desertrat77

Brain drizzle: Krampus and Joe Bob visit wayward scouters, like those guys in Renax's old troop and certain professional staffers. You set 'em straight and as well as scare the daylights out of them.

Krampus, you've got your work cut out for you...with trends these days, your frightful visage might result in more popcorn sales!

SP, this is an excellent question. However, at the risk of me being a smarty pants, the problem with the leaders who did this to Renax isn't one of training, but of character....

A pint (or two) of Guinness would greatly improve morale. The egg: given a choice, I'd prefer it fried. Between toast. With half a pound of bacon.

Stosh, as I reflect, it would be best to carry an orange as well as an egg, so one can have the benefit of Vit C plus a natural container to cook the egg!

CChoate, Camp cards--you just described our council/district dynamic to a T. The only difference is the council's camp card works great up north, and down here in the southern part of the state, not so much. The council finally realized that their Big City card doesn't work worth a hoot out here in the sticks. So they offered to help districts create their own that utilize local businesses. Pro: local businesses like the idea and want to participate. Con: our council's lack of communication, red tape, missed deadlines, poor record keeping, and inability to produce quality products in a timely manner have prevented any measurable success with a local camp card. Truly the lemon isn't worth the squeeze. PS. On the other hand, they've stopped the pressure for rural districts to push the Big City card. And they haven't invited themselves to our district meeting to push FOS. I guess I should count my blessings!

Stosh's assessment is correct. Society has tried its best to stifle confident leadership. It's the age of the manager now.

Dusting off the grey cells.... I recall a photo from my old Fieldbook (second edition, early '70s). They cooked an egg on a spit. The spit was a sliver of wood, whittled square so the egg would turn. Tiny holes, opposite ends of egg. Sliver thru the egg. Spit rests on tiny "Ys" over the coals. Gently turn every so often. Never attempted it but the photo is etched in my mind.

Renax, here is what jumps out at me: The COR, CC, current SM and the ASM in question made this decision without giving you the courtesy of a face-to-face meeting a couple weeks ago. They just decided a course of action, and let you continue to operate under the assumption that the original plan was a go. If they wanted to go to Plan B, they should have informed you and respectfully offered you another position. Instead, they just dodged it and let you find out when everything reached critical mass. After your hard work. And without them telling you in person. They behaved like cads. Their actions are frankly rather low. Is this a group of people that you want to work with? I've learned the hard way, from similar situations, that something like this isn't a one-time incident. No doubt there is another unit out there that would welcome you.

I'm tracking with Joe Bob's plan: let day camp die. Then do something else that is easier to plan and tailored to your pack and/or den. There is no event in the BSA worth the kind of logistical and bureaucratic troubles that day camp usually presents. If the people and plans aren't in place, write it off, turn the page, and go do something really cool with your pack/den. Naturally the DE and others will not agree with that. No one wants to fill out a report or JTE worksheet that shows "zero" for cub day camp. The metrics will take a hit. Can't have that. So folks have to move heaven/earth to put on an event, regardless of its quality, just to say that it was held. Looking back on my cub scout days, which were golden, we didn't have cub day camp. Dens did things together over the summer. RememberSchiff's advice is sublime: enjoy your family vacation. The BSA will be there when you get back.

Krampus, I hope those council budget/project prioritization gurus on your list for an official seasonal visit, in full Krampus regalia! :)

What record was set at NOAC? Attendance? When I said the OA was slowly dying, I wasn't just referring to raw data. I am speaking about quality as well as quantity. Please check out the previous posts that compare/contrast OA past/present. That's where I was going.

There are latrines, then there are latrines. The outdoor latrines in the photos indicate neglect. The wood is old, exposed to weather, and looks like heck. Everything else looks shabby and repaired piecemeal. The one photo shows a giant cement circle on the floor. Stool is broke? Don't repair it or replace it. Just put a cement circle over the hole and cover it up. Yep. Good enough. I have no problem with outdoor latrines and cold water wash ups. But doggone it, there has to be a standard. Good design. Painted. Fixtures, primitive as they may be, should be sturdy, clean and in good repair. But I didn't pick that up from the photos. The council spent all of that money on the training palace and other stuff. They could have bulldozed the old latrines in camp, and built new similar structures. It's not the austerity of the latrines that bothers me. It's the neglect and misdirection of resources. And I'm not even in that council. Yet unfortunately it is not an isolated situation.

Good points, Stosh. The pageantry of making Eagle has increased, but the real meaning behind the rank has decreased quite a bit.

Krampus, I agree. The OA is now just a club. If those bitter old cats really cared about the OA, they'd try to bring back the old spirit of the organization, and not the patch collecting clique it has become. The obligation meant something, and there are times I still think about certain phrases from it. The OA is just another example of how something can be diluted to the point where the original meaning is lost. I think there may have been some resentment in the past about the ordeal and other aspects that did not favor "participation trophy" syndrome. So the BSA decided to let some air of the tires. However, it is interesting that the same is not true with the Eagle rank...heck, you'd think making Eagle was akin to a coronation these days. The BSA has no problem with the exclusiveness of that part of the organization.

Eagle, I know you are a can-do leader. I think you are looking at the situation clearly. If no one steps up, then I'd recommend letting it die and don't look back. The good news: as new scouters arrive in the district, and memories of the old/disorganized day camp fade, it can be dusted off and launched again, the way it should be. This dynamic has happened in my district with some annual events. Some old timers ran folks off, and/or ran a shoddy event. Then the old timers left and the event died for a few years. New folks came on board, and thus begins a fresh start.

@@Stosh, those training center showers are absolutely necessary...one can work up quite a sweat sitting indoors, listening to speakers all the live long day, taking notes, standing in the buffet line, and chit chatting....

Non-profit orgs are experts at throwing away dollars. Even if they have the best of intentions. The waste, poor prioritization of resources and ensuing inefficiency can be staggering at times.

Incredible! The waste/misdirection of resources aside, I'd rather join you and everyone else in the non-AC mess hall, peak of TX summer heat, with a heaping plate of chili mac and steamed carrots, and enjoy the camaraderie with you all instead of sitting in an ergonomic chair in the Training Palace as the briefer belabors slide 17 of his 49 slide power point show. A bit of a run-on/grammatically incorrect sentence, but my message is sincere.

Krampus, your description and photos of the latrines are producing a powerful memory! AC and flush toilets for WB training, the "pinnacle of scout leader training." And, of course, when the pro staff in Irving needs to get away from work for an off-site, where better to reconnect with scouting and the outdoors than a nice building with all of the amenities suited for one's station in life?

Krampus, this is truly the "sum of the whole matter."

I prefer to contribute directly to a council camp, and specific projects. "Raising X dollars to replace the roof on the mess hall." No problem, I'll write a check, happy to help. However.... Will I cut a check for council overhead? The palace-like HQ that some councils build unto themselves? Wages for admin staffs that cannot keep the simplest records straight, nor produce quality products in a timely manner, nor provide a website that has useful information and a registration process that works? Professional staff salary pyramid scheme? No thanks. I'm not a complete curmudgeon. When I was stationed at a base in the deep South, I was in a very small council. Small/old council hq building. A total of three people on council staff. Dedicated, hard-working, down to earth folks. I had no problem contributing to FOS in that council. Did so gladly. But for those other councils, with the fancy council hq, bloated staffs, superior/distant/hands off attitudes towards unit level vols, etc., it is a remarkable plan the BSA has devised: the pros incur expenses, and the vols are expected to pay for said expenses. With no input from the vols. Aside from financial.

Well said, Eagle94. True, there were people that went too far. Crossed the line from tough and challenging to abusive. Completely contrary to the OA Spirit.

Very true, Barry. The elections made a tough cut. Some good scouts never got selected. The ordeal was precisely that--an ordeal. Pushed to the brink, mentally and physically. The pride of wearing that brand new Ordeal sash was incredible, yet it was of the quiet and humble variety. Boasting and showing off was considered uncouth. The design of the lodge flap didn't matter much. Most were quite plain and rudimentary. Many lodges didn't change them for years and years. No matter. Quiet pride meant treasuring the privilege of wearing the flap. Did the call go out in the district or council for a dirty job? The OA was the first to show up. Didn't need to twist arms. Native American culture--an ongoing education into all aspects. With deep respect.

I've seen similar strong arm tactics. It backfires on the council every time. Amazing. Don't they teach communication skills in DE charm school and in WB? From here on out, I've decided to peg my FOS contributions directly to the tangibles the council provides to the units in the district. Total thus far: zero. Even considering the intangibles, still zero. Not sure how the council is going to meet pay roll, pay the mortgage, etc. The council did not consult the volunteers before building the budget and making financial commitments. Yet the volunteers are supposed to foot the bill? That's quite a business model.