Scout Spirit requirement

[Eagle732]

Tendefoot through Life requirement states: "Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life." The the Eagle requirement states: "Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life." My question is what's the difference between these two requirements?

[scoutldr]

No difference that I know of.

[evmori]

Same thing just worded differently.

[packsaddle]

Yep. I agree.

[Twocubdad]

Which begs the question, why the difference?

 

I have no idea. But I agree with the others and wouldn't read anything into it.

[evmori]

Why? Could be the younger Scouts might not understand the principles wording.

[NJCubScouter]

Well, I think there is a difference, but the difference is in how the Scout passes the requirement, not in what he actually does in his everyday life to pass it. The lower-rank version really just says to live the Scout Oath and Law in your everyday life, and implies that by doing so, you have "demonstrated" Scout spirit. The Eagle requirement doesn't actually mention the words "Scout spirit," but seems to have an additional requirement that you "demonstrate" that you have lived the Scout Oath and Law in your everyday life. If that was the only difference, I would say the meaning was really the same. But there is another sentence in the Eagle requirement, the oft-discussed requirement to "List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf, including parents/guardians, religious, educational and employer references." I take that to mean that one of the ways you demonstrate that you have lived the Scout Oath and Law in your everyday life, when going for Eagle, is to provide the names of people who can attest that you have done so. When we talk about the recommendation requirement in this forum (as we often do), it is easy to forget that it is not just an isolated requirement that appears on the application, but it is actually part of the Eagle "Scout spirit" requirement. (The one that doesn't actually say "Scout spirit.") I guess that for the lower ranks, the Scout's conduct is just observed generally by the Scoutmaster, and that's usually it. (Well, that assumes that the SM has to sign off that requirement, which is true in our troop, but maybe not in others.)

 

So as I said, I don't think the "living the Scout Oath and Law" part is different, but how you show you did it is somewhat different.

 

To make matters more confusing, this requirement is being changed for T, 2C and 1C starting Jan. 1. For those ranks, the Scout will have to "Discuss four specific examples of how you have lived the points of the Scout Law in your daily life." (That's from the Tenderfoot requirement; for 2C the Scout must discuss a different four examples, and for 1C a different four examples. Now, what it doesn't say, but I think they MIGHT have meant, is that each example must be from a different point of the Law, so that by 1C, the Scout will have covered all 12 points. Any thoughts on that?)

[Eagle732]

NJ, thanks for the opinion, I too think there is a difference but I just couldn't put my finger on what it was. So when the Scouts provides his character references does the SM check them? I thought that's why the letters were sent to the EBOR. Suppose the references chosen by the Scout all provide glowing recommendations (and why would he choose anyone who would say something bad about him?) but the SM, after years of camping and meetings, knows different. Can the SM not sign off on Scout Spirit if there are ongoing problems, even if the references say otherwise?

[ScoutNut]

Only the EBOR members can read the recommendation letters. You should not even have access to them.

 

As SM, you have known the Eagle candidate for a number of years. By now you should know him pretty well. You should know what kind of a person he is, both in, and out, of Scouting. You should have been discussing Scout Spirit with him all along.

 

 

You should not have to read references to know what they will say about an Eagle candidate.

[Beavah]

Can the SM not sign off on Scout Spirit if there are ongoing problems, even if the references say otherwise?

 

Yah, of course.

 

Da Scoutmaster is responsible for decidin' who tests and can sign off for advancement requirements in the troop, and his signature is required on the Eagle Rank Application. And we have a whole set of procedures for appeal if da Scoutmaster chooses not to sign off, eh?

 

Can't be much clearer than that. Da Scoutmaster may choose not to sign off on Scout Spirit or anything else, and that means no advancement (though the scout can appeal).

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Eagle732, I'm getting the feeling this is not purely hypothetical. Was the point of your original question that although this particular Scout was passed on Scout spirit from Tenderfoot through Life (maybe by you, maybe by your predecessors, assuming you are the SM), there might be a different standard for Eagle that would make it possible to justify not passing him on this final rank? If so, I think that unless this Scout's behavior has suddenly and seriously gotten worse, it's going to be difficult to justify not passing him at this point. (Assuming that there is an appeal and you are asked about it.) As several people including me have said, the standard isn't really different for Eagle, just the procedure. However, the Scoutmaster has to decide whether in good conscience he can sign off that the Scout has shown Scout spirit. If not, as others have said, there is a right of appeal.

[Eagle732]

NJ, I didn't want to get into specifics. I do have a problem with a Life Scout who is working on his Eagle project. I never had a problem with him until he got caught cheating on his project and not following the district policies. Since that time I have had several discussions with him without success. I am about to level some severe disciplinary action over his last stunt. I figure I'll do him a favor and deal with him before the committee has a chance. They want to dismiss him from the troop.

[darboy55]

Demonstrate that your living..... what are you doing today is the question.......

 

Demonstrate that you live........ what have you done and what are you doing...

 

Yep no real difference... but when I review this with scouts I always ask past, present and future.... in other words... how have you, how do you and how will you... this is an opportunity to give a challenge to the scout to look back, look at the present and how can I be better... give it some thought...

 

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

If their intent was to clarify the requirement by changing the wording, I think that they missed the boat. Scout spirit requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class are now quite specific, with Eagle I'm not so sure.

 

What was the intent behind deleting the term Scout Spirit when it is used on Tenderfoot through Life requirements?

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to separate the requirements into subsets, separating the "Scout Spirit" and the letters? The Scoutmaster signs off on "Scout Spirit" based on his dealings with and observations of the Scout. He doesn't really have any idea whether or not the names provided are actually willing to provide letters of recommendation for the Scout attesting to him demonstrating the principles of Scouting in his daily life, yet he is expected to sign off for them.

[acco40]

A Scoutmaster "signs-off" on the Scout Spirit requirement by what he puts on the Eagle application.

 

UNIT APPROVAL (personal signatures required)

Signature of unit leader____________________________________

Scoutmaster, Coach or Advisor

 

My interpretation is that if a Scoutmaster does not feel the Eagle applicant "worthy" for whatever reason, they should not give "approval" by signing the application.