A serious dilemma...

[Fabs5342]

Hey guys, so I've ran into a bit of a crisis toward rank advancement. First off let me note that I've already turned 18. So my problem arises from when I served a scoutmaster approved leadership position. I volunteered as a youth leader to help the staff at the local scout summer camp. My scoutmasters explicitly told me it would suffice for the eagle scout rank, I even have one of their signatures in my book from when I held the position to prove it. So I went on to do my eagle project, finish those loose end merit badges, and hold my scoutmaster conference. AT my scoutmaster conference, I was essentially told "I didn't realize the stipulation on eagle scout pors, not much we can do about it now." This was told to me after I had less than a month to get eagle. I feel misinformed, my eagle rank is jeopardized, and the worst part of it is I had time to hold a formal position had I not been told I was all set and wouldn't need one. Help?

[Tampa Turtle]

Have you looked into getting an extension or appeal? Is your activity at summer camp documented? Are your Scoutmasters's willing to go to bat for you?

[KC9DDI]

To be honest, I have mixed feelings. I think since you were given misinformation by your Scoutmaster, you wouldn't be out of line to approach the district and/or council advancement committees for advice. You may be able to apply for an extension, as Tampa noted.

 

My mixed feelings come from the fact that the Eagle Scout rank requirements aren't exactly a secret, and it should be pretty clear to the Eagle candidate which PORs do and do not meet the requirement.

[Fabs5342]

Yes to all three questions. Although, I'd rather not have to go for a time extension because I'll be in college holding a leadership position. (no thanks). I'm still working with the council to get the issue sorted out but if an appeal becomes necessary then I will.

 

Edit: I realize I am partly responsible, but at the same time it would be expected for a scoutmaster of 9 years to know as well.(This message has been edited by Fabs5342)

[dg98adams]

Hate to see a Scout hung out because of an Adult interpretation.... but you have had access to the same Eagle requirement info that the SM does...

 

Did you not serve in ANY approved POR after getting Life?

 

 

[Fabs5342]

I did not hold any formal positions of responsibility.

 

Edit: and by formal I mean one of the 6 month positions listed.(This message has been edited by Fabs5342)

[qwazse]

Appeal.

 

The most significant question in your case is why didn't you hold a position with your troop (or crew, if you were in one)?

[moosetracker]

Sorry this happened to you. I was only a committee member but, I was the one to call attention to something similar about 3 times. The SM got so compancent about handing out projects or troop made up POR's at first he didn't realize the rule, then he just didn't put 2+2 together ie.. Not recognizing the scout was at his Life rank.

 

From what I remember though how it is listed, it is right around where you just assume it to be the same-old-same old and don't go into deep word for word reading, but rather skim it..

 

Yes if all else fails get the extension. If going away to college, perhaps you can join a troop in the area and finish the job up.. I have heard the National does accept extensions when it is due to adult error.. Hopefully they will not quibble with the "you should have read it yourself"..

 

Yes with something totally unfamilure like the Eagle project workbook, you should have read.. But with the last rank of what looks identical to the two ranks before it, you simply skim..

[Eamonn]

I hate to have to say it, but I think that you missed the bus.

The correct information is readably available and in my book your claim that you didn't know and or that you were given the wrong information just doesn't cut it.

You might want to appeal and try to find a Crew near where you are going to school where you can if elected fill a POR.

Sorry,

Eamonn.

[packsaddle]

As I've written before, finishing scouting at the rank of Life is very honorable. In this case I think that's what you will do...and should do. Regardless of what the SM did or did not understand, the primary responsibility is always on the candidate to know the requirements and to meet them. No excuses. I'm sorry if this seems harsh. But that's the way I view this situation. It's the way things are going to work from here on out as well.

[gsdad]

You were the one looking to make Eagle, the responsibilty is yours to know the requirements. Chalk it up as a life lesson. Why did you wait until the last minute?

[Papadaddy]

Take all this advice and reflect inwardly. If you still feel that you are being denied the Eagle due to no fault of your own, then by all means request an appeal to the District Advancement Committee. I don't think anyone wants to see a Scout held back if it was the fault of a negligent or mis-informed adult leader. But on the other hand, how much of this was within your control? Good luck with your decision.

[Lisabob]

I'm a little surprised at the responses here.

 

I agree that it is a responsibility of the scout to know the requirements.

 

On the other hand, scouts are still kids. And in all other facets of the youth world, adults set, twist, bend, and interpret "the rules" for them, expecting youth to defer to the adults' position of authority with regard to interpreting rules.

 

So, if a Scoutmaster tells a boy "this position will count for Eagle even though it isn't in the officially approved list in your book." And if a trained Scoutmaster of 9 years never corrects that statement until it is too late for the boy to complete the actual requirement, then I think the SM bears a heavy portion of the responsibility for misleading the Scout.

 

Maybe part of the "life lesson" here is that young men on the verge of adulthood should not be willing to take their adviser's/mentor's/leader's word or interpretation of rules at face value - that adults often get it wrong - but I do not think that's really the primary intent of the having a leadership requirement as part of the Eagle rank.

 

Consequently, in this case, I think the scout has a good case for appeal, ***supposing that*** he is actually going to follow through (if appeal succeeds) and hold an appropriate leadership position.

 

However: If that's not going to happen (scout doesn't want to hold a position/feels he's past that point in his life), then the Scout should, indeed, consider the merits of graciously aging out - with plenty of honor - as a Life Scout, and be proud of his many accomplishments.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

As a general rule, Scouts aren't held accountable for adult mistakes, so I do think it is worth persuing an appeal. I do agree with you and the others that you have some level of responsibiliy, too. To what degree? Is this more your responsibility or your Scoutmaster? Hard to say. That's the purpose of the appeal process.

[BadenP]

 

 

Part of becoming an Eagle Scout is to show proven leadership skills and organizational skills.

That is part of the problem here Fabs, you depended totally on what other people told you rather than making sure that you had all the requirements met as outlined in your eagle book/ scout handbook. I agree that it seems kind of petty on the EBOR's part to hold the Eagle hostage over a POR, but you knew better I think that a summer camp paid staff position is NOT a POR by any stretch of the imagination in spite of what your SM told you. The EBOR was just following the rules.

 

That being said there should be some type of compromise that could be reached since, IMO, it is the responsibility of adult scouters to help the boys be successful in their scouting experience. Sometimes the power wielded by EBOR's seem to go to their heads and creates an adversarial situation. Fabs IMO there should be a way for you to appeal by using your own leadership skills, getting advice from your troop leaders and talking to the District Advancement Chair personally to show him/her just how serious you are about becoming an Eagle and then working out a doable solution. That is part of being an adult and taking responsibility for your actions. Good Luck and do not give up. Remember the old saying, where there is a will there is a way, now go and find that way Fabs.