acco40

First, lets use the following terms: Flag Bearer, Color Guard and Color Guard Commander. Flag Bearer - holds the flag, remains silent (does not say Pledge of Allegiance nor sing the National Anthem). Color Guard - They "guard the honor" of the flag and make sure it does not touch the ground. They either stand behind the flag bearer or to the side. They stand silent at attention and do not repeat the Pledge nor sing the Anthem. Color Guard Commander - The designated Scout who calls out the parts of the ceremony. The Commander should stand in front or to the side of the audience. See: http://www.scouting.org/media/flag/ and BSA publication 33188A - Your Flag for more information.

They were on the court of seven justices who unanimously decided last year that an Iowa law restricting marriage to one man and one woman violated the state's constitution. I am not a scholar wrt the Iowa constitution. But, I'm a firm believer that judges should interpret laws wrt to their constitutionality, not there popularity. If the Iowa court were unanimous in their decision, maybe it was the correct, albeit unpopular, decision? I like the fact that supreme court justices are immune to the vagaries of the popular vote.

Okay, now Scoutfish, the question is what is a Scouter to do going forward? Ignore the 5% content in the G2SS that he feels are just PC or let the 7th point of the Scout Law dictate their behavior?

Conservative? Liberal? Who defines these terms? If conservatives believe in less governmental regulation then they assuredly would be against regulating abortion and regulating the use of marijuana. Yet, those are considered liberal positions. Why? I deplore these labels. Let's discuss the issues and not practice what the news media entertainers do by telling folks what "liberals" believe and what "conservatives" believe. Citizens of the US are considered to be very traditional and have more sexual "hang-ups", compared to the remainder of the world. Yet, in the U.S.A, our views on homosexual beings and practices have changed from years past. These have been influenced by the HIV/AIDS epidemic, growth in media outlets, violent reactions to openly gay folk (i.e. Matthew Sheppard, et. al.), movies, etc. Time will tell if this is "enlightenment" or further travel down the "road to ruin." Now, how would the BSA change if homosexuals were permitted to participate? Well, if the Scout Oath, Scout Law and Declaration of Religious Principle, methods, aims, G2SS, YPT, etc. remained the same - not much. By its own admission, the BSA position on homosexuality has nothing to do with safety, pedophilia, etc.(This message has been edited by acco40)

A Scoutmaster serves the same function - they screen candidate for SPL, PL etc.

Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf and Bear dens is not allowed. Tiger Cubs may attend pack overnighters. Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts can attend resident camps operating under BSA National Camping School trained leadership and managed by the council. A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips. Pack Overnighters These are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved locations (councils use Pack Overnighter Site Approval Form, No. 13-508). If nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health and safety and youth protection guidelines apply. In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult. At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162) to properly understand the importance of program intent, youth protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued locally. Packs use Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426. Two-deep leadership Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. (Den meetings are not trips or outings so two deep leadership is NOT required - something many are mistaken about.) There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required. Coed overnight activities, even those including parent and child, require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA.

I took Wood Badge. I was the only one in my troop to take it. To be perfectly honest, my wife signed me up. Did I start hanging with a different crowd? No. Did I wear my Wood Badge regalia to troop events? No. However, I did notice about 1/3 of the folks could care less or possibly were not even aware I had completed my ticket or taken the course, about 1/3 had a positive reaction and congratulated me, and about 1/3 had a negative response - so you think you're better than us now? I see it in the workplace at my job wrt Ph.Ds. Some respect them, some don't give a damn one way or the other and others go out of their way to criticize them. In my department, I have about 5 Ph.D. folks - some are great, some not so great and some fairly lacking wrt work performance. Same with Wood Badge.

Kudu - I absolutely agree - laser tag is no more harmful that pointing a television remote a at a person. Kudu - The Guide to Safe Scoutings prohibition against laser tag is based on what feminists might consider to be politically correct values for boys. It is NOT based on keeping Scouts free from real danger. But, that was not the question. The question was, is laser tag allowed? The answer is no, it is not. The BSA is worried about a few things - being to closely associated with the military/armed services and also "guns" - hunting, killing of furry creatures (we can still fish - for now). There are folks who are strident against both of these and to appease them (i.e. boost membership) my guess is that the BSA doesn't want to appear to closely aligned with either the "pro" or "anti" side on these issues.

Thank you! I stand corrected.

For the slow folks again: G2SS: Pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye or lasers) at any individual is unauthorized. So one should not point a laser at an individual in the BSA. Doesn't matter if the laser device looks like an AK-47, M 16, a ball point pen, a giant dildo, Barbies head with lasers shooting out her eyes or in the words of Mr. Powers, sharks with friggin laser beams - if the intent is to point them at individuals, the BSA states that it is not authorized.

G2SS: Pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye or lasers) at any individual is unauthorized. The Boy Scouts of America thanks our 2010 National Scout Jamboree corporate sponsors for their support of Scouting - EMPIRE PAINTBALL, REMINGTON, one moment, one shot! Got to love big business!

Again, taking the training would not hurt. However, I would suggest you would have a better experience if you took the course as a SA. The course has no benefit to a Cubmaster. It does provide some benefit to the parent of a Boy Scout. So depending on your perspective, make your choice.

I was lucky. It took the WB21C course the first time it was offered. So October Sky (released early 1999) and Remember the Titans (released Fall 2000) were new to DVDs and the cable outlets. Having neither a DVD player, cable or attending many movies at that time, they were new to me and enjoyable to watch and discuss. Now, having seen each numerous times on cable, I may not have had the same response if I was just taking WB now.

Part of the purpose of Wood Badge is to focus on leadership skills, not outdoor skills. As many posters have stated, they have a big beef with that. It should also inspire Scouters and strengthen their commitment to Scouting by sharing in an overall inspirational experience. Now, a well run Wood Badge course doesn't have a singular leader, Wood Badgers vs. non-Wood Badgers mentality, etc. So, while I don't question that fact that you had a bad experience, that bad experience may be due to a poorly run course. Think of it this way, most high schools and universities support cheer leaders for their athletic teams. Why? To raise school spirit, provide fun and make for a pleasant experience. Does that project cultish behavior in your eyes?

Jerry Seinfeld: I'm not gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that. In many a subsequent episode, the "not that there's anything wrong with that" phrase was used repeatedly on a host of topics. ScoutBox:I myself don't have a problem with a Homosexual being a member, leader or whatever in the BSA. Sorry, for the obtuse reference. For all of those Scoutmaster's - what has been or would be your response if a Scout simply asked you if being a homosexual was wrong? I think the worst response to that question would be something like -"I'm not allowed to discuss that with you, go ask your mother" or something to that effect. Years before the current PSA, I reprimanded Scouts for using the "that's so gay" and "you're so gay" references wrt "lameness." Was I in error in placing my values on the Scouts on this issue?

Yes 30 sq ft of tent space per person is required by many BSA summer (resident) camps (see infoscouter's post). Funny thing, I was told during training that it was a state (Michigan) law but I doubt it and have not confirmed it either way.

Okay Mr. Seinfeld. Exactly what do you mean by "Sex being a part of the BSA"? The BSA restricts membership based on sex - both gender and certains acts if public. You are correct, that the teaching of sex education is not in our (Scouter's) job description however, as a MBC for Personal Fitness - the fact that certain diseases are contracted via sexual activities are part of "my" curriculum (and the MB book). Also, I think it is important that we don't treat the subject as some mysterious "not to be talked about, no words should ever be spoken" subject because that may warp the minds of the boys too. There is a balance. It was rare that a Scout brought up the topic to me when I was a Scoutmaster but it did surface a few times. The way I handled it was to not make a big deal of it, give basic matter of fact responses and lead them back to their families for further discussion.

American parents are strange beasts indeed. We (the BSA via Scouters and the program in general) teach their sons about good nutrition - that is not over stepping their parental responsibilities. We teach their sons about the importance of physical fitness - that is not over stepping their parental responsibilities. We teach their sons basic first aid training - that is not over stepping their parental responsibilities. We teach their sons about the importance of physical fitness - that is not over stepping their parental responsibilities. We teach their sons about how to camp out in the great outdoors - that is not over stepping their parental responsibilities. We teach their sons about basic hygiene - that is not over stepping their parental responsibilities. We teach their sons about knots, citizenship and a myriad of merit badge topics - that is not over stepping their parental responsibilities. We teach their sons about mental health and reverence- uh oh, parents are quiet but some are getting a little bit queasy. We teach their sons about youth protection - and boom parents put their foot down. How did youth protection somehow get warped into the idea that we are providing "sex education" to our youth?

There must be a way to combine that quote with the popular "lamp post skit" of BSA fame. Scouter is too lazy to utilize BSA resources or get training so instead he utilizes a Scout forum. He is not really looking for "answers" but confirmation for his already formed beliefs. So instead of getting his questions answered by an authorative source (BSA resources and trainers - i.e. "up the street"), he instead goes to where the light is brighter and where it may stroke his ego - the forum right under the lamp post! Reference:He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang Scout Skit 1st Scout comes out, holds hand up with flashlight turned on and aimed at the floor (lights dimmed) 2nd Scout comes out, looking all around 3rd Scout comes out, asks them "what are you doing?" 2nd Scout replies "I'm looking for my dollar that I lost, will you help me? " 3rd "sure" (starts looking all around ... nth Scout comes out, asks the 2nd "what are all of you doing?" 2nd Scout replies "I'm looking for my dollar that I lost, will you help me? " nth "sure, where did you loose it?" 2nd "up the street" (points away) nth "well then, why are you looking here?" 2nd "the light is much better over here!" (This message has been edited by acco40)

In the BSA program the focus should be on the patrol, not the troop. So, patrol gear, patrol outings, etc. That way, the size is somewhat, although not entirely, irrelevant.

The Scoutmaster Handbook depicts an organizational structure for both "large" and "small" troops. For both, the SPL and ASPL are NOT part of a patrol. Think of it this way. A patrol has a patrol leader. The SPL becomes a "member" of that patrol. Who is now leading the patrol? The patrol leader leads the SPL? The SPL acts as the defacto patrol leader?

Keeping in line with the new BSA intiatives . . . One "position" that all are overlooking (because it is highly unlikely but still possible) is for the young man to be a Scout parent.

Warm bodies are not encouraged to sit on EBORs. Non-Scouters who have knowledge about the BSA program may serve on EBORs.

I disagree. Local councils/districts sometimes do look at signatures. Also, the national council does look at dates for all ranks (during an Eagle application review). Why put that at risk by having parents who may not be well versed in the process?

So, Johnny turns 16 and has submitted his paperwork to the national council. They note that on his advancement report for 1st Class, the BOR members were not registered scouters and deny his application. Who is at fault? Who failed this Scout? Was cutting corners a good idea?