BSA post LDS

[Basementdweller]

what a nice discussion......

 

 

Brought up somethings I had never thought about.....

 

I am catholic, interestingly we have a number of gay couples in our church, a growing number of Hispanics.

 

I forget how intolerant other are outside my world.

[NJCubScouter]

I doubt that either the LDS Church or the Catholic Church would leave the BSA simply because the BSA allowed other units to accept openly gay leaders. As long as their own units were not required to do so, I think they would decide to stay put.

[perdidochas]

IIRC, the LDS has said they would drop. I doubt that Catholic units would drop, as long as it was a local issue.

[NJCubScouter]

perdidochas, I am sure that someone speaking for the LDS Church did say that. Maybe it was in the context of "local option", maybe it was in the context of "everybody must open their doors", maybe it was both. But I am not addressing what they said, regardless of what context it was in. I am addressing what I think they would actually do.

[acco40]

Yeah, I was somewhat surprised that one of the Scouts in our troop was also a member of "Polish Scouts" and another "Ukranian Scouts" right hear in southeast Michigan. I wasn't aware of these ethnic based programs.

 

BTW, I thought it was funny when the brothers who were a part of Polish Scouts told me they like "my" troop much better. Seems that some of these ethnic based programs teach a little history and culture about their ethnicity that most boys of scouting age don't readily accept as "fun."

 

Some of the posters on here remind me of one of my favorite quotes from Austin Powers (Nigel Powers):There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

[eolesen]

It has been an official threat from Salt Lake that the LDS will leave,

 

In Rolling Stone's July 6, 2000 issue:

 

 

In 1995, Elder Jack Goaslind, a national BSA Executive Board member and president of the Mormon's youth organization, was asked during a civil hearing why the top leaders of the church were willing to leave BSA if it becomes accepting of gays. "Well, to be direct with you, it was because of the number of cases that have come before the courts on different homosexual-conduct acts that it's been discussed thoroughly there. And the decision has been reached," Goaslind said.

 

 

It's possible they might have a new revelation on the issue 17 years later, but I doubt it. Since there's so little interaction between the LDS and traditional troops already, I don't think most of us would notice.

 

Financially, losing the LDS would be a huge hit to Scouting in AZ, UT, NV, and ID. FOS contributions are compulsory in some wards. Without that, we'd see several councils forced into mergers. But it would survive. Merging with GSUSA might be an answer and a financial offset.(This message has been edited by Eolesen)

[Nike]

I wonder how many LDS families would buck the system and stick with Scouts in non-LDS troops if LDS church severed their ties to BSA?

 

 

[moosetracker]

My guess is few LDS would stay in scouts & transfer to a non-LDS unit.

1) if they drop the BSA, they will set up some other program the boys must join. There is only so much free time you can have.

2) Many never like Boy Scouts because it is mandatory.. So they treat it like school and eatting your veggies.

3) Although some LDS units are well run, many are not.. This never would even get the boy a chance to get over the fact it is manditory by discovering that it is a fun program. Adults have way to suck all the fun out of the program. That goes for poorly run non-LDS units as well as LDS units, thing is with non-LDS the boys have the right to vote with their feet..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Tampa Turtle]

Basement,

 

I saw a polling presentation that most self-identified traditionalist "born-agains" don't walk the talk any better than american Catholics. Or are culture in general is spawning a lot of cafeteria behavior toward laws--folks hate speeders on their street but speed elsewhere, etc.

 

But a fun discussion.

[bacchus]

I haven't seen so much intolerance and spreading of myth in a while. All in one thread too!

 

Reading through these I really see that there is need for some education and training. I'll try to bring up some topics in other threads; this one is just a bit too nasty right now.

[Basementdweller]

Ok Bacchus.......

 

 

Spin a thread and educate me in the ways of LDS and scouting.

 

 

I didn't see much hatin going on......

 

I have next to Zero experience with LDS troops, I know they exist locally, I know they do not attend round table, I know there is a separate week for them at summer camp, I know they attend separate LDS only camporees, I know of the threat to with draw from the BSA if gays are admitted......beyond that I know nothing else.

 

 

So get off that self righteous attitude and offer some education.......I am interested. If you don't feel you will get a fair deal on the board message me.

 

 

I want to understand, honestly.

[bacchus]

Moose: "3) Although some LDS units are well run, many are not.. This never would even get the boy a chance to get over the fact it is manditory by discovering that it is a fun program. Adults [find a] way to suck all the fun out of the program. That goes for poorly run non-LDS units as well as LDS units, thing is with non-LDS the boys have the right to vote with their feet.."

 

I pretty much agree with a caveat. When the LDS boys would have voted with their feet, they end up leaving scouts. It's not good either way. Really the only good way to avoid this is to keep the OUTing in Scouting. And if you have a reduced scouting attendance, something needs to change.

[CalicoPenn]

Kind of ironic to talk about keeping the OUTing in Scouting when the subject is about what the BSA would look like if the Mormons left Scouting because the BSA started accepting gays.

 

It wouldn't surprise me a bit to see the LDS hierarchy figure out a way to accept the local option while saving face over their previously stated position. The BSA serving as their official youth group for boys does two things for the LDS - 1) it provides a ready-made program (it's expensive to develop and administer your own) and 2) it mainstreams the LDS as a part of American society - The history of the LDS is a study in the American people 's suspicions about a relatvely secretive society (and by that, I mean the LDS has traditions it keeps to themselves - which is fine, but that doesn't help it gain acceptance among "outsiders"). The BSA, being the "All-American organization it is, helps the LDS show that it is every bit as much a part of America as everyone else.

 

While the Marriott family might stop donating to the BSA, it's unlikely the Marriott Corporation will - not with their "Be You, With Us" advertising campaign targeting the gay community which tends to have just a bit more discretionary funds for traveling than many familes do.

 

I suspect the LDS will continue to be a part of the BSA, as will the Catholic Church.

 

It also wouldn't surprise me in the least that a Troop has already awarded the Eagle Scout rank to a Scout that they know is openly gay.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

[packsaddle]

Calico, set your potential surprise aside.

[sherminator505]

I don't think it would be an earth-shattering event. Despite the membership numbers on paper, I doubt it would affect Scouting as a whole very much at all. The LDS Scouts and Scouters pretty much keep to themselves as it is, what with their "higher standard" and all.