desertrat77

Eagle, I agree. The skill awards were designed to be handed out "right then." SM kept a bunch in his brief case. Skill awards for British neckerchief: I think as a scout, I would have made the same trade!

My deepest condolences....

...I was proud of my eight (?) skill awards, and I sounded like a rattling junk truck if I ran while wearing them!

Good memories, Stosh. I recall my first summer camp. At that particular age, I "thought" I didn't like eggs. One day at camp our troop was scheduled for an early morning hike. The camp cook got up before normal breakfast time, and with us scouts gathered around the griddle in the kitchen, cooked us fried eggs to order. I had a choice. Eat the eggs or go on the hike without breakfast. So I ate them. They were sublime! First of many great life lessons I learned as a scout. That same camp had the peanut butter plan that you mentioned. At each meal, there were tins of USDA-issue peanut butter and jelly on each table. And a loaf of white bread. Don't like what's served? Make a sandwich. But in that crisp mountain air, we'd eat dinner till nothing was left, then have a couple sandwiches for dessert.

I like all BBQ. I've had good BBQ in the midwest, deep South, and even NJ. Yes, NJ. I was shocked. Darn good flavor, and even a little zing. Korean BBQ: love that too. The Koreans have so many different seasons, spices, and peppers that make all of their cuisine unique. Wonderful!

Interesting re the consideration for picky eaters. I guess I'm old. I would never have a plan B for picky eaters. If a scout doesn't like what is being served, he can bring his own. Or go hungry. Usually, hunger will induce a picky eater to try something other "chicken" nuggets and other "food" of like kind. Naturally, if a scout has a bona fide food allergy/medical/religious concern, I'll go the extra mile to accommodate. But Johnny doesn't like stew because it has carrots in it? Sorry. Johnny can work up some courage and have some stew. Or watch everyone else eat. His choice.

Well said! I've been approached a couple times about organizing an MBU. I've said no each time. The scouts are being cheated by these MBUs. The scouts are smarter and have more initiative than they are often given credit for. If they want to earn the MB, they will figure out a way to get it done. Spoon feeding is not a worthy goal/aim/method.

Enjoying the discussion, learning several things that I missed during my long hiatus from scouting years ago. As for the terms "class A" and "class B," I'm reminded of a concept an English teacher shared years ago concerning definitions: "usage determines meaning." We have the formal "dictionary" or "regulation" meaning for a word (or in this case, a phrase). And then we have the meaning used by the masses. Usually the latter carries the day. In my travels, I've noted that many more troops than not use the class A/B system, and it works quite well for them. If parents and scouts understand clearly what class A/B mean, and people show up in the right place, at the right time, in the right clothing, more power to them. I'd rather not get National involved in something so practical. Despite their best intentions, things could get quite convoluted.

MBUs are contrary to the whole MB concept. No initiative on scout's part is necessary. No need to show evidence of comprehension or skill attainment. No opportunity to glean insights from the counselor over several meetings in a small group setting. MBU: Just show up, join the crowd, eat lunch, and leave later that afternoon new with 3 new MBs. "Senior Cub Scouting" is all it is. Looks good for the district/council metrics! Here's proof that we actually support scouting...look at this cool flyer! But the scout learns little/nothing.

DuctTape, well said. The troop sounds like more like a cub pack than a scout troop. Unfortunately, we are seeing this more and more, not only in scouts but also in school and sports. Mom and dad doing everything and the kids show up and have fun. As you said, the best way is to learn for themselves (how to organize, budget, raise funds, etc.). As I look back, the best way I learned about money was as a young patrol member, planning a menu, making a food list (after checking the patrol box/cupboard for what was on hand), collecting money, and shopping as a patrol. The concept is sound. Learning what a dollar is worth...how to hunt for a bargain...how to plan...all good stuff to be used in real life, which is right around the corner when you're a scout.

I concur!

As a scout, I wanted to go to Philmont. I mowed lawns and sold newspapers in front of the commissary on base. My earnings went into a tin can in the kitchen. When it was time to pay up, I gave the SM what was in the tin can. I was still a bit short, but my parents paid the difference (bless them). The troop treasurer should not have to be a part-time CPA.

I think most people attempt to be respectful to the flag, even if they make errors. I try to assess their intent, more so than their technique. Though the latter can certainly be eye-opening at times! Interesting discussion/perspectives re the hand salute. Though vets are authorized to use the hand salute in civvies, I play it by ear. If the majority of folks present are civilians and placing their hand of their heart, I do the same. If it's a big crowd and mixture of civilians and vets, I'll render the hand salute. Also mulling over the non-vet rendering the hand salute scenario. I rather doubt I'd say anything. They probably don't know any better. Or they might outright fib about being a vet. Is it right? No. Is it worth a dust-up in public? Probably not. I don't think it encroaches into stolen valor, etc. Now, if someone is going about in a mil uniform, and it's clear from bearing/behavior/dress/appearance that he's not a vet, a chat may be in order...

Stosh, as a gesture of solidarity, I'll do the same. I'll wear my sole shirt that displays my four mighty incredible knots Exceptions: I'm popping some corn and pulling for the Chiefs. Coke instead of beer, but only because I need to drive to pick my kid up from an activity later tonight. Also, I regret to say I have no mentor pins to improperly wear. I'll make up for it by wearing five or six temporary patches dangling from my right pocket button. Mil issue green socks instead of BSA issue (I've done this for the last several years, true story...though I've retired, I just can't bring myself to throw them away).

Post script--Lu Ta, I forgot to say earlier, please let us know how it turns out, and thanks for your courage and leadership.

Lu Ta, absolutely! At least they'll go home with something! Kind of reminds me of when I was a Tenderfoot scout and selling programs at the local university football games. They let us scouts into the exclusive/tailgate parking area where the important boosters had their RVs and pre-game beverages. They'd invite us in the RVs and chat for a bit, buy a couple programs and include a big tip. Though everyone conducted themselves like ladies and gentleman, I can't imagine two Tenderfoot scouts today wandering around a bunch of RVs, with no adult escort, selling programs to distinguished alumni who were in the process of enjoying their third 7/7. Times have certainly changed. It was also my first introduction to drunk college students, especially the ones hanging around outside the stadium. Interesting to reflect, regardless of how far in the tank they were, they were always kind to us scouts. They just wanted to talk or tell stories.

Though I certainly understand how pesky some of the casino patrons are, I don't see the city council making any kind of ruling. And if they do, they'll side with the casino. The park is a public place and folks can chose to be there nor not. The casino has more money and can afford better lawyers/PR people to speak at the city council meeting, and to make calls and "influence and shape events" before hand. The casino is not going to give up its free bus stop easily. Sorry to say, it's time to find another place to meet. Joe Bob is right--popcorn sales! This is that rare occasion that BSA popcorn is a better value for the dollar than losing it slowly at the blackjack table (you hold at 19, dealer has 20...you hold at 18, dealer has 19...drip, drip, drip).

Safety/security/legal mandates: no flexibility, must follow for the well being of the scouts and the BSA. Pins on shirt pocket: an administrative issue.

I played intramural softball and football (flag) for many years during my military career. Including one last season of football at the age of 49, during my last deployment. A bit slower than I was at 29, but I could still block, play center, some positions on defense, etc. It really shocked the younger folks, but once they figured out that I still take a hit as well as receive one, it sure built bonds and dialogue that normally would not have happened otherwise. Plus, I really enjoyed the competition and camaraderie. I agree that sports can be part of a person's lifestyle, well into their senior years. But I make a distinction between the casual city league and the typical must-win travel team. In one league, Johnny rides his bike to practice a couple times a week, or mom drops him off, and he's home soon thereafter for a late dinner and homework. In the standard travel league, the entire family schedule is planned around the team...a huge expense in terms of time, energy, and money. I'm not sure it's worth the sacrifice for many kids.

Uniform violations can be measured in two categories. Disrespect/discredit is one category, administrative violations is the other. Wearing a button with profanity on the shirt pocket...wearing the uniform into a strip club...etc...disrespect and discredit. Wearing a council or mentor pin on a pocket flap is an administrative violation, of a uniform guide. Whatever the issue is, it's internal to the BSA. Externally, it doesn't bring discredit upon the BSA because the public a) is none the wiser and b) really doesn't give a hoot. PS Internally to the BSA, people are volunteers. Not enlistees under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. As long as no discredit/disrespect is involved, I'm of the opinion live and let live.

Mash, that's what it's all about--kudos!

Sports have demanded more and more time over the decades. There is something wrong when a child spends more time in the mini-van, in transit, than she/he spends on the playing field, or with friends, or just relaxing. Long commutes, eating fast food, watching movies...then play the game...then more fast food, do some homework in the van before it gets dark, get home, go to sleep, get up, go to school, repeat. Practice after school, on the weekends. And now, we have games Sunday morning. To what end? I love sports, but they can turn into a type of servitude. For 99 percent of the adults and kids that play sports, they should be recreation. Fun. Not work. Stosh's high school experience matches mine. Except for his test scores Mine indicated that I would probably end up working in a lumber yard, to borrow a line. "What's wrong with lumber? I own two lumber yards." "I notice you don't spend much time there." "Not sure where they are at."

Mrs. Rat and I eloped, thus circumventing the whole wedding process/industry! As I read your post, I really like the whole-family approach...very cool!

Krampus, I subscribe to what Stosh said: the adults will put on a dynamite ceremony, but a scout-run one will be more memorable and meaningful. Especially to the Eagle. And the adults will be wowed at the intellectual capabilities of their scouts. The adults are well-meaning and want to show their respect for the Eagle, and make it a top-notch event. But then it turns into a major production, over which the Eagle has little/no input. Which is ironic, given that self-sufficiency, organizing, etc., are all attributes of an Eagle. We are about to present him an award that recognizes his ability to forge his own path, but yet at the ceremony commemorating that very quality, he is like the groom at a wedding--a mere functionary. Show up at this time, this uniform, stand here, then here, try to smile, and don't screw up and drop the mother's pin We talk about "boy-led" scouting. An Eagle ceremony should be a reflection of that principle. I like the format for your troop...sounds like the Eagle could really work some of his own personal preferences into the proceedings. Please let us know how it goes, and congratulations to the Eagle and Mr./Mrs. Krampus!

Krampus, I didn't know there was a TX pledge, but it doesn't surprise me If I'm in TX during a ceremony with the state pledge, I'll stand politely. Reminds me of attending sister service ceremonies...I was Air Force, but when Army/Navy/Marines/Coast Guard would sing their service song, I'd stand at attention with them. Sometimes, I'd sing along too (but not too loudly), though I was/am very proud of the AF and think the AF Song is best of the bunch. But I must admit, "The Army Goes Rolling Along" is a very catchy tune!