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fred johnson

Fear that expanded Duty To God requirement drives us out of schools ... AGAIN ...

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SMC:

 

What did you do this month to be trustworthy? What did you do this month to be loyal?.... so why can't we ask What did you do this month to be reverent? We've all become phobic of the topic to the point were we can't even talk about it and thus it makes the 12th point of the Scout Law obsolete. What did you do to keep your self physically strong this month? morally straight? What did you do for your helping other people, how about your duty to your community, but we can't ask about their duty to God? Back to the phobic thingy again. So we can drop that part of the Oath because it too has become obsolete. Let's teach the boys the "Pass the Buck" game. Whenever one is put on the spot to do something that would be intimidating you just pass the buck to the next guy. This works only so long as the boys never ask you what you have done to be Brave this past month. :)

 

Stosh

 

 

 

I agree with this.

 

My issue was and continues to be BSA's need to focus on "duty to God" and "Reverent" as though these are more important than the other parts of the oath and law. We do not have a "Declaration of Physical Fitness" for example whereby we declare ourselves to be promoters of fitness and kick out those who do not live by or share this virtue. If we focus scouting on the Outings and let boys be boys and learn to do things for themselves, both BSA and the Boys will be better off. Sometimes the adults just need to get out of the way of Scouting and stop interrupting the boys in scouting.

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I agree with this.

 

My issue was and continues to be BSA's need to focus on "duty to God" and "Reverent" as though these are more important than the other parts of the oath and law. We do not have a "Declaration of Physical Fitness" for example whereby we declare ourselves to be promoters of fitness and kick out those who do not live by or share this virtue. If we focus scouting on the Outings and let boys be boys and learn to do things for themselves, both BSA and the Boys will be better off. Sometimes the adults just need to get out of the way of Scouting and stop interrupting the boys in scouting.

 

I'm thinking it isn't so much a over-focus on just one of the laws in as much as it might be more of a re-emphasis because it has been seriously neglected for so long. You may be correct in that it might be a bit more emphasis than is really necessary.

 

:) getting boys off the sofa and away from the computer chair might not be such a bad idea though.

 

Stosh

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I have the high adventure BMI stands posted in our meeting area. You don't have to be in shape but you don't have to be able to do everything you want to either.

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"Ok, Scout - what have you done this month to show you're doing you're Duty to God"

 

 

"Well Mr. Scoutmaster, I took the Pope's words to heart and served as a ring bearer at my gay cousin's same-sex marriage, and I helped my divorced uncle take communion at Sunday mass, then to show how reverent I am I helped my Muslim neighbor put up a flagpole for his black Islamic flag which reads "There is no God but God - Muhammed is the messenger of God" then I helped the athiest down the street mow his lawn"

 

 

As I said, it's ok to ask, it just might not be wise.

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I started one conversation like this. "How are you reverent?" Blank stare from TF going for SC. "OK' date=' what does reverent mean?" Blank stare from TF. "Alright. Talk to you parents about what you find reverent and let's talk again next week. Remember that what I beliveve might be very different from what you do and that's OK. But at the end of the day we both probably have that feeling that wow this has to be something more than me that made all this. What I want to know is what makes you feel that way and why. Also blank stares don't count."[/quote']

 

Stout -- that's probably not an unlikely scenario which is why I often ask Tenderfoot candidates if there are any parts of the Scout Law they don't understand. Almost without fail the two points which come up are Thrifty and Reverent. I then open his handbook "A Scout is Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others." (page 25). If a Scout still can't answer what his Duty to God is, ask a few leading questions. Are you a member of a church? What does your church ask you to do? Go to church on Sunday? Attend mass? Pray? Read the Bible? Serve other people?

 

This really isn't tough if we keep in mind the purpose is to elicit a conversation and get the boys to think.

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I wouldn't want to define reverence as a church or Sunday all the references you gave are christian based. I don't think I should be pointing the him toward a specific religion but to find reverence

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Yeah, I could have spend another half hour writing out interfaith scenarios, but I figured most folk would get that the greater point is to engage the young men and get THEM to consider their own faith and obligations to it.

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I do the recruiting and Tiger Cub program for our Cub Pack, so I've developed ways of introducing the Cub Scout program to new families that have worked well for me.

 

 

I go over the Cub Scout promise with new boys, with parents looking on. I explain that by "duty to God" we mean

 

1) Cub Scouts respect the religious traditions of their families

 

2) Cub Scouts respect the religious traditions of other families.

 

That seems to work quite well.

 

We had a Moslem family that was uncomfortable attending our Christmas Party last year. We invited the Mother to describe the religious traditions of the Moslem religion, which she did quite capably for about ten minutes or so during our Christmas Party.

 

Everyone seemed pretty happy with that.

 

The pack is chartered by a Catholic parish.

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Anecdotal stories are fine, but there is a real issue here.

 

This whole discussion started because BSA is changing the CUB PROGRAM ...

 

EXAMPLE ON PAGE 28 : http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pr...quirements.pdf

 

As a Webelos, your Akela is your den leader. You either earn the religious emblem (#1) or you do #2A or #2D. #2B & #2C are moot because you can do those with family and family can say it's just not that important to them. Automatic get out of jail free card on #2B & #2C.

 

But 2A and 2D are more than show respect. It's about active practicing. 2A is plan, support, participate. 2D is practice for a month. That moves Cub Scouts from "Faith Friendly" to "Faith Based", especially as the den leader now gets involved.

 

This is an issue because we recruiting from schools. Faith friendly is fine and creates a nice well rounded program, but faith based is a bridge not to be crossed with schools. At that point, we need to recruit from churches and not schools.

 

It was well meant, but it is bad bad change.

 

Even worse, it's a bad marketing move as our nation moves to spiritual but most are not affiliated with a church. So now, you want them to practice even though they are not affiliated with a church.

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"It was well meant, but it is bad bad change.

 

Even worse, it's a bad marketing move as our nation moves to spiritual but most are not affiliated with a church. So now, you want them to practice even though they are not affiliated with a church."

 

What did Baden-Powell know that we don't?

 

Stosh

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Fred, we are generally on the same page on this stuff. I don't see a problem with 2D. "Mr. Den Leader, my item is to never question anyone about their faith, no matter how tempting that is. So everyday this month I did not question anyone about their private religious beliefs. I feel much closer to God now. Sign here, please."

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I don't see how a Buddhist can perform these as stated. This is scary you will believe how national dictates you will believe.

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Oh, I forgot the best part. Then the Webelos should break out and sing Mel Brooks' The Inquisition for History of the World Part 1 and ask the DL to sign off on his Showman Activity Badge.

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Oh' date=' I forgot the best part. Then the Webelos should break out and sing Mel Brooks' The Inquisition for History of the World Part 1 and ask the DL to sign off on his Showman Activity Badge.[/quote']

 

 

Busby Berkeley would be proud!

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