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Merlyn_LeRoy

From SCOUTS-L: BSA allows gay youth members?

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The difference I noted was that one excludes homosexuals. The other excludes homosexual conduct. Maybe that's too fine a point.

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I think you're reading too much into the 1993 and 2004 policy statements

 

Some of the people on SCOUTS-L seem to think it's an actual policy change. The 1993 policy says pretty clearly that avowed gays can't be leaders or members, but the 2004 policy says "In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position." That doesn't sound like he loses his membership. If he's supposed to lose his membership, why isn't that even mentioned?

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I agree with Merlyn on this one - it does sound like a relaxation of the policy, and as Twocubdad points out, it seems reasonable to give the leadership on the ground more latitude. So I like the refinement.

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I thought name-calling was un-Scoutlike. Or was that last week? I can't keep up any more.

 

Just went back and read the article ... no where does it say anything about Scouts or Explorers. I would just assume that the kid bought the shirt (or someone gave it to him) at a thrift store or on eBay. Uniform parts on eBay are frequently identified with the search terms "punk or Indie", a fashion trend. Just because a kid is wearing a scout/Explorer T-shirt doesn't mean he's a member.

 

IMHO...much ado about nothing.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

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The issue would be, does the BSA allow Heterosexual scouts as well?

 

Well, as far as I understand it, a youth is a youth. Their sexual orientation is not the concern of the unit. If it's unclear if a Homosexual Scout would be able to continue in a position of leadership/responsibility, a heterosexual scout (unless married) who was sexually active wouldnt be able to continue his position of leadership/responsibility as well.

 

If a scout has sexual identity issues, an adult leader "may" be able to counsel the boy, but man oh man, they could be in over their heads quite quickly. If you are not qualified to do such counseling, tell the boy so and see what you can do to help him, but watch what you do yourself, I dont think such issues are for amateurs.

 

When I think of the Troop I serve, I don't look at 40 odd heterosexuals with a possible 4 homosexuals. They are all scouts. If any of them were to be "caught" in sexual activity either homo or hetero on a camp out, the result would be the same

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It's a mix of both Ed; people quoting BSA policy (assuming bsalegal.org can be taken as official policy), plus people's opinions on what it actually means. But since SCOUTS-L doesn't permit 3G discussions, it ended, so I thought I'd bring it up where it could be hashed out more.

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>>When I think of the Troop I serve, I don't look at 40 odd heterosexuals with a possible 4 homosexuals. They are all scouts. If any of them were to be "caught" in sexual activity either homo or hetero on a camp out, the result would be the same

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Interesting article. I also noted the following.

 

"The LDS Church is the largest single sponsor of Scouting units with over 30,000 units nationwide, which comprise about 13% of BSA's youth members. The LDS Church has stated that it would withdraw from the Scouting program if it was ever compelled to accept homosexual Scout leaders." (emphasis added)

 

This is followed several paragraphs later by, "BSA records show that the number of Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts had dropped by about 14% (as of end of 2007) since the Dale Decision in 2000." (emphasis added)

 

 

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Merlyn

 

Tell me something, do you see yourself as some kind of prophet trying to convert all of us wayward scouters to your gospel message concerning the BSA? If you do then I would think by now you would have realized few are listening, and those that do are trying to convert you.

So my question is why do you continue to beat a dead horse on every topic you post, is this your only avenue of human communication? If so then wake up son no one is buying your act.

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BadenP, did you have anything to add to this discussion, or are you just going to whine about how sad it is that public schools can no longer discriminate against atheists by chartering cub scout packs?

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I've been reading Merlyn's posts for a long time and I think he's been rather consistent in trying to prevent his tax dollars from supporting a religious organization that discriminates against atheists. In that respect he's might be a concerned taxpayer, but not a prophet.

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"The LDS Church has stated that it would withdraw from the Scouting program if it was ever compelled to accept homosexual Scout leaders."

 

And that, folks, is the whole issue in a nutshell. I would think that "local option" would fit here. LDS units can accept whoever they want. And so can other units. Or, do they want everyone else to adhere to their beliefs, too?

 

Being a Lutheran whose governing body recently voted to accept homosexual clergy, I'm sorta glad my Scouting career is nearing an end. One less thing to be conflicted about in the twilight of my life. (I turn 55 tomorrow and find myself thinking a LOT about mortality and how best to spend whatever remaining days I have left).

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As far as I can tell, yes, they really DO want everyone else to adhere to at least some of their beliefs. If the BSA allows gay members, every LDS unit can still reject all gays as members because the BSA has always allowed individual units to set additional joining criteria, such as a church unit requiring church membership or Christianity to join, or be a leader, etc.

 

So if gays could join, no LDS unit would be required to have gay members. But that wasn't good enough, apparently.

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