alternatives for 2nd & 1st class swimming requirements

[moosetracker]

What can an District Advancement chair do for two boys in his district that are petrified of water?

 

The DAC is my husband and he, my son and my future daughter-in-law all have taken red cross Lifeguard & swimming instuctor courses. My Daughter-in-law works with swimming with handicap children. So my first advice to him was to ask to meet with these boys at a pool we know is Scout friendly and allows us free access to see what the issues are. But the troop SM states they have tried swimming lessons, but have panic attacks when they get their face wet. Both are in the same troop, I do not know if they are related and had some tramatic experience or why we have two in the same troop with the same issue.

 

Anyway, if my husband can do no better with working with them, what would be his alternatives? I know the swimming merit badge is in a group of a choice of 3 to meet the requirement. I was told this was done for the very fact that some scouts do not swim. Seems weird they changed the MB to meet the problem, if there is no way to adjust the 2nd & 1st class requirements for the same issue.

 

Just looking for ideas he can offer as suggestions, if he needs to. Our DE and director of Field Service kindof made it sound like it would be his call. But, is it his call? Does he have that option?

[John-in-KC]

Absent a legitimate special need, with all the approvals, the requirements are what they are.

 

If the Scouts' family can get a psychiatrist/psychologist to document an irreversible severely debilitating phobia, your husband has a chance to get this through the COUNCIL Advancement Committee. Otherwise...

 

Requirements are requirements.

 

Have him talk to the special needs folks.

[evmori]

If there is no disability associated with this phobia, the requirement must be met!

[clemlaw]

Actually, it seems to me that they should be able to _almost_ complete the requirement without getting their face wet, if they can swim 75 yards using the side stroke or breast stroke.

 

Once they have learned how to swim 75 yards, I suspect most of the fear will be gone, and they will then be able to do the "jump into water over your head" requirement without difficulty (which will probably entail getting their face wet).

 

Unless these kids have some documented medical issue (which seems very unlikely, since there are two that just happen to be in the same troop), then it seems to me that the most rewarding thing they will get out of Scouting is learning how to swim. I suspect they just need a patient teacher, which their troop probably doesn't have.

 

The actual lessons don't need to be done through Scouting. I suspect there are some swimming instructors in the community who are good at working with kids like this.

 

To earn swimming (and lifesaving) merit badge, the Scout needs to be a _good_ swimmer, and I suppose being a _good_ swimmer isn't absolutely necessary to Scouting. This is probably why those merit badges aren't required any more. But the requirements for Second Class and First Class are the minimums to make sure that someone is safe around the water, and that is necessary to Scouting.

 

It sounds like you already know about resources available to help these kids learn how to swim, and they will be much better served by making those resources known to them, rather than trying to figure out a way around the requirement.(This message has been edited by clemlaw)

[moosetracker]

Well then I will cross my fingers that hubby, Son & daughter-in-law can get them through, Maybe they took lessons from someplace with alot of kids and couldn't get individual time, or their teacher did not have the greatest patience when needing to work with an unusual circumstance.. Otherwise if they can not I hope that there is more to their phobia..

 

Seems weird that they have made adjustments for lack of swimming to get through the MB that would keep you from Eagle, but that you could get stuck on the very same issue that will not let you pass 2nd class requirements.

 

[ScoutNut]

I know of a number of boys who had a severe fear of water, and could not complete the swimming requirements. After a bit of maturity, and some swimming lessons, the boys passed nicely.

 

Give the families the resources, then it is up to them. It is NOT up to the DAC to push boys thru requirements.

[moosetracker]

My husband has been an Advancement Coordinator at troop level for years, enough to know not to push a boy through. Swimming requirements he is doubly consiencious over. He does not need to hear of a drowning of a scout that he worked with and stated had the ability to swim.

 

Depending on how close they are located to us, and their willingness, I know my family will work with them for as long as they need to, they have done so with many scouts in our troop who could not pass the test.. Though issues were never phobia realated, so he always figured over time they would get the muscle, or the maturity to be able to focus on the task at hand enough to pass eventually. With 3 of them, they all don't need to be there at every session (though rarely are they seperated because all of them will drop everything for swimming.) It is more that our district has some distance to it thin but long north to south, we are at the southern most end, hopefully they are not at the northern most end..

 

Just not sure if they will have the know how to conquer a phobia.

[John-in-KC]

moose,

 

It's time to talk not to us, but to your Council Surgeon (there's a volunteer Doc out there serving as such). You need to find a pretty unique resource: A psychologist who understands phobias and swimming . You need strategies and approaches. He may need to talk out the why (and there may be a big why in his life).

 

Good hunting...

[boomerscout]

What have the boys' parents said about this problem? If the boys need fear therapy, this needs to be done by professionals.

Sometimes swim difficulties can be overcome by using a heated pool instead of the standard "cold" water one.

I imagine they do occaisonally wash their face, so a therapist is needed to determine the problem.

All you can do is show them what they're missing by having them watch the waterfront activities instead of going off to do something else.

[evmori]

How about working with these boys to get them over their fear of water! Yeah! Ya know that might be the thing to do instead of trying to find ways to get out of doing the requirement.

[Basementdweller]

My son cannot ride a bicycle but he wants to earn the cycling merit badge. Can I get a doctor to write an excuse for him saying that he is afraid of Bicycles.......

 

Please people, stop trying to short cut the requirements.

 

If they are afraid of the water that much, tell him to go home and park his can on couch where is nice and safe. he isn't boy enough to be a boy scout.

 

 

Can you tell I am getting tired of excuses and all of the over achieving parent. Do the requirement, get the rank..... pretty simple.

[skeptic]

Learning to reach beyond themselves is part of the strength of Scouting. Over the years, I have had a number of boys who had swimming issues; but they were able to run and jump and wrestle, so there was no reason to look for an out. And, yes, in at least one case, it likely kept a boy from making Eagle, since it took him four years to make First Class. But he swam the mile using the elementary back stroke when he was 16, and he stayed with us til he went away to college out of town.

 

It took me literally months to finally pass signaling as a scout. But the effort and struggle were to my benefit. We might be better served if we had a few more big challenges in the early ranks. But we do not usually hear complaints about boys having trouble with knots or lashings; yet that can be just as hard for many, especially ones who are dyslectic or have other similar issues.

 

Scouting is NOT about the ranks. It is about hopefully helping boys grow into young adults, and meeting challenges beyond their everyday encounters. It is also about simply having fun sometimes. Too much focus on advancement does not make the best program. They have enough pressure put on them already in our over programmed society.

[MomToEli]

Seems weird that they have made adjustments for lack of swimming to get through the MB that would keep you from Eagle, but that you could get stuck on the very same issue that will not let you pass 2nd class requirements.

 

The requirements for the Swimming Merit Badge are much more difficult than for the 2nd class requirements. Among other things the boys have to enter the water fully clothed and make flotation devices of their clothing, all in water well over their heads.

 

There are several challenging requirements the T-2-1 progression. Many boys really struggle with doing a pull up at that age. Is it fair to hold them back until they can do at least one? For the son of one of my good friends, that took 6 months. The requirements are *supposed* to be challenging.

 

It would be so much better for the youth we serve if we stop seeing rank advancement as the goal and instead realize the advancement is a consequence of them learning, growing and learning things outside of their comfort zones.

[moosetracker]

OK.. I get the picture. Remember in my very first post the first solution I had was that my 3 Lifeguard/Swim instructors work with them.. Not How do we get them off?

But heres the thing the DE and the DFS did not give this SM the answer of NO or Only with written medical proof of a disability.. Instead they came to my husband and said, It is your decision on what you wish to do as an alternative, or if you wish to do one..

This makes is seem like it is not as cut and dry as you all make it out to be.

I guess I have a sense of what these boys may be going through. Having on 3 separate occasions in my young childhood, before the age of 7 coming close to drowning.. Twice begin saved by a lifeguard on duty, and once being saved only by a miracle of an adult coming into a deserted place except for my sister & I who neither of us could swim and saving me at the last possible moment. I will swim and enjoy swimming, but will never put my face under water without a panic attack. All my swimming stokes are side strokes and back strokes, or I do the breast stroke purposely wrong so my face swings from side to side, but never will go into the water..

With two being petrified it may not be near drowning, but it may be something in which they witnessed some drown and was unable to help save them or who knows. All I am saying is this fear may be more than a silly childish fear, or reaching outside their comfort zone. This may be the same type of fear you may get if I asked you to walk into a burning building. My family may be able to work through it with them, or may not depending on what set off the initial fear in the first place.

 

[SSScout]

First, this is not an emergency that needs an IMMEDIATE solution. It will take time to help these boys overcome their fear of water. Second, there are folks out there that understand this and can help much more than us well meaning email jockeys can provide from the other side of the country. You (or better yet, the parent) needs to seek out these people. Red Cross, swim clubs, Scout Council, local county water rescue squad, YMCA, somebody will know. You (or the parent) won't, unless you make the effort to find them.

 

There is no telling from whence this relunctance stems. Likely the boys will never know themsleves. It may even be related to other things in the family, and I doubt if any Scout leader will ever glean that answer. If the boys have no other "behavioral" problem, then address the water problem.

My thoughts, from some personal experience... washing face in sink does help. I bet these boys have issues even with this. Blowing bubbles in the sink. Shower water on face. Gotta sneak up on the demon and beat him. Have they tried goggles or a face mask? Check with a scuba club or shop nearby. I've heard of Scouts being allowed to use these.

Rewards of some kind for each minor step succeeded can help. Candy? Movie trip? Pizza? Lots of "attaboy"s.

It can't be forced, one has to (in Cub lingo) "Make it Fun, and Keep it Simple", and take it sloooow. Ultimately, the Cub has to WANT to beat it. Adults can't shame or beat him into doing it.

It will happen, have faith...