sincerity and integrity can disagree", and I agree with that statement.  If a person disagreed with it, that would suggest (to me, at least) that they believe that people with a different viewpoint are part of some sort of nefarious cabal with ulterior motives. (David, you didn't say that, but I think the "robber" analogy suggests something along those lines.) I don't see that here.  I just see people who sincerely hold different views.

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David CO, I get ya. I consider myself on the 'losing' side on this one. We have our first post-announcement Troop meeting tonight and I get to be the official announcer of the (scarce) details to the boys. Could be interesting. 

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Out of curiosity, I just did a quick Google and came across the announcement of his appointment here.

 

The most amusing comment was:

I can’t help but feel so many of our problems with youth today can be traced back to someone deciding we actually need a “Bachelor’s Degree in Youth Agency Administration.â€

 

Pretty much hits the nail on the head.

 

Also noticed he was in charge of HR. When have you ever encountered anyone in HR you felt you could trust? Make no mistake, HR is more invested in the interests of the corporate organization than those of the individual. It appears he is carrying on that tradition.

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