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Well according to the polls, the only majority you have is with white men.. Many say angry white men, but I think some are just as you call it "hornswoggled".. So while your diversity has your base group in civil war with each other.. Your diversity is not anything that attracts the diversive American population.


Even your own party knows it will die off it it doesn't change.. Your pool is dieing off and America is becoming a bigger melting pot.. Besides no matter what your religion or ethnic background, women are 50% of the population.. Fewer and fewer are willing to except the role of a 2nd class citizen. More military are even voting Democrat, those who are not profiting from the war, but are our foot soldiers would prefer being used for National security, then to sent to war for someone elses profit.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

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""Please state similar examples of power control by Democratic leadership.."


Why? Will similar examples change your mind? A person sincerely wanting to know of such examples will research the matter themselves rather than entrusting the task (simple though it may be) to a character who writes "jibberish."


Callooh! Callay! posts may occasionally illuminate things some wish weren't so. But this isn't a research service. The curious ought find sources written in a register they comprehend. Then, minds fortified with information on par with their vituperation, with reading practice and careful study, confusion could give way to clarity and their reading comprehension might improve such that these posts will no longer read as gibberish."


Translation for the rest of us: "Ummm, I can't prove the BS I'm spouting so I'm going to continue to claim I'm right without providing any proof and demanding that you do my work for me".


Typical tea bagger nonsense.


Oh, and Bob Dole does the best Bob Dole there is - you're clearly an inferior copy.

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"Romney is a good guy. He's pragmatic"

"He's an honest, honorable guy"


Are we talking about the guy that bullied a high school classmate then said it never happened? Are we talking about the guy that his sons tell "endearing" stories about family events, like tripping a daughter-in-law to win a race (Honorable? Really??) or mashing whip cream into a grandchilds face because it's fun?


Are we talking about the guy who wonders why we can't roll down airplane windows for fresh air (Pragmatic? Really??)?


Are we taking about a guy who drew criticism from his own party for his remarks after the Ambassador to Libya was killed?


Pack - tell me you're yanking our chains here.



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Calico, did you not hear Obama just admit that he was a mediocre student until college? Were you and others in these forums just a bunch of 'Stepford' children in high school? I know I sure did plenty of incredibly stupid things back then. I can't say how I'd respond if I was running for office and I was asked about some of those things. And luckily for the rest of the public, I'm NOT running for any office and never will.;) But Romney's a human being too.

I'm fairly certain that if I cherry picked the life of any politician I could come up with a list of things that, standing alone, would be embarrassing and damaging. And I know I could be wrong about Romney...you're reading the words of a person who voted for Nixon.

But when I look over his life I see someone who is basically good and decent. I see this in Obama too. But Obama had his chance and he failed. HE failed. Romney, I think, deserves a chance at the helm as well and I'm ready for the 'change' and I 'hope' it happens.

The only chains I'd like to jerk are the ones that the Tea Party has wrapped around the Republicans. I'd like to jerk them free of those dying and failed ideas. I fear that the weight of those chains is going to take Romney down, maybe the other Republicans as well.


Again, just like yesterday, I find that I'm having to pinch myself. These forums used to have numerous persons who claimed conservative values and ideas. Where the heck are they now? Has 'Mother Jones' or 'The Nation' taken control of the forums?

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Socialism in Western government is a debate that is over. The question now is "How much socialism are we going to have?" SS, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Government sponsered College Loans, all are socialistic aspects of government, and most Americans would agree these mentioned programs are good.


The Tea Party has hurt the Republican party's ability to moderate. They've stolen the Parties ability to compromise and pass legislation. They will cost Romney the White House, and the Republicans will not capture the Senate, and may even lose the House.


Statistically, self described "Conservatives" make up 30% of the population. The Republican party can ONLY win elections if it pulls in a large number of Independent voters, and it will not do so this election, like it did in 2010.


I predict a electoral victory for Obama, Democratic gains in the Senate, and the House could even slide Democratic again.


The Republican party is too fractured and divided. It needs to decide on a course. Like the Democrats after being trounced by Ronald Reagan, the Republicans need to reinvent themselves, or face obscurity.


As a Moderate with Conservative leanings, I wish the Republican party embarks on a more moderate course in the future, and opens the party up to minorities, and tries to be a more inclusive party.


The News Media also needs to stop it's INCREDIBLY BIASED reporting of Politics. The Bias's of Fox, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, NPR, Newsweek, ect are dirty, terrible displays of cheerleader journalism.


I will grudgingly vote this election, I'm not sure which candidate.(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

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Sentenal -


Socialism in Western government is a debate that is over. The question now is "How much socialism are we going to have?" SS, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Government sponsered College Loans, all are socialistic aspects of government, and most Americans would agree these mentioned programs are good.



Exactly the things I use to like in the Republican party.. They did not turn their backs on the poor and the needy, but believed in fiscal conservativism as not adding unneccessary NEW programs, and watching for waste and changing programs that people were abusing to take advantage of the system.


They need to rid themselves of the midevil social values they have embraced, the the belief that fiscal conservatism means selfish self-centered personal greed.


Poor Packsaddle.. I feel for you, because I think the face you want to believe is truely Romney's (out of his 50 faces).. Has the old style Republican views that Sentinel speaks about.. You also want to believe that Romney will not be a puppet of those who are trying to buy this election.. You are trying to rationalize why it is still a good thing to be a loyal Republican. But, you are not one of of either of the new camps that have taken up residence there..


So Sentenial is one of the very rare breeds of undecided voters?? Only 4% left.. I would think though he is at least more informed then the comedy video C.C. posted..

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Poor Packsaddle.. I feel for you, because I think the face you want to believe is truely Romney's (out of his 50 faces).


Yah, yeh do realize packsaddle is just pullin' our chains, right?


Sentinel947, I think we need to remember what da real definition of socialism is, eh? It's not distribution-of-risk programs (insurance) with private providers offering service. It's da government owning and controlling da means of production.


Da GM and AIG bailouts were socialist.


In some ways, a standing U.S. military is socialist.


Medicare is just insurance.




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Beavah, but wouldn't medicare/medicaid/SS be government owned insurance? It's certainly a redistribution of wealth (whether or not that is unfair is up to debate)


Moosetracker: I am a Independent Catholic voter from Ohio, (I live in Speaker Boehners district). I do try to vote in accordance with Catholic teachings. So.... the Democrats have left me behind in their glorification of baby killing, I mean choice. While the Republican party is advocating everyone for themselves economics, and has no care for life after it's been born ( social welfare, death penalty). Leaving me in the awkward position of picking the lesser evil.


I yearn for the Republican party of old. Compassionate Conservatism, the Party who freed the Slaves.


and Moose, I'm the worst type of independent voter, I study Political Science at the University of Cincinnati.



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packsaddle Seems to me that for the longest time, I was the only Forum Member who dared to admit that he was left of center.

Have to admit to finding a lot of pleasure in the pain that your feeling. (No! I take that back. You know I wish you nothing but very best.)

Your man Romney reminds me of what used to be my idea of an insurance salesman then of course I hear that cute little chap who sounds a lot like me.

There's a lot to be said for being cute.

Maybe Romney needs to try working with the Muppet's?

But after upsetting everyone in the UK, He'd better not try anything with a cute English accent.

Thinking about it, I'd love to have a bomber sticker with the headlines that appeared in the UK "Mitt The Twit".

But I'm not going to for fear of having my car covered in teabags.



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OK Pack, so you do seem to enjoy tilting at windmills, in the interest of offering some support to a fellow conservative here on the forums:

While Mitt may have stepped on the old candidate's crank a couple times, I see him as much more fically conservative that our current president (anybody looked at the national debt lately?). I am not enamoured by either candidate but I am much more inclined to vote for the guy that did not double our national debt in three years by selling our grandchildren's future to China.

Now as far as who I would rather sit down and hoist a few with, I would probably choose Mr Obama, he seems like a really nice guy, however, I do not think that he gets what has made this country great, our entrepreneurs, business founders and even yes, the robber-barons of days gone by. Yes I believe that the american working man needs some protection from the abuses of the employers, but not at the expense of the employers. Our employers and yes, by extension, the rich of this country are the engine that makes our country grow, if we shut down our businesses and tax those who have the capital to invest in building more for themselves, and employing other to do that, we shut down our economy. Andrew Carnegie was the richest man in the world, and donnated his wealth to some great charaties when he died, he also ran US Steel with an iron fist, but he made the transcontinental railway and the industrialization of this country possible. Was he Good or Evil? Depends on whether you think the individual should be valued above the good of the nation.

I think Mitt Romney understands this and is looking to support the ones who make the economy grow and create jobs for those of us who are not "fortunate sons"

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" I am not enamoured by either candidate but I am much more inclined to vote for the guy that did not double our national debt in three years "


FYI, Ronald Reagan is not running in this election.


Through the end of fiscal 2011, the National Debt has increased by approx. 38%.


Republicans are NOT the party of fiscal conservatism. Not that I believe that Democrats are. There may be good reasons to vote for a Republican candidate but being fiscally conservative is not one of them. As Governor of Massachusetts Romney dramatically increased State revenues through additional fees and implemented the largest broad based tax increase in years. Romneycare. The idea this guy is a fiscal conservative is laughable.


He is, as Pack has pointed out and by his own admission a pretty pragmatic business person and is capable of making decisions without regard how they impact individuals.



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Oh.. Sure Pchadbo.. Your one of THEM!!! From what I hear so is our illustrious DE..


First after Clinton got us free of debt, the tax started to tick upwards under the Bush administration.. The majority of our debt even under the 4 years of Obama, has been ticking upwards due to having to pay for the wars (started by Bush Admin..).. And also due to the tax stimulous which reduced what we brought in (another brilliant Bush move).. Now I know that the tax stimulous could have been ended two years back, but it wasn't because of the push back from REPUBLICANS.. Personally they should have let it filibustered it and let it die then. Anyway those are the two biggest reasons for the debt continueing to climb.. So putting someone in who wants is to continue the wars we are in plus start countless others.. PLUS continue the tax stimulous with additional tax reduction to the 1% group (well some days he says he will give the 20% more tax breaks other days he says he wont..) is not the solution..


So what else has added to the debt.. The auto bailout (although I thought it was a bad idea at the time, strangly worked out, and it was paid back..


I had to check on this because it isn't in the news so much, but I guess the bailout of wallstreet has also been paid back.. (again I had thought this a horrible mistake, and still don't care for the fact they did not put tighter rules on it, so it helped more those in mainstreet, rather then helping mostly those on wallstreet.)


Alot more disastor aid because the planet has more hurricanes, floods etc.. Thanks to Global warming.. Something Republicans think are a joke.. "Drill baby, Drill..", "I don't understand why we need all these national forest preserves"..


So now you are left with the added funding to help out the unemployed those who can not find work, or can not find work that pays enough to feed their family.. Thanks to the Bush administration..


What was the Bush Administrations policy.. Lower Taxes, Start wars... What is Romneys.. Lower taxes, Start wars (or at least pay for defense like you plan to and talk tough like you plan to, and put your foot in your mouth to incite the anger of foreign embassies and double down on it..)..


The only way Republicans plan to dig the hole deeper in order to get out is going to work is if they plan to dig all the way to China..


I suppose you believe the piece about Ryan being a deficit hawk too??? Ha.. Independent analysis of the Ryan budget states it is pure hogwash.. And he had to just file an admendment to his tax return because he screwed up and forgot to calculate in like 20% of his earned income.. Guy reminds me of Eddie Haskill on Leave it to Beavah..

(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

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First after Clinton got us free of debt


Balancing the budget and actually paying off the national debt are two separate issues. That said, Clinton was a fiscal conservative, relatively speaking -- but in no small part due to the opposition party being in control of Congress.

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well, Moose and Scoutingagain, I was not referring to Reagan, although I do think had the Democrats in Congress spent the money faster tan his tax cuts brought it in (yes taxes were cut and revenues increased) my Fiscal hero of a Presedent is the one the made the single largest tax cut on the wealthiest americans and took the top marginal tax rate from 97% to 68% on the wealhiest americans. Who is this conservative rich man's friend you ask? John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

NOw, if you ask me the presidential candidate who has had the best tax policy idea in my lifetime, I would go with Steve Forbes (just talking Fiscal policy now) eliminate ALL tax deductions other than minimal for kids and exempt the first 25000 for singles and 50000 for a couple and some more per kid but after that you pay a flat rate 4, 5, 6% of your income, period. eliminate most of the IRS, reduce spending there and actually increase revenues and have a much fairer way of taxation.

A guy can dream can't he?

As for Romney, Kennedy or Reagan he ain't but he's better than Mr Obama in my opinion. They both Lie and try to tell you what you want to hear but I believe I am more philosophically aligned with the red guy than the blue guy. I think the gov't exists to allow the individual to excel, it is not the gov'ts responsibility to take care of the population.

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