johnsch322

How I have been feeling about so much of what people post: "People say believe half of what you see.Oh, and none of what you hear.Whoa, I jus' can't help being confused.If it's true please tell me dear. I heard it thru the grapevine"

Since most scouters do not attain the rank of Eagle Scout (Eagle Scouts are older scouts and abuse victims tend to younger) and the fact that most victims withdraw from scouting old Eagle Scouts (exception @ThenNow) would tend not to be abuse victims. But how were they approached...it couldn't have been thru the perversion files since victims names were redacted. Do you know for a fact if they were abused or not? If they were not abused are you saying someone (who) was trying to have them file false claims?

Here is a fact 82,500 claims. Nobody in this forum has the right or the knowledge to discount not one of these claims (including myself). Not one of them to my knowledge has been discounted in any type of court of law. I have my suspicions that some are false but I have no proof of fact. Yet some people on this forum who want or tout facts are quick to discount this number and are critical of anyone who chooses to believe based on other studies this number could be quite higher. BSA was founded in 1910 and it would be quite reasonable and factual to say the majority of those who had been abused in the first 30 years are dead. How many would that be? Statistically how many victims would have died off between the ages of 40 to 80? I posted a few months ago a number using mortality rates for men at certain ages based done year that abuse happened by the claims and the number was amazingly higher than 82,500.

I believe that the number of 82k is low and here is why. My abuser per the perversion files molested at least 11 boys. When looking at the claims I am the only claimant on the local council. What happened to the at least 10 others? In the highest number of years statistically a large percentage of men have died. They aren’t counted. The reason this matters is so that some people can’t just say oh millions have been scouts and only a minuscule amount have been abused and then trumpet oh look how good a job the BSA does or has done.

Well that predates Tim Kosnoff. And the name "perversion files" or "P files" pretty much says that the BSA knew what they had in their ranks.

I am pretty sure the BSA would not have named it the "perversion files" instead they called it something that would was more innocuous the "IVF". As soon as one report had to do with the abuse of boys it became perverted on it's own. I am sure you do know that it wasn't Tim Kosnoff who thru the Oregon Supreme Court had the BSA release the IVF files. It was an attorney named Kelly Clark who is now deceased. Also it was the media who named them the "perversion files" and that happened immediately. What would you say would not be onerous and extreme. The victim in the case in Oregon was awarded 18.5 million. Any time that a judgement is rendered it can always be appealed if it is excessive.

What do you mean by this? Could you expound please?

He has to be the most interesting figure in the three ring circus.

This is a little disappointing to read as it was @mrjeff who started this thread. As was said if you want to post your opinion be ready to hear the other side. Hasn't history taught us anything?

Gay scoutmasters are not attracted to young boys...period! Gay men do not seek out straight men. Lesbians are still girls/women and I know this because my daughter is lesbian and every inch a girl and acts like a girl.

It appears that you are homophobic and you have that right. I think BSA and these forums might be better off without your participation and some of the old sad opinions.

In California before a claim can be filed in court for sexual abuse claimants above a certain age must have a psychiatrist interview and certify that in their opinion that there was sexual abuse. I forget what age that is but I did have to go thru that procedure. I believe once the psychiatrists report is written that by itself is taken to a judge. I can tell you for a fact that in my case the interview lasted for about an hour and was not just for rubber stamping purposes. I am sure that something similar would weed out many claimants in the bankruptcy.

John accepts the blame.

My time frame would be 30 to 60 years ago and yes I am asking about CSA trauma.

Thank you for your answer but my question is about the past. Did BSA offer help the victims as BSA or local council/troops became aware of the incidents? If you read the LA Times article they said that at the time of publication there were at least 50 incidences of leaders coming back after expulsion.

What keeps coming back to haunt me is that very little if anything was ever done for the victims. There was a crappy system for trying to keep abusers from reentering (not always though) they had insurance in case they were sued but so far I can see nothing for the victims. I have heard about families leaving town. Scouters continuing on but for the most part it seems like the victims were put to the curb as if they were morning trash. Has anyone heard, seen or read where a victim was given any voluntary help with his trauma?

It is amazing what transpired in the BSA.

Yes. My thinking over the last few days has been was there any formal written instructions from the BSA on how to handle abuse cases once the troop became aware of them. Also was there anything written on how to help the victims?

Wether he was paid or unpaid is immaterial to the situation. He worked for the BSA. In fact as an ASM he had authority over others and more than likely used that authority in the course of the abuse.

My opinion: At the very least this is a very good case for having no statute of limitations for child molestation in both the criminal and civil sides of law. Who was really looking out for the two boys? Were the parents thinking about the embarrassment or shame for the children or themselves? Who was thinking about the long term ramifications of their mental health, the anguish and mental torture they more than likely have had to endure? Also the monetary cost of treatment. The ASM who committed crime did not have to answer for it. How many more youth did he abuse? How many more will he abuse? If it happened in the early eighties it was more than likely not until their 30's did the worst of the mental health issues arise. As for compensation thru the Bankruptcy I vote very much for just compensation. The abuse happened when the 2 were 10 and in the care of the Troop/Local Council/Chartered Organization/BSA National. The ASM was an employee of the BSA which makes the BSA responsible for his actions whether anyone could have predicted it or not.

I would be interested to hear others opinion on this...

Were these policies written as national policy or was it just something that was general knowledge? If this written policy do you know where the policy manual was written and is there historical evidence?

No need to apologize....I am not immune to go off myself. The point I was trying to make was there may not have been YP if pressure had not been exerted upon the BSA. I was a scout in the 60's and I am not sure what exactly was the formal procedure for reporting was then.

If they are part of 82,000 do you believe they should be compensated for their abuse?

In this situation you did the correct thing by calling the police but were the two boys offered paid for counseling/therapy to help them overcome the trauma that they endured? I wonder if they are now part of the 82,000 claimants? I also wonder how many other young boys did he abuse in and out of the BSA? Unfortunately too often the acts were not interrupted and when they did come to light the abusers were not reported to the authorities. In my personal situation at least 11 boys were suspected or known to have been abused but for some reason no one ever asked me. I would like to add one more thing. Were the other scouters in the troop individually and privately asked if this ASM had ever done something similar to them? It would have been rare that the ASM was caught the first time. Was all of the parents of the scouts in that troop made aware of what had happened? Was the ASM ever involved with another troop before this incident and or did he have access to young boys from other troops?