desertrat77

Our district is rural, many miles of open prairie and a long way from anything, including the council office. Our district has no round tables. Haven't had them for years. They are not missed, nor mourned, nor lamented in the least by the district nor the units. No pressure or recriminations from the council. No one makes any apology for not having them. Wonderful! Prior to retiring from the military and settling down, I had had a gutful of RT nonsense from four different districts in other states. Same old stuff, same snubs, just delivered in different regional accents. Joe Bob and others before me did an awesome job of describing the typical RT and the usual cast of characters. Switching gears to where RT works: Click, I'd say you are on the right path. In fact, measured by my previous experiences, your RT efforts outshine anything I've seen elsewhere. Kudos and thanks for your leadership. Mattman, I LOL'd re the free beer comment. It would get folks to RT! Can you imagine if a RT consisted of a glass of wine, or pilsner, or an N/A beverage, snacks and a chance to visit with other scouters? A setting to relax, be treated like an adult, and have conversations about scouting or anything else would probably be well received. If RT works for your district, great. If not, axe it and don't look back. Who will be broken hearted about missing another meeting? The metrics folks at council? The career district folks that love to hear their own voices? Maybe. Many of them have no where else to go. Regardless, RT won't be missed the hard working men and women at the unit level. You'll have given them the best gift possible--time.

I too am stepping down from my district job to be unassigned committee member.... Bottom line: I was not performing at the level I needed to, by my own assessment. Too many things going on in life outside of scouting. Sure, the other district folks were kind, too kind, assuring me that whatever I did was better than nothing or just letting the position go vacant. I thought about it and decided it was better to step down for conscience sake. Never liked it in the past when someone was a patch-wearer, a name on a piece of paper. Sure, it helped the district (on paper, for recharter time) to have my name plugged into the position, but that still doesn't make it right. The vacant position will have a better chance of being filled by someone who will do the job properly. And if no one steps up? So be it. Scouting will carry on. PS My concern is at the unit level, the place where true scouting takes place. Lots of people in Basement's shoes, where they are the sole person bearing the burden, the difference between keeping the unit alive or folding altogether. Because there are lots of units just dying, outright, when the solitary leader gets sick, tired, burned out and has to step down. Not a soul will step up, though the scouts really want what the BSA has to offer. As I get older, I'm realizing that there are limits to what a leader can do--or should do--to keep an organization alive. Never would have admitted that even a year ago. There is a point, for sake of family and mental/physical health, where you cash in your chips. The game will either continue or close after you leave. You can only stay at the table so long.

Perdidochas, your post made my day, thanks and best wishes to you and your troop.

LeCastor, I'll keep it positive! I'm positive you should say "no." Once upon a time, I would have subscribed to the thought you shared--"anything I do is better than what was done before I came, which was nothing." Truth is, your conscience won't let you actually do that. You'll feel the need to perform well, fix things, etc. Even if everyone says "Oh LeCastor, fret not, we just appreciate you doing what you can!" you won't really believe that. Your standards are higher. So you'll try to keep all the plates spinning, and the next thing you know, you aren't doing any of your duties well enough. Diminishing returns. Stress. Dissatisfaction. Burnout. Irony department: you'll also take all of the whippings that the predecessor (now long gone) may have deserved. And the whippings that the district leadership deserves for being lazy not having recruited a new person earlier. By saying no, it will have two benefits. One, the district will know that you have boundaries. Gotta set those. Two, they'll actually have to recruit someone to do the job, instead of loading up someone who is already doing the work of three people.

SP, your words resonant. Recently I've realized that I've got to learn to say "no." Wasn't always that way. Nose to the grind stone, step into the breach, etc., regardless of the cost. It's hard to step back. But sometimes it's the right thing to do for your sanity. The district will either figure things out or continue to flounder. Along those lines, I was talking to a non-scouting friend about scouting in general, and the challenges: declining numbers, units folding, parents unwilling to help in any capacity, self-satisfied leaders at district and above. His words hit home: "History is filled with worthwhile organizations that thrived for decades and then died. Why should the BSA be any different? As great as it is, if it doesn't change its ways, are you personally going to stem the tide?" I'm not saying the BSA is going to die because a couple of scouters step back or quit. But my friends words sure put things in perspective. Even a few years ago, I would have viewed such a position as defeatist. But no more. Life is too short to fight certain battles.

St, let me clarify. Sure, that smart phone can help a scout access a recipe or identify a constellation. But usually, be it in scouting or anywhere else, there are a bunch of slack-jawed, glaze-eyed people sitting around, not talking interacting with each other, thumbing away on their smart phones, ear buds shoved halfway in their head. Completely unaware of their environment. GPS and cameras have their place. But not to the point of declaring technology as a method. As for scouts using technology in an inappropriate manner, I think instilling the principles of the oath and law covers it.

I can see the advantage to having mini medals available, but I doubt there would be an audience big enough to support the effort to make it happen. Lots of folks don't wear medals, even at formal occasions, and these occasions are usually just once or twice a year.

Scouts are drawn to scouting primarily for outdoor activities...things they can't do at home or in town. Technology, as others have said, is a tool. A useful one at times. But it is hardly a method. Scouting is too sedentary as it is without adding more passive "activity," sitting around, silent, staring at a screen. However, there is a touch of irony to this whole tech angle. If National wants to lead the charge for advancing the use of technology, they should start right there at HQ, and upgrade their abysmal website, and antiquated/mind numbing registration and rechartering processes.

LeCastor, I know you meant no disrespect to SP, and you are right, it wouldn't hurt at all to take on a necessary task. LOL, those are the guys with the beads and belt cups! Critter songs too.

[Edited after I read Baden P's excellent post below]

Excellent discussion. The BSA's winning formula is sitting right under its nose. Kids want to be outdoors. (Most anyway...some are bona fide couch potatoes, but that is true of any generation). Kids want to camp, hike, chop wood, start fires, cook a kebab, swim, boat, shoot rifles and look at stars. Interesting that these skills and activities haven't changed that much over the decades. Nor a scout's enthusiasm to be outdoors. A scout from 1920 could show up to a good BSA summer camp today and fit right it with only a minor learning curve. However, for the last couple decades, the outdoors has been a sideline activity in the BSA's overall strategy. Management 101/micromanagement/metrics/church basement scouting/merit badge fair/fundraising/powerpoint training has taken the forefront. Frankly, not many people find these activities very fulfilling. These things are supposed to be a means to an end, but they became the primary focus. So adults and kids find it easy to drift away, or not sign up at all. Scoutergripper is absolutely right, the BSA does a poor job at marketing. Whether it is the baggy, ugly official uniform, or the clique-like, exclusive clubby mentality of long-term scouters who view themselves as The Very Best Scouters in the World who drive off new volunteers (along with new energy and fresh ideas), or the certified non-outdoorsmen/women on the professional staff, or the invisible units in many places that do no public service, there is no end to the list of things that need improving if the BSA is going to turn the trend around. I'll give National some credit, as I've seen some effort to focus back on high adventure and the outdoors and general. But that trail is steep and has many switchbacks. By openly encouraging the ideal that scouting is sedentary (starting with WB), there are many scouters, at all levels, that really aren't sold on the outdoors, and don't like their Centennial Uniforms to smell of campfire smoke. So that's the challenge. The solution is hidden away in the darkest archives of the National Museum. Only Green Bar Bill and scouters like him will save the BSA. The Dr. Deming fans and the powerpoint crowd will still be looking at metrics and talking about FOS goals as the curtain closes.

LeCastor, I'm thankful for them too. I think of them often. As the years go by, I appreciate them more and more. Would love to be able to sit down with them, and have a good long talk (me listening and them talking!). All the better if there was a campfire and big coffee pot involved.

Ah, the 8th edition, my first handbook! We made the best of it. But very anemic, that handbook. Wasn't sure what I was missing as a scout until I read a copy of a '60s era handbook. Holy cow, what a contrast! So GB Bill came off the bench and rewrote the handbook, in its entirety. That 9th edition is still one of my favorites. It was welcomed like rain on a parched land. He aced it. Scouting survived the "Improved Scouting Program" through the dedication of old school scouters who carried on the REAL traditions and spirit of scouting, and outdoors emphasis. It didn't matter how silly the ISP was in reality--we scouts were benefiting from real scouting, pre-ISP scouting, regardless.

LeCastor, at the risk of me missing the point of an otherwise humorous comment you made (too late!), it just isn't the bling. Even if the current or ODLR uniform was free of every badge, bangle, gee gaw or gimcrack, I still don't consider it "outdoor clothing." Some here feel otherwise, and that's fine. My viewpoint is the scout uniform, for many years, was designed primarily for in-town, sedentary activity--passive listening at conferences and training, standing in line at buffets, sitting on picnic benches, observing powerpoint presentations in camp mess halls, etc. It's over priced, unappealing to many people (BSA and non-BSA alike) and not any where near the the category of outdoor clothing. As for the handbook, I think Stosh has articulated the matter quite well. The only thing I'll add: whether it is the handbook, or the uniform, or WB or anything else, the non-outdoors people in the BSA have been slowly trying to edge aside the outdoor emphasis of the BSA. It started in the '70s, halted briefly when GB Bill re-wrote the Scout Hand book, but picked up again a few years later. Only recently have I detected a movement back toward the adventure part of the BSA at the national/council level. I hope it sticks. Real scouting and real leadership training takes place in the outdoors.

Well said!

LeCastor, you are spot on about those old campaign hats--dusty, soiled, shaped all kinds of ways on accident or by the owner. That's the way they should be. My hat? I should have used a different word than "crushed"--I think "destroyed" would be a better choice. Our family moved right after my trip to Philmont and the packing company did quite a number on my hat. Just had to throw it away. As far as replacing it? Well, we had moved from AZ to AK. I wore a toque most of the time in the outdoors. So I didn't miss my old hat much. Then as a scouter (starting in the '80s) in various places, I saw the campaign hat being worn as a parade ground item. Plus, the BSA model was expensive and those old surplus versions weren't available. So it was a ball hat or a boonie hat in the field, no hat in town.

Wore one (an army surplus knock off) when our troop went to Philmont in 1977 (prescribed uniform item for the contingent). Didn't wear it on the trail. It got crushed a couple months later, haven't worn one since.

DC, I think this and your original post were well said, well spoken--if anything, I was curmudgeonly, thus obscuring the discussion. Making change is a lost art, LOL, even with the registers that tell the cashier exactly how much to give back

I see your points, well said. As mentioned, I take a more nostalgic view of the old scout books. One of the reasons why the books from my scouting days are so valuable to me is their physical characteristics. Well worn, notes in the margins, etc. Today's e-book won't "age" the same, I believe. However, I'm no Luddite. There is a place for electronic media. But the "smart" phone and GPS are still no substitute for an actual book and compass in the boonies. Folks can pack an e-device and the various recharging systems, but all they are doing is replacing a book that weighs a couple ounces. As powerful as an e-device can be, I still give the edge to printed media. The book a) is ready to be used "on demand," b) can be read energy-free during daylight hours and at night with a couple dollar flashlight c) weighs about the same as the e-device and charging system, d) is far tougher and "scout proof" than any electronic device. Bonus: those un-used chapters can be used to start a fire So it shouldn't be either/or. Both old and new have their place. The only toe I'll dip into the Luddite pond is this: I think our society has become too dependent on the web and fancy electronics to perform basic life functions that humans used to do with their brains and pen and pencil (or a book). I saw this during my military career. The lights go out, the batteries die, the generators stop and....? "Now what do we do?" "Well, turn on your flashlight, open that box over there, and pull out the binder, legal pad and pencil...we can still get the job done...."

A few times a year, I take my early '70s BSA Handbook and Fieldbook off the shelf and flip thru the pages. I also have my Rifle and Shotgun Shooting MB pamphlet, same era, that I look thru occasionally. It still has that stain of strawberry jam across the front, when I brought it to lunch with me one day at summer camp, '76. Part nostalgia, part skills refreshment. Can many of us still access the data on the 15-year old floppy disks that we just had to keep? I can't. Seems that old data are hard to re-access once the software moves forward or is discontinued.

Welcome back! My hiatus was 17 years, and I was amazed at the changes. Thanks to all for the info, very valuable. I took my ordeal in May 76, and was one of the last scouts in my lodge to purchase the old-style Sioux Chief back patch (I was lucky, there weren't many left). The biggest change I saw in OA when I came back: no longer the brotherhood of honor campers, the OA is now the BSA's honor society. "In 1998, the Order of the Arrow became recognized as Scouting's National Honor Society when it expanded its reach beyond camping to include a greater focus on leadership development, membership extension, adventurous programming, and broader service to Scouting and the community." (http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/OrderoftheArrow.aspx) I could go on and on about this change, but suffice to say, I think the OA lost something when it adopted this new vision.

Tahawk, good thoughts, particularly regarding the hat and neckerchief. The broad rim hat used to be a functional item. Then it turned into an expensive parade-ground item, and has fallen into general disuse. Full size neckerchief: a few years ago, I caught everyone napping on ebay and bought an old BSA full size nc for a song. That thing is the most comfortable and functional neckerchief I've seen. But just like the hat, the nc turned into a parade-ground-"open ranks harch" item, where the priority went from a item you can actually use in the field to a quest for perfect rolling when in town. Form trumped function, and folks stopped using these items because they were just decorations.

Sentinel, thanks for the link, that made my day! The comments were quite interesting...as a bonus, there were a few bona fide smart alecks chiming in.

Qwazse, I'm tracking with you. Regarding fashion, all I can say is anything off the rack at Bass Pro is going to be more fashionable than any current BSA uniform, and will be for a longer period. Concur 100 percent re pants and neckerchiefs. LOL, epaulets! I recall seeing the ODLR for first time in the '80s and particularly those epaulets. This being a family forum, I can't type what I said, suffice to say it wasn't favorable. There is zero need for epaulets in scouting. If someone really wants to know what level you serve at, they can glance at your position patch. Interesting thoughts re the pinnacle patch concept, I like it. Not everyone can go to a jamboree, but any active patrol can camp.