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Everything posted by moosetracker

  1. The problem is that it is local interpretation, and some have a very concrete interpretation.. They will have a problem with a Buddist faith, or wiccan or my son's belief that is more with Greek mythology.. There was a thread a little while back and one person did have a hard time with the concept and felt there had to be some sort of measure and pass/fail for a person's belief.. Some beliefs were too far out there, had no logic, or were too close to being the beliefs of a atheist..
  2. I agree with Merlyn, for Christians the Bible has been interpreted and re-interpreted by men through the years, the moral code has changed through the years and the bible has countless different interpretations for each denomination.. The moral code of the bible is not a constant.. Other holy books, or folk lore are completely different and they too can be interpreted differently by many people. If you are religious but don't like the moral code of your religion, well just find a different religion that is more in line with your beliefs. I also disagree that atheists choose not to foll
  3. Well although morality, Is a standard, set by the group of people or community (religiously they are set by the groups interpretation of their holy book, or holy word, or folk lore). The only way you as a person are able to follow the morals you are given by this community, are by learning them and having your conscience guide you on the right path to take.. If the holy word on morality were just magically there and everyone had it, there would be no need for churches, no difference in interpretation of what is morally correct and atheists would magically have the same moral code that you hav
  4. I disagree, because they can take a moral code of an organization (like scouting) or the moral code that was taught to them by their parents (how many of us have had mom or dad chirping in our ear if we even contemplated something that went against how we were raised?).. Religion has also many different denominations and a lot are due to one denomination splitting off into two due to disagreement on what is important or what the true meaning of something in some holy book is all about.. People choose a religion that is closest to their moral beliefs.. If they at some point disagree they
  5. Yeah I agree with Rick-in-CA, we are not very good at the understanding of reverent... My point exactly... With the words of Merlyn I would say an understanding and practice of the word reverent is needed from both sides.
  6. I believe an atheist can be as moral as a religious person.. And compared to some religious people certain atheists may even be 100% more moral.. Religion does not guarantee morality.. Some people may need a higher being who will smile on them or crush them, or a guarantee for a spot in heaven if they play nice on earth in order to behave well while on earth. Others, just need empathy for their fellow man or the animals or the planet, a wish and desire to leave the world a better place for the next generation some of whom may be their offspring.. Scouting itself and following the laws
  7. I did not say they paid attention to volunteers of BSA.. I said they paid attention to the public opinion in their area.. Who will donate? (or not and why), Who will start a new charter (or not and why), Who has boys of age to recruit.. (If not interested, why).. If they are getting enough then the "No's" don't figure as much, if they are not the "No's" become reason to want change.. Here in the East, the "No's" defiantly helped convince councils it was time to get behind and back change..
  8. Councils in my experience pretty much echo the opinions of the community around them.. There major push is for donations and membership.. If they have problems with either due to a policy, they will side with a policy change, if they have support of the community due to a policy they will support the policy.. Wishy Washy... yes.. But it is what it is..
  9. Personally I think the statement is well worded and finally reflects what scouting has always stated it was but was not following, that they are now nonsectarian in its attitude toward religious training. And perhaps if your not a religion and can not deny people due to religious beliefs (ie. you have conducted yourself with respect for everyone around you, but since I know your a homosexual you can not be an BSA Adult leader).. But, if someone wants to be an adult leader (or is an adult leader) and they are "a leader bragging in front of the scouts and others about some kind of affair; or
  10. I heard those comments a lot in these forums.. Many did not want us to stay and push for change, but to leave and suggested we start our own group.. I do not think the answer then was to try to push us out, I don't think the answer now is for us to try to push you out.. But, I do think the answer is within everyone personally as to what is the best way for them to either figure out how to continue on and be true to your own convictions, or not.. No one can tell you what is right for you personally. All I can say is many of us who pushed for this change found reasons to stay with BSA and pu
  11. I have been reading this interaction about civil law and cannon law for a page or two.. I guess, I am totally confused about the debate, it must be more then the fact that courts can put a dispute with the Catholic Church on trial, and consider the Catholic church in the wrong and liable whether monetarily or with prison time.. Many of the child molestations by catholic priests and the cover up, where all done in civil court and Catholic church ended up paying a ton of dough for their actions, and several priest wound up with jail time.. Catholic Church has done ALOT to change their process
  12. Still say no comparison between Divorced, unwed cohabitation and homosexuals.. Divorced/unwed can just live their lives and so if Catholic they may not get communion, if not Catholic they don't even get that to tell them someone thinks it's a sin.. Most divorced/unwed even if religious will not consider their lifestyle sinful.. So, no, the reason they were accepted as scout leaders is not because they are sorry for their sins and have repented.. Currently homosexuals can not "just live their lives", and just be denied communion. I am not saying the Catholic church can not have th
  13. As for the Catholic church they have the right to refuse to accept him as a leader in their troop, just as they have the right to not accept anyone for any reason.. I half believe the comment "When WLKY asked the Archdiocese of Louisville, if homosexuals will be allowed as scout leaders, a spokesperson said "it depends.".. I could see more conservative Catholic Churches simply not accepting any homosexuals as an adult leader.. It is really unclear what the Catholic position will be, but I expect it will be fine with some guidelines on how their Catholic Churches can conduct themselves.. It
  14. Very true SpEdScouter, that is the reason there are girls who want to be in boy scouts not girl scouts, because girl scouts does not offer them what they want. That is also the reason co-ed boy scouts will probably have little effect on the membership numbers of girl scouts, because a lot of those in girl scouts are in a group they prefer.
  15. Oh yes, a pie emotions would work just fine.. I was just thinking of what other forums I belong to have in their bag of tricks, so it was cake, beer and martini glasses, also some shamrocks and stars and rainbows (but those might be a little too girlie for BSA, and right now some would protest the use of the rainbow emotion when trying to send a peace offering..)
  16. I agree with not being at the gay pride parade in uniform.. That should be a rule on the books enforced not only at a parade like that but also at any rally that is political in nature. Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America clause 2. "The officers and leaders of the Boy Scouts of America shall, when practicable, cooperate in connection with civic or other public gatherings of a nonpartisan and nonpolitical character which gives Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and Explorers [Ventures] an opportunity to render service in harmony with their training instead of merely taking part in par
  17. No complaints here Terry, I think all our mods are terrific.. And since it seems the two who had the issue have solved their issues from posts BDPT00 has made in other posts, I don't know why the issue is still being dredged up.. Lot's of hugs to all our Mods.. And if our emotions would let me, I would send you also some beer and wine and cake too in order to compensate you on these days where our emotions on the boards overtax you.. (Oh !! I know why no beer or wine.. Scouting doesn't allow it.. Well we still should have cake, that is allowed.)
  18. I knew Trail Life was open to gay youth while it supposedly was that issue that caused them to form a new organization.. I did not know they beat BSA to the punch with accepting gay Adult Leaders.. WOW... In light of that, yeah I would say it had to be religious purity and LDS just doesn't make the grade in their eyes.. Bad Wolf - maybe apples and oranges, but the homosexuals are in and LDS (and other non-Christian adults) are out.. So if you want to leave BSA to move to Trails Life over the new leadership policy which accepts homosexual adults, why would you want to move to a group tha
  19. Thank-you T2Eagle.. The Catholic priest that charters a pack and troop had verbally told me something to that effect about a year back, but I thought that I would hang back and see if what he indicated was what they truly followed through with now that the hypothetical is a reality.. I am glad to see that it was.. I am sure that individual Catholic churches whose leaders and/or congregation are strongly conservative may still choose to no longer charter a BSA youth group as an individual choice.. But, it will be individual and not the church as a whole, which is good as it respects and suppo
  20. Last I knew, they would happily accept LDS youth, but LDS adults could not be leaders... They don't consider them true Christians because they don't believe in the holy trinity, there was mention of them following not only the Bible but also the "Book of Mormons" that make them not true Christians.. Trails life will take youth from all denominations but they will only accept true Christians as Adult Leaders.. A forum I visited on this subject had an LDS mother on the forum wanting to change to TL, but upset and not understanding the fact that they did not see her religion as Christian.. T
  21. I am not having the righteous indignation, here.. There was an article about a week back where the main question asked of the Republican presidential candidates were if they would attend a same-sex wedding of a friend.. Some said they had, Some said they would, others said not the wedding but the reception afterwards, few said absolutely not. If you want only scout leaders who practice your religion, you better only accept applications from members of your church.. Otherwise you will have scout leaders who will use contraceptives, have homosexual friends, not go to church on Sunday etc. etc.
  22. Sorry, but No.. You as a conservative religion are free not accept homosexual leaders, if you find out someone is homosexual you can end their volunteering for your unit.. You can expect them not to publicly promote homosexuals (like a gay parade, or bringing in photos of a same-sex wedding to a scout meeting and passing them around).. But you do not have total control over their day to day personal lives.. Therefore you do not have the right to approve or disapprove of every friend they have out of scouting, or approve or disapprove of every function they attend.. That is like stating tha
  23. Again you are not understanding that your religious convictions can be enforced upon your willing flock, and not the public at large, no matter how you twist yourself into knots to try to argue you have a right to do so.. But, I will agree the paper they sign should just state their opting out based on religious conviction, the insurers should only need the written opt out from them, with that the Insurers should then be able to set up a side insurance for any employee who can prove they are employed by a company who has signed the opt out.. The law in California is basically a law for pub
  24. And yes I would agree with the courts on the little sisters claim.. Their religion is against contraceptives, they do not have to provide contraceptives.. They do not have a religious belief that they can not sign something stating their religious belief.. They just do not want to, because they want to deny their employees their right to get that which they are entitled to through another means.. So, sorry sign the forms to get your religious based waver, otherwise no one knows you are evoking your religious based waver and you don't get it.. How else are Insurance companies suppose to know
  25. Such doom and gloom... Me, I look at Hobby Lobby's (which is a recent win, not some case over 100 years old) and say, you guys have nothing to worry about.. I think you will find your activist movement will now be smaller. It will have the die-hards, but not the general public who mainly agree that religions can be free to do what they want as long as they only enforce their beliefs to their own followers who have voluntarily chose to follow them and their rules..
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