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Gwaihir

Cub Scout Outdoor Activity Award

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Question concerning this award. 

 

Requirement 1 states cubs need to either attend Day Camp, or Resident Camp. 

 

Resident camp is defined as any council run themed camp that ranges from 2 to 5 days.  

 

We have a Cubelos camp that is 3 days 2 nights, it's run by the district, is themed and structured.  
 

It boggles my mind that this does not count towards this award.  The Day camp that the council runs over the summer is out of the price range most of these kids can swing, but they've hit just about every Camp out otherwise.  Seems to me the spirit of the law and the letter of the law are two very different things. 

 

ie. one is to get boys outdoors and active, the other is to gin up revenue for expensive camp programs.  

 

or am I missing some element here.  Your experience is appreciated.  

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Anything run by your District has to be authorized by your Council since the District is an administrative sub-unit of the Council.  I cannot see how a District event would not count.

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Gwaihir, who told you that Cubelos did not count for the award?

 

What surprises me is that "resident camp" is defined as 2-5 days.  I would have thought "resident camp" would be at least 5 days (4 nights), although a "week" of Boy Scout "resident camp" is generally 6 days (noon-ish Sunday to noon-ish Saturday, so you can count that as 7 days if you want) and 6 nights.

 

But if the Cub Scout definition of "resident camp" is 2-5 days, then a 3-day 2-night Cubelos should count.

 

By the way, I think that in my 15 years in this forum, you are the only person outside of my council I have seen use the word "Cubelos."  Or maybe you are not outside of my council...

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Gwaihir, who told you that Cubelos did not count for the award?

 

What surprises me is that "resident camp" is defined as 2-5 days.  I would have thought "resident camp" would be at least 5 days (4 nights), although a "week" of Boy Scout "resident camp" is generally 6 days (noon-ish Sunday to noon-ish Saturday, so you can count that as 7 days if you want) and 6 nights.

 

But if the Cub Scout definition of "resident camp" is 2-5 days, then a 3-day 2-night Cubelos should count.

 

By the way, I think that in my 15 years in this forum, you are the only person outside of my council I have seen use the word "Cubelos."  Or maybe you are not outside of my council...

 

District Exec told me it didn't count.  I'd love to get a letter from National, or perhaps try Council level first.  I feel like these kids are doing the camping, getting outdoors... doing everything the point of the award is seeking to achieve and then being denied the award on some kind of poorly worded technicality.   Thanks for the insight, I'll see if I can push it up the chain.  

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Challenge the DE to show documentation that it doesn't count.

 

While you wait for the documentation that won't be showing up any time soon, unlike the Summertime Pack Award, the Outdoor Activity Award does not require paperwork in order to pick up awards, so it's not like they're going to verify anything if you just went to the Scout Store and picked up whatever quantity of the award you needed.  And I'm pretty sure they don't verify anything when you submit paperwork (if you even submit paperwork at all) for the Summertime Pack Award.

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District Exec told me it didn't count.  I'd love to get a letter from National, or perhaps try Council level first.  I feel like these kids are doing the camping, getting outdoors... doing everything the point of the award is seeking to achieve and then being denied the award on some kind of poorly worded technicality.   Thanks for the insight, I'll see if I can push it up the chain.  

 

As mentioned, just record it.  District Exec has never reviewed a single award we've submitted, can't imagine they'll start.

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District Exec told me it didn't count.  I'd love to get a letter from National, or perhaps try Council level first.  I feel like these kids are doing the camping, getting outdoors... doing everything the point of the award is seeking to achieve and then being denied the award on some kind of poorly worded technicality.   Thanks for the insight, I'll see if I can push it up the chain.  

 

Kind of interesting because with one exception, I doubt that any of the dozen or so DE's I have met would even know what the requirements were for any Cub Scout rank or award.  (Of course, since I have been out of Cub Scouts for 14 years and they have changed everything so much, I don't know any of them either, but that's not the point.)

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Chartered Org. Rep. and Pack Committee Chair Here,

 

First, I've always been told in District Committee meetings and training sessions that I have attended that the districts are just operational units of the council, so any district event is really a council event.  Whoever does your advancement report, in my Pack that is me, is the one who you need to talk to about the award.  It's a unit level award that goes on an advancement report, it's not like you are awarding a kid the Silver Beaver here.  It's my understanding that ether the Den Leader, the Cub Master or the Pack Advancement chair (which in my Pack falls to me as Committee Chair) can sign off on the award.  I'm reminded of the sign off of the approximately 9000 little videos I had to watch for training, "Keep it Simple, Make it Fun!"  :)

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Whatever "Cubelos" is, it sounds like fun. Definitions "district" and "council" aside, it does not sound like it only runs at night; therefore, IMHO, it would count as a day camp. Instead of being dropped off, they supposedly walk from wherever they've been sleeping to the days activities.

 

Letter of the law.

Done.

 

This is not a question I would even broach with a DE.

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Gwaihir, it occurs to me that in our council at least, the "Cubelos" weekend camping trips are considered "family camping." Maybe they distinguish between "resident camp" and "family camping"? Of course in your council "Cubelos" may mean something different.

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Whatever "Cubelos" is, it sounds like fun. Definitions "district" and "council" aside, it does not sound like it only runs at night; therefore, IMHO, it would count as a day camp. Instead of being dropped off, they supposedly walk from wherever they've been sleeping to the days activities.

 

Letter of the law.

Done.

Well... I am going to take a wild guess here that somewhere in the BSA's confusing and self-contradictory literature there is a definition of Cub Scout Day Camp that says that it runs a full week, so the three days/two nights may not make it.

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Well... I am going to take a wild guess here that somewhere in the BSA's confusing and self-contradictory literature there is a definition of Cub Scout Day Camp that says that it runs a full week, so the three days/two nights may not make it.

 

Nope, I checked that too.  Day Camp according to BSA is considered to run from one to five days.  So even then, it could fall into that category.  I think the distinction between family camp vs day camp/resident camp in this particular instance is splitting hairs so thin it's microscopic.  A poor reason to deny kids an award that would hardly be considered "given away" in any other light. 

Edited by Gwaihir

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Whatever "Cubelos" is, it sounds like fun. Definitions "district" and "council" aside, it does not sound like it only runs at night; therefore, IMHO, it would count as a day camp. Instead of being dropped off, they supposedly walk from wherever they've been sleeping to the days activities.

 

Letter of the law.

Done.

 

This is not a question I would even broach with a DE.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you.

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So I just got a response from DE who consulted with the camping dept.... and the Cub Scout Outdoor Activity Award is officially a pay to play award and the only way it's possible to earn it is to shell out over $300 for their provided Day Camps, or $50 for one of the 4 twilight camps (which is only for Lions and Tigers) they run all year.   Awards and advancement are not "the reason to do Cub Scouting" but when you have camps that fit the bill to a tee, and they're affordable.... I'm perplexed by this.  

 

Will be contacting the "camping department" next. 

Edited by Gwaihir

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Whoa,  $300 for a cub scout day camp??  Ours is about 1/3 of that.  That just over $300 figure can get you a week of Boy Scout Summer Camp, including a whitewater rafting trip around here!

 

Personally, I'd count the other camp, buy the patches and hand them out.  What you're calling "Cubelos" sounds like what we call Resident Camp; it an organized, cub- and Webelos-level camp lasting a few nights.

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