desertrat77

I understand what it's like to wear a uniform when it's unpopular to be a scout, and at the same time, the uniform itself wasn't stylish. I'm speaking of the "new scouting" green shirt and pants that I wore from 74 - 81...as many will remember, several of those years it was very unpopular to wear a uniform of any kind, much less a scout uniform. That green uniform had all the charm and durability of pajamas after a few washings. Not worth much in the field. But I wore it by the book, with pride. Late seventies, I'm hired on summer camp staff. The staff shirt: from a huge sto

...and I know of no law, creed, or rule that says if you stand for good character, you have to dress like a frump.

We are all salesmen/women for the BSA movement. Scouts and scouters alike. What message does our uniform "sell?"

Beavah, Good thoughts...I'd also like to take another stab at the sports uniform theory. The football uniform identifies the kid as someone who has taken on an athletic challenge and that he's a competitor. Now back to the scout uniform. What does it say to the non-scout? It sure doesn't say that the wearer has taken on a challenge, like football. Irony in that it's the challenging outdoor activities that draw most scouts. Frankly, our uniform hasn't communicated "outdoors" since the early seventies. So non-scouts draw their own conclusions. If we wore

The scouts will wear a uniform they are proud of. Most kids have no problem wearing a football uniform and the like. They'll wear it to get a hamburger after the game. Not ashamed in the least. The problem would be solved if National fielded a uniform that actually looked good. And was functional in the field. Sorry, this new uniform looks dumpy. Silk screen flag? Doesn't Old Glory deserve better? Bellows pockets on the shirt? Are you kidding? Can't speak to functionality, haven't bought one. The ODL uniform isn't much better. It's perfectly designed for sitting in

I recommend helping the scout earn Eagle. True, he may not have been to all the meetings and such. But he's got work ethic and scout spirit, two important qualities.

I support full uniforms. But I do not support the BSA uniform police. The BSA uniform is a vital part of the scouting program. But it is a means to the end, not the end. BadenP's example of the young man with the old shirt and campaign hat is superb. Simply put, the scout did his best...isn't that what we are trying to teach? Camping, rocking climbing, uniforms, Eagle Scout attainment, etc., are not the prime objectives of the scouting movement. Is the scout doing his best? If so, let's move on. If not, mentorship and setting the example will be more than enoug

Kudu, well said and I cheerfully concede that you were the only one to post "hikeing chants." I've still got a few old scout songs tailored for hiking in my brain, but we only used them back in the day if we were bored silly and needed to knock out some dreary miles. Philmont is many things, but boring was not one of them! Like your idea about all future notes posted in "chant" format! There is much value in the old methods of scouting, that is certainly true.

Asichacker, Welcome to the forum! Interesting you got the impression that step parents aren't welcome...that's a shame because if there is a scouter sending that vibe to you, it's wrong. Kids are raised by aunts, grandparents, you name it, I think the key is the adult leadership appreciating that fact. The uniform: your points are well taken. But the uniform is a vital part of scouting. No coach would let the players wear what they want on the field...it's part of being a team member. Expense: yes, if you buy it all from the local scout shop or on line, it's pricey. B

Hiking chants/jodies for Philmont? No thanks! At work, when I'm running in formation with the same folks, over the same roads, at the same pace, jodies break up the tedium. They have their place. But I can't imagine calling jodies at Philmont. First, it would disrupt the primary reason for going to Philmont: unspoiled wilderness and wild life. Tranquility. It would also disrupt other crews' once-in-a-lifetime experience. Second, Philmont is physically tough. Even at 14 yrs of age those trails tested me. Spent stretches just trying to process oxygen and put one foot i

I too enjoyed Mr. Codger's story. I didn't see anything in his tale that suggested that bringing beer on a campout should serve as a standard for others to follow (Kant's Categorical Imperative is rumbling about somewhere). Rather, it's a great story of SM resourcefulness in defusing a very dangerous situation...well done Mr. SM, where ever you are! Plus, Codger brought some much needed humor to the proceedings. Thunderfox, I agree that more booze never helps. But I respectfully submit there are certain phrases in life that punch thru emotional turmoil: "Would you l

MRCTroop340, Some of us learned "Confidence, Leadership skill, communication skills" outside of WB. It is possible, you know. Desertrat77

I think Beavah summed it up well. Given the lengths that the troop and district have gone to nonconcur, I've got to echo a common theme: it has me wondering what the rest of the story is. I've been in some pretty messed up troops over the years. But thinking back to the most ham fisted, arbitrary, stubborn, my-way-or-the-highway SM I had as a youth, he never did anything to stop the progress of a good scout. One scout, a friend of mine, never got along with the SM. Both scout and SM made no bones about it: they could not tolerate each other. But there was no denying

As a UC in a council that does not have it's own camp, the troop I serve goes to a different camp each year. Lots to choose from in the local area. To summarize my past experiences in several different councils: if it at all possible, I'd recommend supporting your council's camp, as long as it is a good value and the staff does its dead-level best to provide a solid program. Benefits: Building tradition, shared memories, and keeping the camp alive. But, if the staff is indifferent, the program stale, or the council doesn't value your business (as in Horizon's case) I'd recommend

How about a demo and contest on how not to wear the uniform? Have a volunteer scout wear a uniform that has every mistake in the book...patches in the wrong place, etc. Several write ups, if you will. Then have the patrols compile a list of the errors they find. The patrol with the most findings wins. Afterwards, have the whole troops discuss the errors they found. The cool thing is you can incorporate some of the common errors you see each week into this little drill. The scouts will then make the association between the demo uniform errors and their own. This also w

Chopsticks are wonderful. Once I figured out how to use them! Finally got proficient went I was stationed in Korea. The secret: eat at places where no forks are available, the food is delicious, and arrive starving...amazing how quick I learned!

Well said, ASM 111...I agree that the oath and law are the cornerstones for all scouts, past and present, regardless of rank.

Scouts should also learn to live independent of technology, even for just a few days. It's vital they learn to live in the here and now, and to interact with the people they are standing near. They have the capability to do it. It's vital for the growth of mind and spirit to leave the electronics alone at times. At what point does a scout learn to enjoy his own thoughts, outside of the electronic realm? Appreciate the tranquility of the outdoors without endless beeping and other annoying artificial sounds? When does he realize that technology works for him, that he does not have

The OA is a great resource for outdoor training. It would help them fulfill the "service" ideal. True, there may be adult scouters who have an issue with being taught by youth. But if a few motivated scouts serve on the cadre, it would go a long way in showing new scouters the benefit of boy-led troops. Regarding the wish for scouting for adults: I hear you! This can be done, but more often than not, informally. Many moons ago, we ASMs would convene on our SM's property in the desert every now and again for a weekend off site. Not an official BSA event, no scouts. We'd coo

Great discussion...my apologies if someone already made this point but here it goes: How much effort is put forth these days--by volunteers and BSA--to establish new troops? New troops, with BSA tried and true methods, might be the best solution. As a scout, I read every old scouting book I could get ahold of. I recall literature for the old days that described how to start a troop from scratch. There are benefits in starting a new troop. Every scout is starting from square 1. So are the families. The scouts more than likely come from the same neighborhood, and the bo

The only thing I don't like about it is the character they chose as the aggressor in the scenario: "disgruntled Iraq war veteran." Appears the Border Patrol didn't want offend the real aggressors near our southern border...namely drug runners from various countries outside the US. Or the US citizens inside our border that facilitate the drug traffic. Either way, war veterans probably are the least likely folks to be a BP problem. At least one unit in AZ had the courage to not be PC when they picked their aggressor. The rest of the program, I say full steam ahead...the s

As an Eagle, I've never agreed with the all/nothing aspect of "once an Eagle...." The guys who stopped at Life or the other ranks are still brothers in Scouting. And had circumstances been a little different for them, many would have pressed on to Eagle. Many Scouters who didn't make Eagle are superb leaders, and are great citizens in their community...I have the utmost respect for them. In our quest to give status to Eagle, over the years I think that well-meaning folks have added extra touches to the Eagle rank, like the mantra in question, or the charge...where did that come

Congratulations...ya'll were obviously running the program the right way! Plus, we can't overlook each scout's work...well done to all!

Mr. John in KC, Sir, excellent question...let me start by amplifying my comment about the disparity of council effort that goes into WB v. basic training: Generally speaking, most basic scout leader training is an honest effort by the council...nuts and bolts, serves its intended purpose. Get your certificate and go home. Any camaraderie developed is usually based on the initiative of the attendees. Compare/contrast WB...first, there is a big council-level PR effort, and it goes from there, in style. The council and cadre do their absolute best to ensure the WB program is the

I agree with HICO Eagle. And based on the discussion thus far, I stand by my original position: WB is a club. Good comes from WB, yes. But when club members declare superior dedication and wisdom, well..... Wondering aloud...if councils put a fraction of the effort into basic scout leader training that they put into WB, we'd really have something....(This message has been edited by desertrat77)