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fred johnson

Fear that expanded Duty To God requirement drives us out of schools ... AGAIN ...

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... "I had to sacrifice a lamb" ...

 

Passover? Eid El Aida? ... I'd only be bothered if I wasn't invited.

 

A lesser god? ... I'd be obliged to abstain. But I wouldn't think any less of the scout for doing his duty.

 

Same for the other spiritual exercises you mentioned. This has nothing to do with interpreting BSA policy, but rather my Christian obligation to give due honor to the unconverted. It's a play from Lewis's book, who imagined the Almighty declaring "all the service thou hast done to Tash, I accept as service done to me" ... "no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him."

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If one is a chef and never cooks' date=' how is anyone to know and of what benefit to anyone is it? On the other hand if there is a chef who volunteers at the Salvation Army kitchen and makes fantastic meals for the homeless, one wouldn't need to even ask. But on the other hand some people are very private and keep to themselves. So be it, but what value is that to the world around them? It's kinda like a person joining a kayak club because they have a kayak in their garage. They haven't used it for 20 years, but there's a deep personal reasons why they don't. Have fun with that. People on membership lists like that are often called Dead Wood and that's not limited to religious organizations. So if the person shows it, there's no need to ask. If they don't, how is anyone to know? BSA is only saying it's okay to ask. Stosh[/quote'] Nope. They are giving the power to judge. Is an artist who never shows his work any less of an artist?

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Nope. They are giving the power to judge. Is an artist who never shows his work any less of an artist?
Not sure about power to judge. In a sense we've always had that. Some have used more wisely than others. Bet we being "required to ask" at every SMC. I can't put my finger on why I want National to butt out on my conversations. Maybe it's because I've seen how divisive folks can be, and can imagine an otherwise decent SM being run out on a rail because his SMC's don't conform to this new standard.

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Nope. They are giving the power to judge. Is an artist who never shows his work any less of an artist?

 

An artist who never shows his work is of no value to anyone other than himself. It is a self-judgment of his worth/value.

 

Stosh

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Stosh, don't be so quick to judge. I believe some of the greatest artists in history were never judged to have "worth/value" until after they died.

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We ask the Scout to be "trustworthy", first of all the rest. If he comes to the SMC and decides to "test" the waters by saying something off the wall, the only thing the SM can do is first ask "do you really mean that?" and then move on.

If the SM feels he must somehow enforce the idea that BSA requires a certain type of belief (and I have had to disabuse folks more than once that the BSA is a "Christian" organization), we will have another problem. Ultimately, it is up to the individual. If the SMC is not a pass/fail thing (see other threads), then it is sufficient that the boy answer sincerely and the SM be satisfied that he did so. If the purpose is to get the boy to examine his beliefs (or lack of), then the SM had better be secure in his own, and that sounds a lot like a parent's duty to me.

We obey speed limits for one of two reasons: Either we do not want to pay the fine, or we see the limit as a reasonable thing to do, a guide created by folks expert in such things and contributing to our personal and community safety. Is the Duty to God question something similar?

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An artist who never shows his work is of no value to anyone other than himself. It is a self-judgment of his worth/value.

 

Stosh

 

van Gogh only sold 1 painting during his lifetime. Due to his mental illnesses most were not seen until after his death.

 

El Greco had a really hard time being allowed to show his work because of disagreements with Michelangelo.

 

Manet wasn't allowed to display his work because of nudity.

 

Sisley a Brit doing French impressionism limited his ability display his work.

 

I guess these artist have no value in the the art world.

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If the scout says the following would you advance him?:

 

"I cast a healing spell for the troop during the solstice"

 

"I meditated on qi"

 

"I had to sacrifice a lamb"

 

As long as those are part of the Scout's duty to God.

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van Gogh only sold 1 painting during his lifetime. Due to his mental illnesses most were not seen until after his death.

 

El Greco had a really hard time being allowed to show his work because of disagreements with Michelangelo.

 

Manet wasn't allowed to display his work because of nudity.

 

Sisley a Brit doing French impressionism limited his ability display his work.

 

I guess these artist have no value in the the art world.

 

Their work is valuable, their contributions as people were rather questionable during the time they could make a positive contribution to society.

 

We expect to value Eagle scouts only AFTER they have died?

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but I do believe the art world and even the world in general don't care one iota about the artists themselves, only their work. Whereas Sr. Theresa left behind a legacy of character and no tangible evidence of her ever living in this world. Do we remember her because of her work or because of the value of she who she was. If we are going to be producing young men of character, it really doesn't matter what work they do in life. I'm working on the value of their character when I work with this young boys. What they do for a living is of not concern of mine.

 

Stosh

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Their work is valuable, their contributions as people were rather questionable during the time they could make a positive contribution to society.

 

We expect to value Eagle scouts only AFTER they have died?

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but I do believe the art world and even the world in general don't care one iota about the artists themselves, only their work. Whereas Sr. Theresa left behind a legacy of character and no tangible evidence of her ever living in this world. Do we remember her because of her work or because of the value of she who she was. If we are going to be producing young men of character, it really doesn't matter what work they do in life. I'm working on the value of their character when I work with this young boys. What they do for a living is of not concern of mine.

 

Stosh

Stosh, your alliteration to the artist that does not show his work failed. then you shifted to character. DeVinci had to hide his work for being against the Church, as did Galileo both labeled as hereticsI assume that since where heretics they had faulty character.

Can we for certain ensure that NO scout will be denied rank due to this question and that scouts differences of faith with the SM and or troop in general?

 

Another question how does this make the program better?

 

 

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As long as those are part of the Scout's duty to God.

,

 

Goddess, for the spell caster.

 

The scout meditating on qi has no god per se

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,

 

Goddess, for the spell caster.

 

The scout meditating on qi has no god per se

 

If those are his spiritual duties, then I'm fine with them.

 

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This is an interesting discussion' date=' but I would suggest there are a few folks who need to do some soul searching regarding their abject terror about religion.[/quote']

Wow. so basically if those that don't with you are not in touch with their souls and have doubts in their own faiths. And we should be quiet and ensure that we don't make to many waves that might disrupt the majority.

 

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What about Pastafarians?

 

As long as they wear their colanders properly, that is fine by me.

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