Booted Out Of Scouting For Speaking Up

[wc153221 0]

Hi, thanks for all your comments on this issue. I really do appreciate it. For the record, I have not had a problem with our council exec. in the past. There are things he has done that I did not agree with and I have had group discussions with other leasders about things that they felt were being handled by the council. That said, I have never made a public statement against him in front of a group of scout leaders just because I wanted to rant about the guy. Other leaders that have contacted me that were at this leaders meeting can't recall what what I said. Today I was contact by one of my scouting friends that has contacted our council exec. and the exec. says he has no idea this happened to me and that the order to remove me from scouting came from his office. The scouter that contacted our council exec. believes that I have been setup by our DE for some unknown reason and the DE went to the key 3 in our district to make this happen. I know this sounds very strange but you can't make stuff like this up.

Again, thank all of you for your comments & insight and I wish you the best in your service to scouting.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

I was placed in the middle of s situation like this as a DE way back when. To this day I do not know the entire story as it happened before I got the position. I just had to deal with it, and unfortunately get the blame by some for the matter.

 

One story I heard is that one long term volunteer didn't like the SE and confronted him about some policies regarding the local camp, and got his membership revoked by national.

 

Another story was an accident happened at camp, and when the long term scouter went to find out what's going on in regards to accident insurance and claim, for whatever reason it would not be paid ( One version was the council didn't pay accident insurance for the event, another twas the leader was violating G2SS and insurance would not pay, AGAIN I DO NOT KNOW (emphasis), and the scouter confronted him and got his membership revoked.

 

Like I said, I was kept out of the loop. Heck I didn't find out the Scouter had a restraining order allowing him to continue as a leader until the court case was resolved until he showed up at RT. When I made the call to the SE, that is when he told me about him being a member temporarily.

 

Anyway becasue the BSA is a private organization, it can accept and reject members and leaders was how the court decided.

[Stosh 3452]

Of course no one is really going to come right out and say what the problem is.  Secret little meetings and behind the scene sniping and gossiping go on all the time.  

 

It's too bad we can't hold these people accountable according to the Scout Law and Oath.  

 

If we did hold them accountable about 2/3rds of the registered adults would be let go.  That's never going to happen so an occasional scapegoat is sacrificed to the Great BSA Spirit residing in Irving.

 

We have Youth Protection certification, Why can't we have Adult Protection certification that protects us from other adult leaders?  That would actually make more sense.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Stosh

[Eamonn 61]

Some years back I attended a week long conference for District and Council Commissioners at Philmont. 

I came home thinking that there were a lot of Councils who were in really sad shape and did things that seemed way off base.

At that time we had just removed our SE.

As far as I know we had had followed the rules and done everything by the book.

There I was in New Mexico, one guy who was leading the conference was a SE and before I even sat down he was asking me about what had happened and explain all the consequences.

We (The Council.) Did get a rap on the knuckles in the form of a provisional charter for a year.

The removal of a SE can be done, but it is something that needs a lot of thought and care.

 

I later served on an Area Committee, which was about as interesting as watching paint dry.

While maybe the Commissioners did spend half a minute talking about program, the meetings were all about finance and membership numbers.

At that time the Area Committee served 13 Councils, many of them small and in rural areas, but any that were seen as not meeting the membership or financial expectations were threatened with the provisional charter.

 

I'm not up to date with all or any of the changes that may or might have happened.

But...

A SE can remove a volunteer.

However he or she should have good cause.

Sure if someone is harming others or molesting others, he or she can expel them and in my book should not only be able to do so, but do it ASAP.

 

I can't remember reading if you posted what your position in Scouting is /was??

For the most part in the day to day running of things

The rule is that who ever hired you can fire you.

(Yes I know your a volunteer, but the fire and hire goes well together!)

 

If you work /volunteer at a unit level your "Rights" Are a little different then if you only work / volunteer at the District or Council level.   

While some SE's think that they can walk on water, that isn't always the case.

If you are in a unit, the unit can represent you and if need be the Charter Representative can ask questions at the District meeting or at the Council Annual General Meeting. Of course a phone call from the unit Executive Officer to the SE might be all that is needed. 

No SE in his right mind would be willing to lose a unit just because his feeling were hurt.

 

If you only serve at the District level you need to talk with the District Chairman, the District Commissioner and the DE. Bearing in mind that the SE is the DE's boss or at least the guy at the top for him.

Working thru the back channels these guys can bring pressure on the SE and maybe he will rethink his position.

 

I being Irish /English have never been that good at holding my tongue.

I'm not sure why but I have a knack of giving people nicknames which for some unknown reason always seem to work there way back to the person I've bestowed the name on.

While I have always thought that the name fitted or was funny, sometimes the recipients haven't seen it that way and I've ended up in more then warm water. 

When this has happened I have apologized and moved on.

 

If you can sit down and think about what really happened?

Think if maybe, just maybe? What you said might in any way have caused harm or harmed the Council in any way?

Then you will be the bigger man for phoning the SE and making an apology.

 

We had one SE who while being a not all bad fellow wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. We had our ups and downs.

I however made sure that when he took Woodbadge that his ticket counselor was little old me.

We had some very enlightening little chats.

I hope that you find a way of resolving this as soon as is possible.

Good Luck.

Eamonn

[Gone 435]

And we need districts why again?

[Stosh 3452]

@

 

Keep that up and you're gonna get booted off this forum for speaking up.

 

[desertrat77 1144]

And we need districts why again?

Bad Wolf, let me search my memory...hmm...popcorn sales administration and signing unit rechartering packages?

[Stosh 3452]

Last time I rechartered I had to go to the scout office and pick up my packet, which I filled out and returned to the scout office.  Popcorn was kinda the same way.  Just dealt directly with the office. 

 

The only time I see the SE is at RT where she hands out fliers which are all available on the council website.

 

I see very little need for the districts other than to hand out the annual DAM awards.

 

It does make it easier and less travel for everyone to go to a district RT rather than the longer drive of the council  RT.  It wouldn't make any difference in my district, they don't come to RT anyway.  They don't even show if it's in the same city.

[scoutldr 726]

My advice would be to call the SE and say you've reconsidered and would like to have a meeting over a cup of coffee.  Choose a neutral venue.  Get the facts from the horse's mouth.  If you have violated the Scout Law (friendly, courteous, kind), apologize.  We don't always like the pros but we do have to work with them.  We owe that to the boys.  Complaining to the Executive Board will probably not get you anywhere.  They are usually hand picked by the SE and will do his bidding.

[Gone 435]

Bad Wolf, let me search my memory...hmm...popcorn sales administration and signing unit rechartering packages?

Don't sell popcorn. Sell Christmas trees and wreaths, er, um, holiday greenery. Make four times what we ever did with popcorn. Have an ex CPA and IRS auditor do our paperwork every year...only for council to lose it or screw it up.

 

I think this thread underscores the palace intrigue surrounding district and council.

[Gone 435]

We don't always like the pros but we do have to work with them.

District? Don't need them. Never have. They give nothing and ask for everything.

 

Council? Besides paperwork and the scout shop, maybe NYLT and submitting a form to use a council camp now and then, what do I need from council?

 

I avoid most conflicts by simply not dealing with these bodies...ever.

[SlowDerbyRacer 52]

... At the leader meeting that we had on Friday night I apparently made a statement that I did not like our council exec. I do not remember making that statement but ... ... As a result of that email the council exec. emailed me to have a meeting. I declined because I truely feel that nothing would change as a result of the meeting. ...

 

Take this constructively because that is how it's intended.  On my first read through the above are the statements that stuck with me.  You claim to not remember making the statement, but never actually denied it.  That tells me you actually don't like the person.  Perhaps you are so clouded you can't remember the statement and/or you are giving off clear vibes of negativity.  Further you decline the opportunity for discussion?  Regardless of what you think the tone or message will be, that tells me you aren't open to anything beyond your own point of view.  Again, please take this constructively, but try to look at your actions, words, and behaviors as others would see them.  Then try to take an honest assessment of how you could have approached this situation differently.

[LeCastor 641]

Last time I rechartered I had to go to the scout office and pick up my packet, which I filled out and returned to the scout office.  Popcorn was kinda the same way.  Just dealt directly with the office. 

 

The only time I see the SE is at RT where she hands out fliers which are all available on the council website.

 

I see very little need for the districts other than to hand out the annual DAM awards.

 

It does make it easier and less travel for everyone to go to a district RT rather than the longer drive of the council  RT.  It wouldn't make any difference in my district, they don't come to RT anyway.  They don't even show if it's in the same city.

 

Dude, do I have to fix YOUR district, too!?  Well, at least I don't have to fly to yours...

[Stosh 3452]

Dude, do I have to fix YOUR district, too!?  Well, at least I don't have to fly to yours...

 

My council doesn't need fixin'.  It's just fine the way it is.  For the most part I ignore them and they ignore me.  The most they have me roped into is being UC for our neighboring troop. In reality, that's how I recruited the DC to be my ASM.  

[gsdad 59]

Act like an adult and accept the SE's invitation to discuss the matter but do it on neutral ground. I flat out told my SE,DE, and a room full of volunteers I dislike the idea of professional Scouters and have no time for them. My SE approached me afterwards and thanked me for my honesty, and promised to do what he could to prove they weren't all part of the problem.