cliffgolden

>>>>>>>>>> Well, if you had a written rule, no F bombs on a campout the conspirator would be correct. If the Troop instead handles things on a case by case basis, then the above is ok. >>>>>>>>>> Well said. Written rules can bind us to specified consequences without taking into account the circumstances of the situation. Some troops create a new rule every time they encounter a problem. It usually doesn't solve the problem. This is the same mindset that creates zero tolerence policies in school districts. It

On the subject of foul language, I remember a backpacking trip once. I had always impressed upon the older boys in particular that they needed to set a good example for the younger boys, so they always needed to watch their language. Also we needed to present a good image of Scouting to the community. They always abided and didn't use bad language. We were backpacking deep within the Cloud Peak Wilderness of Wyoming where moose are more plentiful than people. The language was getting pretty bad and I decided I needed to talk with them about it. During this discussion they res

I don't like a lot of rules. I work at a university so I deal with bureaucracy every day. I don't want a lot of bureaucracy weighing down our troop's program. I wrote something about troop by-laws in regard to discipline several years ago. Rather than repeat it, I'll offer you this link... http://usscouts.org/boyscouts/discipline.html I think the Scout Oath and Scout Law are great sources of guidance, for Scouts and leaders alike. The Scout Handbook is a remarkable book filled with valuable information for Scouts. Much of what they need to know is there. Other thin

Hi Ozemu, I agree with Bob White, you need to have more faith in your Scouts. I think they will suprise you. If they have a hard time getting started, they may want some ideas, just to prime the pump. You might look at what other troops do and have some things available to share with them. Be very careful not to be forcing anything on them. Step back, take a deep breath, and let the plan come from them. Our troop calendar is at... http://www.geocities.com/cliffgolden/calendar05.html That calendar was planned at our Patrol Leaders Retreat by our boys. T

I think the troop should have the final say in who participates in "any given activity". We have a Patrol Leaders Retreat so the boys can plan their program, not all Scouts are allowed to attend. Too many adults might unduly influence the boys. We want the boys' plan, not the parents' plan. I think any restriction of activities should be done for a valid reason. Jamborees, High Adventure, Patrol Leaders Council Retreats, etc. That should be up to the troop to make that decision based on the individual activity in question, and sometimes the adults in question. If you ha

From the Guide to Safe Scouting: "All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders." This is true to a point. If a parent arrived at an activity intoxicated, I would certainly ask him to leave. If he/she were abusive toward boys, that parent would not be allowed on our troop activities. There are certainly exceptions to the rule. A parent has the right to spend time with their child, but they don't have the right to spend time with other people's children. When you allow parents on activities, you are also providing them access to other

I believe one of the strengths of Scouting is that it provides some flexibility. Chartered Partners often use Scouting as an outreach to the community. Scouting provides some lattitude in how their program is delivered. Sometimes it can lead to problems when the individual troop takes things to an extreme. In the examples you provide, 1) How the Uniform method is implemented will vary between troops. The BSA does have certain rules, and as long as you are not violating those rules, you are OK. I don't agree with the troop in the example you've cited, but that's only my opin

High Adventure is more rigorous than regular Scouting activities and may require some qualifying restrictions. For trips that are considered strenuous or trips that require advanced skills, we ask all participants to attend special training events for physical conditioning and/or skills development. This would apply to all participants, youth and adult. It is important for all members of the group to have the necessary skills and physical ability to safely complete the high adventure. If grandpa can successfully accomplish those training requirements, then I'd welcome him to th

Our district used CITO day in conjunction with the Spring Camporee. Kishwaukee District held their Spring Camporee this past weekend, April 15-17 at Three Fires Scout Ranch near Rochelle, Illinois. The program was "geo-caching". Our Camporee dates coincided with the 3rd Annual International CITO Day. http://www.cacheintrashout.org/ The district assembled 24 gps units, one for each patrol to use. Patrols spent the day searching for 100 caches (many film cannister size), hidden on 536 acres of scattered woodland, marshland, and grass meadows. Patrols were also given gar

I live in a city of about 40,000. I submit articles to the local papers. They have been very cooperative in printing them. We just had a full-page article on our winter activities published Easter Sunday March 27th. We had 5 full-page stories last year. You can link to them at... www.troop33dekalb.org It's good to have positive press in the paper for the general public to read. Also it's great for our Scouts and parents, alumni, and our sponsor to read about what we do. Newspapers are businesses. If you can provide them free copy and photos, it to their benefit to use

>>>>>>>>> Hi Cliff! I will try to look up your article! Is it on line? >>>>>>>>> Sorry John, I haven't been monitoring this forum or I would have responded sooner. No, they don't have their articles online. The article was from our 2003 southwest trip in Utah-Nevada-Arizona and Mexico, not last summer's trip where we met you. Most of the article was about Mexico and our misadventures there, i.e. lost wallet, kayaking into a school of jellyfish, medical emergency, fun at a military checkpoint, etc., etc. I will be

I must echo John's sentiments. I do love Philmont, I really do... ...but, at Philmont you choose your itinerary from a book, they do all the logistical planning; routing, water sources, menu planning, equipment, etc., etc. for you. It is a canned program. It's a little like painting by number. You do their predetermined design and don't dare go outside the lines. For a troop that has very little experience and wants something safe, maybe it's a good way to go. Philmont provides a great safety net. If you want to be more adventurous, think outside the box, l

Our Hawaii trip took place in June 2004 and lasted 11 days at a cost of $1150 inclusive of all expenses. The boys only needed souvenir money, everything else was included. We flew out of Chicago via ATA (America Trans Air) stopping briefly in San Fransisco going out and L.A. coming back. We stayed at a military housing community center for 3 nights, Camp Pupakea 2 nights, and Camp Mahulia 3 nights, a hotel in Waikiki 1 night, and our last night on the airplane. Camp Pupakea (Aloha Council BSA) http://www.alohacouncilbsa.org/ Camp Mahulia (Maui County Council BSA) http:

At our troop meeting last night the boys suggested cancelling our spring trip to Florida and use the money instead for the tsunami disaster. I suggested that we keep our Florida trip intact and maybe consider some additional action to help the tsunami victims. There will be needs in both places for quite some time. Talking to a person in Florida, he says much of the private damage has been repaired, but many public areas still need to be cleaned up. We plan to buddy up with a Florida unit to help clean up a public area. Southeast Asia mostly needs dollars at this point. Does

We approach merit badges in a variety of ways. Summer camp is one option open to boys. We also attend a couple MB universities each year. We usually don't do MBs at troop meetings, we mostly do activity planning, etc., but maybe we'll do a couple MB classes per year. We have some merit badge opportunities at campouts a couple times per year. We also have boys earn MBs through individual counseling from a list of approved counselors. High adventure does not usually involve advancement work, neither do most camping trips. Much of our program doesn't involve getting b

We have a PLC Retreat twice for planning purposes. The first is for high adventure planning, the second for the regular weekend programs. We survey what the boys are interested in and have each patrol do their own planning conferences. At the troop PLC retreat each patrol leader should have a plan of what his patrol proposes for the year. Like others have mentioned, we have a catalog of past high adventure trips, we use a proposal form so anyone can propose a trip, and the boys discuss and hash out their ideas to come to some form of concensus. We usually do a couple h

cliffgolden writes: You admit there is no legal fight here. Merlyn responds: "No, I haven't. While not an obvious win like removing public schools as chartering orgs, I think there are some arguments that might win. From what some United Ways have said, some BSA councils don't have separate bank accounts for their traditional program vs. their L4L programs; that's an argument against any public funding of L4L." --end quote-- I can't comment on the office practices of some BSA councils. There are indeed some that leave much to be desired. These reports sound rather spotty a

Merlyn writes... "I'd tell them to get lost. They have no ethics to teach." You have a right to your opinion. That's all it is though, an opinion. One which most would view as harsh and unjust. You admit there is no legal fight here. That was my concern. Your crusade against the BSA is based on your perceived violations of Constitutional rights. Public funding toward the Learning for Life program is legal. The BSA exists to provide a positive program for youth that includes a belief in a supreme being. Its primary purpose is not to discriminate against atheists. Th

Merlyn said... "Learning for Life teaching ethics to atheist students while being a wholly-owned subsidiary of an organization that denigrates atheists, etc, etc are still problems even after all government chartered BSA units are gone." I understand your points about government agencies sponsoring BSA units, but Learning for Life as a program does not discriminate, so what is your problem with it? Do you see a legal issue somewhere here? I just don't see your point. Even when the BSA creates a non-discriminatory program open to atheists, you're still not satisfied. What

>>>>>Merlyn writes I didn't ask you to "relate", I asked you how good a youth program would have to be in order for you to turn a blind eye to blatant discrimination against Jews. >>>>> If a Catholic Chapel on a military base offered a youth program for the children of their parish, I would have no problem with that. Although it wouldn't be serving Jewish children, or Protestant children for that matter, I wouldn't view it necessarily as discrimination against anyone. I would see it as serving the needs of a specific group. If a school want

>>>>>cliffgolden writes: If those weren't your only two choices, what would you rather do? >>>>> >>>>>Merlyn writes Realistically, the two choices are more along the lines of the BSA either dropping their discriminatory membership requirements, or losing all government sponsorship. I'd prefer the former, but it may well end up being the latter. Since the BSA isn't changing, it's time to go after the government sponsorship using legal action, since the government can't practice such discrimination. >>>>> You are no

>>>>Eagledad writes>>>>> If you were personally given the ability to kill the BSA completely or leave it alone as it is presently, what would choose? >>>>>>>> >>>>>Merlyn responds>>>>> If those are my ONLY to choices, I'd have to kill it, because currently the federal and state governments are violating the rights of atheists by having government agencies run Boy Scout units that unlawfully practice religious discrimination, which is unconstitutional. Religious civil rights are too important to violate

Back in the good old days, our troop used to go to Philmont every other year. That fizzled as treks became harder to come by. Our last visit was in 1995. There is a whole world outside Philmont for you to explore. There is a long list of council sponsored high adventure programs, many of which have been mentioned in previous posts. There is also the option of doing a troop sponsored program, where your PLC makes the plan. It requires much more time and effort in planning, but is also far less expensive. I also think the lessons learned can be much greater. The options becom

>>>>>dan posted>>> A poster (one that I usually agree with) posted that you should never have a scout tent by himself. I do not agree with this statement. >>>>>>>> I agree with you Dan. We usually have 2 boys to a tent. If we have an odd number we will sometimes have 3 in a tent. If we have a boy who wants a tent by himself, that's usually not a problem either. I normally always sleep in a tent alone. Sound carries very well between tents (sometimes too well). I see no safety issue, unless a boy has a medical condition or

My dad was playing basketball with friends at his high school gym on that Sunday. He quit high school when he turned 17 so he could join the Navy. He was in 4 years, then later called back for Korea. This past summer our troop visited Hawaii. Our first program activity was to visit the U.S.S. Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor. It's a visit the boys will always remember. The boys have seen the movies, the recent film with Ben Affleck, and the older one, Tora! Tora! Tora! December 7, 1941 was a defining moment in our history that ultimately changed the world. It's a painfu